BW Matrix+Cybertron

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by Wheeljack30, Apr 9, 2011.

  1. Wheeljack30

    Wheeljack30 Banned

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    What i dont understand is that in Beast Wars and Beast Machines Cybertron exists but how is that possible when Cybertron was exploded and destroyed in Headmasters? And Optimus Primal does he holds the Matrix Of leadership in Beast Wars? And how about Beast Machines when he was reformated by the oracle does he still had it in him? And he could of had warnings from the Matrix that he was going to get reformated

    Thank you
     
  2. Thundershot

    Thundershot The guy with 28 Sweeps

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    Beast Wars is a continuation of the US G1 series (mostly cartoon, but with some comic elements). Heck, the Plasma Energy Chamber from Rebirth is even in Beast Machines. So the Japanese series' don't factor into it.
     
  3. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    Wasn't Cybertron rebuilt, good as new, at the end of the Japanese continuity?
     
  4. sto_vo_kor_2000

    sto_vo_kor_2000 Banned

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    Headmasters is a seprate continuity/universe.

    The Beast Era is connected to the Hasbro G1 Universe, not Takaras.

    only in a 2 part episode

    no
     
  5. Wheeljack30

    Wheeljack30 Banned

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    Then where did the Matrix go during Beast Machines
     
  6. sto_vo_kor_2000

    sto_vo_kor_2000 Banned

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    More then likely exactly where it was left at the end of G1, in side Vector Sigma.

    Remember, Primal and the others are from Cybertrons future, they traveled to Earth's past.

    In the 2 parter, Primal take the matrix so that Optimus Primes life can be saved, when the mission was over, he put the Matrix back in Primes body.

    You know, if you just watch the episodes these questions answer them self's.
     
  7. Karhukjnsi

    Karhukjnsi Universal Wrestler

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    Actually, Optimus Primal never had the Matrix, that container that looked like the Matrix was the chamber for Optimus Prime's spark (his "Spark Holder"), with the real Matrix hidden underneath in Prime.

    Matrix of Leadership - Transformers Wiki
     
  8. sto_vo_kor_2000

    sto_vo_kor_2000 Banned

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    You use the word "actually" but in this context the word actually dosent apply.

    The fact of the matter is the shows creators never intended for us to think it was the Matrix.

    The thought the devise in Primes chest was a "spark holder".

    They didnt do the research.

    But regardless of what was intended by the writters, what was animated was the Matrix.

    Those comics tried to fix the mistake made.
     
  9. Karhukjnsi

    Karhukjnsi Universal Wrestler

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    So my point still stands that "Primal actually never had the Matrix".

    Therefore, in context.
     
  10. sto_vo_kor_2000

    sto_vo_kor_2000 Banned

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    No, your point fell.[no offense intended]

    Because writer intent is irrelevant when what was shown or stated differed from what they wanted.

    "Primal actually had the Matrix" in his hands.

    Writer intent is not canon.
     
  11. Karhukjnsi

    Karhukjnsi Universal Wrestler

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    But canon is canon, as in "Primeval Dawn". Optimus Primal held an object that LOOKS like the Matrix, written as a Spark Holder, never described in-show as the Matrix, in later official fiction, canonically reveals that WASN'T the Matrix. Therefore, NOT the Matrix. Regardless of what errors may have occurred in the development of the episode, canon is canon, even in a tie-in comic.
     
  12. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Dry built

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    Indeed. Also the fact that he never actually carries it in his body at all, anyway. He's only shown carrying Prime's spark (which is clearly a Transformer spark and not the crystal from the Matrix or anything) and described as doing so. The container just falls to the floor. He never bore the matrix or even the spark holder, he held onto Prime's spark so Prime wouldn't die. Optimus Primal never came into contact with the Matrix of Leadership.

    Wherever Prime went after G1.
     
  13. sto_vo_kor_2000

    sto_vo_kor_2000 Banned

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    And, one canon can not over write an other canon.
    No, Optimus Primal held the Matrix, althou not written as, but was animated as the Matrix.

    As for how it was described.....it never was, but Rinox did mention that Primes spark contained The Matrix, so in a sence it was mentioned.

    What did you see,??what was animated??

    Regardless of what mistakes were made, and what they later wrote to try to fix the mistake, what was shown was the Matrix.

    Therefore, it WAS the Matrix
    And as I stated, one canon can not over write an other.In other words, whats done in one medium can not over write what was shown in an other.

    What you got here is yet an other "branch off" point.
     
  14. sto_vo_kor_2000

    sto_vo_kor_2000 Banned

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    I never said it was in his body.
     
  15. ronin0510

    ronin0510 Well-Known Member

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    But thats like saying an animation error is canon....
     
  16. Auto Morph

    Auto Morph Gimmick Bot

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    This whole thing is further muddied by 'The Matrix' where Transformers sparks go after they die. Not to be confused with the Autobot Matrix.

    I agree that it doesn't help that the Beast Wars cartoon showed Prime's spark looking identical to the Autobot Matrix as depicted in the G1 cartoon. I say make up your own canon for this part, as you could say that Prime's spark contained the Autobot Matrix or you could say that it stayed inside Prime whilst his spark was removed.
     
  17. Auto Morph

    Auto Morph Gimmick Bot

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    Hmmm... Good point sir.
     
  18. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Dry built

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    A Transformer Spark in a Matrix-looking container that was very clearly not the same object as the Matrix container. It was differently coloured, opened differently, (the halves seperating at an angle) and instead of containing the blue crystal part, it held a Spark, which is a hell of a lot different than a blue rock.

    Execpt it wasn't the Matrix. They specifically identified it as Optimus Prime's spark in the show.

    It was not. It was Prime's spark in a similar but still different container.

    Which is a good thing that never happened. The episode never refered to the object as the matrix, and it didn't match it in design of the Matrix of leadership. They never contradicted what was shown.

    I never said you did. I was just saying, well, to be clear.

    Which is exactly what it was. They never animated the spark holder with the intent of it being the Matrix. The animator's intent was simply to give him a spiffy spark-holder thing, which they did. They had pictures from the movie of the inside of his chest, so they went with it. It was not the Matrix and never meant to be.
     
  19. Karhukjnsi

    Karhukjnsi Universal Wrestler

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    You know, there's a little concept that's existed for quite a few amount of years called a retcon, it's the darndest little thing that does EXACTLY what you're saying cannot.

    Though, thankfully for all of us, a "retcon" never had to occur, since Optimus Prime's "spark holder" was never referred to as the Matrix. The "Primeval Dawn" comic only filled in a questioning hole, stating that appearing Matrix-like object WASN'T and had a separate function.


    It was animated as an object that LOOKED LIKE the Matrix of Leadership, again, not explicitly stated to be so.

    He was referring to "the Matrix" rather than the "Matrix of Leadership", one is a concept and religious belief, the other is a well-established artifact.

    An object that LOOKED LIKE the Matrix, an animation error. Again, an object that was never stated to be the Matrix.

    Again, what was shown was something that looked like the Matrix that held the Spark of Optimus Prime. The various creators and canon continuously confirm that object was NOT the Matrix.

    Maybe in your personal canon, but in the official canon, it isn't. Despite many of your arguments, this isn't even an issue of authorial intent.


    Re-look at "retconning".

    Looks like this Klingon enthusiast has earned no glory in this "battle".
     
  20. OhSlag!

    OhSlag! Well-Known Member

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    Sto Vo..etc. I'm sorry to say you are wrong and SplittLip, Auto Morph and possibly even myself are pretty knowledgable towards the BW side of the G1 continuity. It IS BW/BM canon that Primal never had the Matrix as basically everyone else has stated.
     

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