BEWARE: KO Hasbro Titans Return Deluxes

Discussion in 'Transformers Toy Discussion' started by TyrantGalvatron, Jan 2, 2017.

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  1. RKillian

    RKillian http://www.rktoyandhobby.com

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    Can't they just hold their breath and wait for a clearance sale like Americans?
     
  2. BottleOfFuture

    BottleOfFuture Weaponizer

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    Can we get a Mindwipe ko that replaces the rubber bits with hard plastic already?
     
  3. Hot Shot.

    Hot Shot. Well-Known Member

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    I really doubt these are knockoffs. There just isn't a point in making bootlegs this early.

    ...And the misinformation being thrown around alongside these isn't making it any easier to believe people know what they're talking about.

    Feel free to prove me wrong, but I think these are just factory rejects. It wouldn't be the first time it's happened.
     
  4. oku

    oku Chill.

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    All four pics on the below are demonstration of KOs, showing gaps occur in one area when you try to close the gap in another area, according to the text.
     
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  5. TyrantGalvatron

    TyrantGalvatron Hasbro is NOT your enemy.

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    Is it possible for you to translate all of the text for us?
     
  6. oku

    oku Chill.

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    Comparison of Authentic and KO of Figures from the TR Series

    All the so called “Loose Goods“ or “Factory Leaked Goods” (can also be interpreted as “samples” or “rejects”), are bootlegs. They have poorer paint apps and build quality which made with different materials than authentic products.


    Official’s Insignia are printed very clearly and still appeared to have a very clean look when zoom in, whereas the KO’s are applied with various imperfections such as the faded paint and the “hair” around the edges:

    Hardhead pic 1 and 2

    Photo below showed the Decepticon insignia of the official on the left is printed in sharp manner, whereas the KO’s application is not as good and it’s slightly blended:

    Scourge pic 1 and 2

    Photos below showed obvious different paint apps on the chest, official is on the right and KO on the right. Also the KO’s face is darker:

    Mindwipe pic 1 and 2

    Official’s edges are smooth, and the Kos are rough. Official is on the left and KO on the right:

    Scourge In pics 1 and 2

    KO on the right has “hairy” edge:

    Hardhead pics 1 and2

    Just look at Mindwipe’s teeth, KO’s looks like there’s toothpaste there

    Mindwipe beast pic 1 and 2

    Some parts labeled with different code:

    Mindwipe window pics 1 and 2

    Another case of different codes, there are a lot of examples

    Mindwipe wings pics 1 and 2

    Now look at the seal code, first KOs have different number. Even though different runs would have different number, but official only have released the first run so far. Also, the KO’s seal code is not sculpted as deep.

    Scourge's code pics 1 and 2

    Due to poorly built quality, most alt mode suffer gap syndromes. The left pic below shows the front is hard to tab together. The right pic shows if the front is tabbed by force, the back falls apart

    Scourge pic 1 and 2, both are Ko

    Photo on the left highlights the gap on the front, and photo on the right highlights the window can’t be completely closed (not to mention the poor paint apps on the hood)

    Hot Rod pic 1 and 2, both are Ko



    Besides the examples above, when handling both products, I feel the official have better joints and transformation are more smooth (except Skullsmasher have common loose legs), whereas the Kos tend to have looser joints and sometimes have overly tight ones. Above review is from itoy, feel free to spread.
     
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  7. Might Gaine

    Might Gaine The Devil Express

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    To figure out if there are knockoffs of a toy out there, I search for "KO" and the Chinese characters for "Transformers" on Taobao:

    ko 变形金刚 -非_淘宝搜索

    Currently there are no Titan Returns knockoffs on Taobao. (On the other hand, plenty of Masterpiece toys, DOTM Voyagers, Human Alliance, ROTF Leader Optimus, TF3 Ultimate Optimus, TF4 First Edition Optimus, etc.) So I personally am going to wait and see if any pop up on Taobao...
     
  8. Omegax80

    Omegax80 Using a Positive Rifle

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    Is it possible the photos are just releases vs. pre-release? Maybe ones that just came out from the factory?

    If anyone is worried about a KO, just buy it from a brick-and-mortar store like Walmart, TRU, or Target?
     
  9. AnonymousDwell

    AnonymousDwell Well-Known Member

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    Huh.

    If true, while normally I'm okay with KOs (only when properly labeled as such,) this is really fast and slightly disconcerting.
     
  10. oku

    oku Chill.

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    Sellers on tabao rarely state anything is ko in the title. In the Chinese fan culture, it's common knowledge that lower price implies KO or so called factory leaked items.
     
  11. TyrantGalvatron

    TyrantGalvatron Hasbro is NOT your enemy.

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    Thank you. This helps alot.
     
  12. Might Gaine

    Might Gaine The Devil Express

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    If you click on the link, you will see 60,000 listings labeled "KO" :) 
     
  13. Tresob

    Tresob Well-Known Member

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    Now I am eagerly awaiting for some cheap Cerebros knockoffs...
     
  14. oku

    oku Chill.

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    Sorry, I forgot to mention the exception of obvious bootlegs with different packaging. Funny how they like to tell you the obvious. Also many taobao sellers have multiple stores selling the same items to increase exposure.
     
  15. DoubleClouder

    DoubleClouder Prototype / Testshot collector

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    Again I don't think these are KOs . A lot of these were available loose for a few months before they were releases at retail. Hell I got the Hotrod/Triggerhappy figs almost 6 months ago. I doubt KO makers got ahold of them that far before they were even released. Also I usually get them for sellers who have testshots, sometimes before the figure is even revealed and they have mold differences (helmet on Galvatron, entirely different face for Blaster)
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2017
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  16. snoopcow

    snoopcow Mold hoarder

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    Seconded.
     
  17. [Wing_Saber-X]

    [Wing_Saber-X] Takara Fanboy Collector

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    ^^ First batch or test-shot releases you say? Do tell... :) 
     
  18. batfan007

    batfan007 Double the Dragon

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    No they are not. The first youtube reviews of some of teh official TR HASBRO toys were loose toys from ebay and ali express etc. Reviewers even said so.

    Many sellers from Chine sell ALL kinds of toys loose. Doesn't make them a KO. Just makes for cheaper shipping. And many of them will leave the packages on if people ask for them and are willing to pay the higher cost for postage.

    Frankly nothing in this thread has shown any evidence so far of actual KO's of anything, just a picture and some speculation.

    If they do KO them I hope they do a Blurr in the takara colors, as I have no intention of buying a second one otherwise (got the hasbro one).
     
  19. batfan007

    batfan007 Double the Dragon

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    I ask myself how LIKELY it is.

    Let's see, WeiJiang did some CW KO's recently - like 2 years after the original appeared.
    Their KO's are known to be high quality etc. Also there were teaser images for months before anything appeared.

    Here, we have an image/text not in english, with lots of speculation, little to no "facts".

    And these figures are not very old. Not that that stops them being KO, but usually it takes a fair while for stuff to appear. Except for some of those MP KO's - they tend to turn up pretty quick. Except some of those are factory rejects, and some are 'genuine' knock offs.

    So my money would be if anything, that these are factory rejects.
    Also, looking at all the usual sellers of KO's I buy from, nobody has them, and there were no teaser images, nothing. Then BANG like several perfect KO's out of nowhere.
    Likely no, possible yes.

    Here's hoping when/if there are KO's that they do a takara blur, or do a bunch of loose heads people can but to mix and match of the ones from different territories.
    Anyhow, no offense to anyone intended, but it seems like every week someone posts a "this is KO" thread about something, which turns out to be BS. *cough MP Shockwave*

    Some different packaging will be the thing that confirms it imo, seeing as most of the them have wacky logos, fonts, colors, images etc that make it pretty obvious, like "Shiddy Robot 4" for example. Now that was a quality product:eek: 

    Another thing to consider is that the Titans line is known for having a fair amount of mis-assembled toys. Two left legs, two right foots etc. Which explains he "R1" guides etc on the wrong places in the images. Also, sometimes it's the right part, but the "R1" "L1" text (or whatever text variant) that is misprinted on the wrong side, but otherwise the toy is fine, but it's still classed as "Q.C. Defect and the D.Generate Crew"
     
  20. Max Tower

    Max Tower Well-Known Member

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    The Stamp number for samples is not the same as the production runs they can have a stamp that only applies to a dozen figures and might run off 25 test runs each with a different stamp - sometimes a test run is just a dozen other times there may be 100's of them.

    And multiple versions of the same mould parts exist there isn't just one mould.
    as for the mould flash - that can be down to the mould not being closed properly or the parts not being trimmed of the plastic pressure being off a hair minor manufacturing defects caused by variables in the manufacturing process.

    Things like R1 & R2 are on many parts and sometime the number go quite high but 5 or 6 is typical sometimes the surface details are different on each sub-mold a good example of that is Beast Machines jetstorm the arm parts have a different number of dots depending on which mould the part came out of could be 1 to 6 dots and they rarely match if you have a version of that mould go look.

    Also some moulds might be made in different ways some there is a mould that contains all the gang mould parts just once so all those parts have to be that colour. other time their might be a smaller mould that is lots of left arms (common with action figures) and another mould that is lots of right arms and another mould that is all torsos etc... Mould can vary from small desk top ones that can be changed by the factory operatives themselves to huge ones that require 5 people and a forklift to plumb in.

    Not to mention the crispness of a mould can also be related to it's age and the material it's made out of. if you are going to make 100,000 of something you'd use a steel mould if only 25,000 then you'd use aluminum.

    So the ones shown here seem to show all the signs of being pre-release samples. There is one other option that is that a mould was made (remember there are multiples) and that mould was not perfect and rather than adjust it the mould is just put to the side - if the factory keeps the mould and the rest are sent to storage or another factory then it's possible some legit test moulds can be used to make more of something.

    But calling them a KO is imprecise - it's a bit like what we call KO G1 Optimus Prime - yes they are not made at the behest of Takara or Hasbro but they are made in a legit mould (one that used to be used by GiG).

    Legit moulds were also used to make DOTM Voyagers in the same factory the official runs came from only they were re-packed - the toys are identical though as they came from the exact same moulds and were made by the same hands - so to speak.
    Same thing happened with the G1 Starsaber too - after Taakra ceased Production the factory just carried on making them and changed the box.

    I think we need a whole bunch of more precise terminology.

    ***

    If I had to guess that the ones shown here could very well be dealer samples (sometimes made in the 100's) that are given to traders as gfts by agents to get them to order them. They are not always the same toys as the final toys - a good example of this is the Universe/Armada toys Rhinox/Airazor/Terrorsaur ; Rhinox has different minicon port area / Airazor is chromed and has no ports and Terrorsaur has different paint texture and no ports and also has some minor mould elements from the previous Universe version still in place that were later removed (The Dinobot Crystal). Those are not Knock Offs and they are quite different toys.

    Also sometimes the Takara and the Hasbro version of something differ too - for example the 2001 RID car bros are different in their mould details to the 2000 Car robots toys in many cases. or how Armada Starscream has a dip down jet nose where as Micron Legends Starscream's is parallel to the ground.

    The obvious example there at the moment is also found in the Titans Returns toys often having different faces on the toys.

    So I say don't jump to any conclusions just yet.

    ***

    A better thing to take note perhaps of is the Cyber Batallion toys and if they are KO's or a later illicit run or whatelse in china at the moment - especially as they seem to exist in 2 sizes too in the case of Megatron in particular.
     
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