I'm not sure what he was trying to point out either  

 

OMG this is still going on...

I think you should stick to StarTrek Sto, as you seem to confuse FACTS defined by the writers of the story and Hasbro with your opinion.

 

I'm confusing nothing.

What the writers or any creator states outside of the narrative is not canon.

Maybe you should stick to the issues in debate instead of trying to pass personal assessments and judgments.

 

In that case, then Beast Wars should not be included in anything G1 as it was outside the narrative of the G1 cannon and RETCONNED into it.

 

Not exactly.

Beast Wars was a squeal, it starts after g1 and then enters the past of G1.

The show contains plenty of refrances to establish it as a squeal, but the real question is which G1 is it really connected to?

 

Both'ish... combination of parts of the comics and the American cartoon. This has been stated already in this thread along with the FACT that primal never held the Matrix of Leadership. And according to Hasbro and people I know who worked at mainframe, the thing we see is a spark container, nothing more.

 

When that episode aired did anyone think it was not the matrix? the dialoge and the fact that his spark is in a matrix shaped container sure makes it it seem like it was. granted it would seem like thats not the case.

 

It was over half my lifetime ago but I think I just assumed it was a spark container as I didn't really know the ins and outs of the G1 series, only the G2 episodes replays I saw a few year before.

 

And again, WHAT was the problem that the 3H comics felt they just had to fix? And seriously, considering we're still having this debate, can we subjectively say it was a good solution?

 

Impossible to say, as I only saw it for the first time last year. By that time I was already aware that it wasn't the Autobot Matrix of Leadership. I can see how it can confuse some people though, it does look almost exactly like it.

 

So no Autobot leader had the Matrix in TF Masterforce, Victory, Beast Wars Neo and Beast Wars II? It merged with Vector Sigma in Headmasters when Optimus sacrificed himself?

 

No, Rodimus Prime kept it and took it within him on the journey through space he departed on part-way into Headmasters. It wasn't seen again until the Generation 2 storyline, at which point Optimus had it again, which would suggest that Hot Rod returned to Optimus when he was reborn as Star Convoy.

 

Optimus Prime came back again?? he died twice once in the movie and 2nd in Headmasters

 

Yes. It was a subject of massive confusion and debate. Because while it's SHAPED like the Matrix... it's his frickin' SPARK. It's not the blue crystal that is the Matrix. It's just... NOT IT. It's his spark! You have to actively redefine what the physical Matrix of Leadership object IS in order to say that that's what it is! So, yeah, EVERYONE was confused. The whole reason 3H did what they did in their comics was to EXPLAIN this confusion, and to say "Hey, yes, here's the Matrix, the way it's actually supposed to be. That thing that looked like his spark actually was just his spark. They're separate things. This makes sense now. Stop debating it."

 

Yes, and then four years later, in the "Return of Convoy" series, the Autobots used the power of the Zodiac to bring him back to life as Star Convoy.

 

The consciousness of all previous Autobot leaders that have carried the Matrix are contained within the Matrix. Wouldn't it be easier (and make more sense) to suggest that Optimus' spark merged with the blue energy seen within the Matrix when it was handed down to him?

Although. . .

Crap. I can't believe I'm about to say this and shoot a hole in my own theory. Ugh. I GUESS there's that one episode where Rodimus loses the Matrix to Scourge. If his spark were merged with the Matrix. . . ugh. . . he would've died. But instead he reverts to Hot Rod.

Goddammit.

I still think the 3H comic unnecessarily complicates the matter rather than providing a simpler solution. A spark holder that looks identical to the Matrix sits in place while the ACTUAL Matrix is in a hidden compartment beneath it. Is Optimus' body even thick enough to hold all that?? No wonder he needs a backpack.
And again, where was the spark holder during every other scene in G1 where Primes' chest is open? Wouldn't Optimus have to constantly take his spark holder out first and then open the secret compartment to get to the Matrix? It's just unneeded excess baggage and doesn't really do anything to add to the story or the mythos.

If I were writing the 3H comic, I would've just said that yeah, his spark had merged with the Matrix energy. They're one and the same now. Why didn't Rodimus die when Scourge took the Matrix? Well uh. . . because he's a young Prime and didn't merge his spark with the Matrix yet. Yeah. *looks shifty* Yeah!

 

Which places it squarely in neither universe.

I have yet to see anyone cite any comment from Hasbro, not that it would really change anything.

Nothing the creators or writers say outside the narrative is canon.

Exactly.

If it was clearly a "spark holder" there wouldnt have been a need for a fix.

thats a good question as well

 

Given what was shown in Beast Wars was a spark container where the Matrix of Leadership is supposed to be, the problem becomes, where then is the Matrix of Leadership? That's what the comic decided to answer by revealing a second chamber containing the Matrix underneath the chamber with his spark.

 

I look at it this way. Primes sparks was already entering the Matrix, according to Rhinox. So at the point when Optimus Primal opened up Primes body to retrieve the spark, it was literally inside of the Matrix container (probably on its way to the Allspark) as Prime essentially was dying. Wherever the crystal disappeared to at that point is a mystery.

Since Rhinox mentioned the Matrix and we saw an object strongly resembling the Matrix (sans the color) we can all assume it was the Matrix.

What ever the writers has originally intended did not properly translate into the story.

This whole BS about Primes spark chamber looking like the Matrix is just a silly excuse to make up for their mistake. Whatever.

Transformers has a whole history of ridiculous continuity mistakes; obsessing whether that was the Matrix, or Primes spark chamber is irrelevant.

Interpret that scene as you wish. Use your brains and formulate your own answers.

 

And above all, don't listen to 3H. They also thought they'd do the fans a favor by killing off Daniel and Wheelie with an army of Nightbird drones. They're fanwank central.