better ratings system

Discussion in 'Comic Books and Graphic Novels' started by Atlas42, Feb 12, 2012.

  1. Atlas42

    Atlas42 Banned

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    there was a recent spiderman comic where the lizard ate his child, and manipulated people into rape. now, that's all bad and such but the real thing is this. the front of the comic was rated 9 and up. the fuck?
     
  2. Tekkaman Blade

    Tekkaman Blade Professor of Animation

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    There is no real comics code authority anymore and they just rate them whatever they want. I hated that as previous writers had spent many many issues on the characters of Billy and his mother as more than just minor characters. Over the years you even saw billy grow up. So he was just thrown away for a cheap shock without any final moments of character development.
     
  3. Macross7

    Macross7 Well-Known Member

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    Marvel has had some messed up stuff in it. In the Ultimates, Hulk killed & raped people. WTF. While I could stand Hulk killing in a rage on people who are attacking him, but rape? Guess I'm stupid but Hulk is supposed to be a hero character. Rape should never enter the picture, especially for heroes. (Personally, I don't think rape probably shouldn't be in any comics.) Might as well have Hulk attack an animal shelter and stomp the kitties and puppies on his way to throw burning school buses into orphanges. Have him sell meth on playgrounds to third graders.
     
  4. Tekkaman Blade

    Tekkaman Blade Professor of Animation

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    But it's edgy, isn't that what readers want? I mean heck Marvel is all shades of grey now isn't it. They can't have heros, they have to have flawed characters with mental issues.

    Basically both companies have no standards any more and will do anything for the all mighty dollar.

    At this point I'm becoming more and more jaded about my collecting of comics and more books are being removed from my pulls, either from poor writing, or because they are basically rehashing a story I read 10 yeas ago. I keep buying trades of old stories over new issues.
     
  5. Gordon_4

    Gordon_4 The Big Engine

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    Blob also ate Wasp.....I remember watching that on Atop the 4th Wall and I was fucking horrified. I couldn't honestly align that with the narrative in any meaningful way.

    There was also that deeply ******ed plot point of Scarlett Witch and Quicksilver being lovers, then compounded with stupidity when Captain America (quite reasonably) asks "WTF is this shit?" and Wasp calls him a fuddy duddy or something.....it was just surreal.
     
  6. RabidYak

    RabidYak Go Ninja Go Ninja Go

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    I agree that any publisher that runs thier own rating system should do so sensibly and consistantly (which Marvel and DC don't), but anyone who thinks that anything remotely resembling the CCA should be brought back needs to fuck off back to 1954.
     
  7. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    Unfortunately, the majority of comic readers now are in their 20s and 30s, and kids aren't as into the medium as they were, meaning the big 2 cater to their prime sources of income, and those sources still are into the ultraviolent and grimdark shockstories of the late 80s and 90s in many ways.

    I agree we may be getting to a point where the content of mainstream comics may need warnings, but I am loathe to subject them to the same form of regulation that graced the medium during the comics code era. Marvel Max and Knights, had graphic warnings on the cover of each issue, and maybe other lines should as well.

    Or maybe we should be able to move comic storytelling back to a place that is more appropriate for a general audience. The best way I think to do that would be to get kids into comics, using many of the absolutely fantastic youth-focused sublines that Marvel and DC have attempted in recent years. Got kids or younger cousins or whatever? Try to introduce them to the medium if you want things to continue, just like with Transformers.
     
  8. Atlas42

    Atlas42 Banned

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    they're just trying to be edgy for the sake of being edgy. spiderman is something that is considered by many to be child appropriate.
     
  9. UnicronFTW

    UnicronFTW Don't blink.

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    ...
    Isn't Hulk a little bit, to big to really...
    I'll shut up now and go take a cold shower.
     
  10. Wreckgar

    Wreckgar Anthony Stark Veteran

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    This. My pull list is down to 20 books when it was 40 this time last year. I fell off reading a while back and when I went to catch up, I really didn't feel like reading some books. That's the tell sign.

    As for ratings, there's one big problem with the idea of heroes being appropriate for all ages. Kids don't buy comics. Its a sad truth in this day and age. Companies have to cater to who is buying and that's us 20-30 year olds. That means more adult stories even in what should be all age comics. This is where kids lines come in but usually end up failing.
     
  11. LegendAntihero

    LegendAntihero Banned

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    Meanwhile, almost all of DC's comics are rated T for teen. I think that's a bit high seeing as how comics were originally intended for kids.
     
  12. RabidYak

    RabidYak Go Ninja Go Ninja Go

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    Thats self-fulfilling bullshit used by Marvel and DC to justify not putting the necessary effort and investment into rebuilding that business. Archie sells comics to kids, Papercutz sells comics to kids, Scholastic sells comics to kids and Boom must be selling thier comics to kids somewhere because they woulden't keep making them otherwise. Thats just in North America, the Japanese and French never wrecked that part of thier market in the first place and ours is recovering after bottoming out a few years ago.

    Those two publishers have 4 or 5 of the worlds most recognisable entertainment franchises between them, I flat refuse to believe that they coulden't sell comics featuring those properties beyond thier current inbred market if they had the right content in the right format on sale in the right places.

    Thats total nonsense, even when specifically talking about the American Comic Book format. People in comics were out to get as wide an audience as possible since day one, that particular branch ghettoised itself as kids entertainment with the CCA.
     
  13. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    Where they were originally marketed and what the main demographics are now are completely different and the former is, frankly, irrelevant in terms of a for-profit publishing concern.
     
  14. Wreckgar

    Wreckgar Anthony Stark Veteran

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    I'm not saying they don't sell any comics to kids but the market is mainly built on an adult audience. Sure they don't try as hard but it's also not as feasible to. Trust me, I would love to see more kids comics but it just isn't happening at this point in time.
     
  15. RabidYak

    RabidYak Go Ninja Go Ninja Go

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    We'll have to agree to disagree on this one then.

    The Direct Market is built on an adult audience, every other market is built on whatever audience publishers find for themselves and thats exactly what the folks that are making progress in the kids business are doing right now with a fraction of the resources that the useless corporate publishers have at thier disposal. Apathy, financial short termism and senior management that are personally invested in the status quo is whats stopping Marvel and DC from sorting this shit out in the long term IMO. If they don't do it, the guys already making the effort will eventually do it without them and make off with future generatioons of new readers as superhero comics continue to disapear into the irrelevence they current deserve.
     
  16. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    There have been a ton of efforts in the last... say... 10 years to reach youth audiences with comic titles and in some cases, entire comic lines aimed at a younger audience. A lot of these have been really good, in fact, and I'd reccommend them even today (I loved Spider-man Adventures, X-men: First Class, Jeff "Bone" Smith's Shazam! series, Tiny Titans, Spidey & Friends, etc.). Unfortunately, they never really seem to catch on, whether that's due to poor readership, poor promotion, the state of the medium in terms of demographics, etc. etc. Free Comic Book Day has also been a way the companies have tried to entice younger audiences in.

    For one reason or another, and as much as I can't say I'm a fan of the current situation, it just doesn't seem feasible to not cater to the 20-30 year old audience and survive in comics today.

    But who knows, maybe the digital revolution will be a godsend in this regard. Maybe digital comics for younger audiences, or even motion comics, will be a way to get new, young readers back into comics. I'd certainly like to see some efforts in that regard.
     
  17. RabidYak

    RabidYak Go Ninja Go Ninja Go

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    The problem with those books and FCBD is that they generally operate on the principle that kids should and will go to comics stores to discover comics, which is patently not the case at this point for a whole bunch of reasons that would fill another thread entirely. Jeff Smith knows that better then anyone and DC would do themselves allot of favors if they listened more to people like him rather then whatever idiot sets thier publishing strategy thesedays.

    Digital isn't going to be a magic bullet, but easier acess to customers without the entrenched bullshit of the print markets will be nothing but good in the long run.
     
  18. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    Well that's not completely true, I mean, those titles are available at book stores, department stores, drug stores and convenience stores as well (to a limited degree). The biggest issue I think is that comic books just aren't as popular as they used to be outside of comic fans, and thus, aren't as readily available, and the cycle perpetuates itself.

    I can't bring myself to castigate the comic book industry for wanting to support (and draw people to) the comic book stores that represent a highly-linked segment of their business model, and who have in turn supported the comic industry in a variety of ways (financially, socially, in terms of marketing, in terms of developing talent, etc.)
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2012
  19. RabidYak

    RabidYak Go Ninja Go Ninja Go

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    So maybe its time for them to let the comic book format go and try something else. Aside from Archie, the folks making money out of kids comics over there are mostley doing so in book formats and the newstand enviroment in general is only going to get worse in the future. I know thats heresey to allot of people, but more folks reading more comics is more important then preserving a past that isn't working anymore.


    No doubt, but its not good business to expect prospective new customers to seek these places out when they are rapidly becoming an endagered retail species and often arn't very nice places to go.


    Anyway, I think were probably arguing in circles at this point. Bitching and armchair punditry aside, I love comics in all forms and it annoys me to see two of the biggest players being constantly counter-productive to growth and people on the internet running the entire fucking medium down because they think the whole thing revolves around these two publishers and thier shitty businesses.
     
  20. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    I don't disagree with you in principle. There's nothing wrong with trying to target younger audiences with TPB or bookstyle formats. Unfortunately, this too is something that has been attempted, with not only "traditional" sized TPBs but pocket-sized versions of things like Marvel Adventures, Manga-sized TPBs, etc. etc. and they didn't do all that well, that I recall. Like I said earlier, maybe digital formats are a potential way to move forward. I think the big difference with Bone was that since he was signed to Scholastic, he could be distributed through book fairs, school-based book order programs, school libraries, etc. whereas parents might be more apprehensive to do so with more mainstream comic titles like Adventures. I dunno though, I read the hell out of the pile of old Sgt. Rock and Thor comics we had in my grade 4 classroom and it didn't have any negative impact on my studies (hell it probably helped them to some degree).

    I also agree with you that, if they want to survive, LCSs need to change what they're doing if they want to survive. Like I said in the other thread, they need to stop relying as much on the racks and branch out into other genres and mediums (and most have by this point). They need to be welcoming, open places, not the gross hives of elitist neckbeards many of the worst stores can be. I think things are getting better in that regard, at least compared to a decade or two ago.

    Will this end up being enough? I have no idea, but at least it's something in the way of effort. I think the biggest push has to come from the fans themselves though, and I agree that the big picture needs to be about more than marvel and DC, which I think is also beginning to happen. Some of the best titles I've read in the past year have been off the smaller independent presses, and some of these titles have been getting decent noise both in online communities and through staff recommendations at the stores.
     

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