You mean cuz of the things like the Pretenders? The same ones that kelschy has as his sig?

 

A broadsword's a hacking weapon. I've got a couple of double-edged daggers I'll happily lend out, though.

 

are you saying you want a resolute version of TF? resolute for gijoe was awesome but the last episode sucked, really bummed me out how it all ended. when SE seventh stepped SS to the head was the best though.

 

I didn't even like that GIJOE movie .. Sure its gaurenteed to be better than the steven sommers one.. but it wasn't all that great either.. I'd be really ticked off if we got shafted with a Transformers show were as many popular characters died as they did in Resolute..


was bad enough having to live through that once as a 5 year old watching the 86 movie on vhs.. but I don't wanna do it again..

 

Actually, my main point was that we aleady had one.

And personally, I thought it was great.

 

Some very good points have been made here, and I'm certainly not inclined to argue that TF:TM did anything to strengthen the brand (although I do regard it as being one of my favorite moments in the Transformers history).

But there's a major part of toy history I think many of you are overlooking that may be far more significant than the success/failure of the movie.

In the 80's toy companies took risks and tried new things. Toy lines did well for a while then were usually ultimately replaced by new things. Transformers was HUGE when it first came out, but I can tell you just from buying toys as a child the popularity was cooling down to far more normal levels before TF:TM and it's toy lines were released on us.

But let's look at it next to GI Joe- because both lines were of similar popularity around the same time. Basically if you were a boy playing with toys in the mid eighties, you were probably playing with GI Joe and/or Transformers.

I don't know which toy line disappeared from toy shelves first, but I'd venture to guess both probably were gone within a year or so of the other. Although a GI Joe movie was released, it was quietly released to TV in a such a way that it didn't change the GI Joe world the way some of you argue TF:TM did. Despite this they both dried up in a similar time frame and were replaced by new toy lines.

This may be lost on some of you, but Transformers, GI Joe, Starwars, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, and He-Man were all MAJOR toy lines of the 80's that ran their course, dried up and died. None managed to manage their brands so well as to run continuously to the present. They ALL DIED!!!

In the 90's companies began to shy away from taking risks with new toy lines, and all began recycling things that had done well years before. Apparently this worked as nostalga for parents wanting their children to play with the same toys their kids played with (I'm guessing here- I've never totally understood this shift) But within a couple years time new lines of toys weren't being produced by toymakers with enough market power to compete with the big boys and all of these old lines that had died were suddenly taking up a large portion of shelf space in stores.

Transformers was fortunate enough to be one of these big brands brought back to life through this strange turn of events. Except for He-Man, all of these brands have remained on shelves for years now after making that return.

I would argue that Transformers death and then more recent run probably has more to do with this shift in business models than with TF:TM mis-steps.

Personally I loved TF:TM as a kid and my friends who were into TF did as well. While I watched TF before the movie, I really fell in love with it after the movie. The old episodes always seemed very repetitive and hyper formulaic. Plot: Decepticons steal energon, autobots show up, wrestling match ensues between Prime and Megatron- Megatron whines and decepticons retreat- often at starscreams request. After the movie somebody finally realized that robot violence could get past tv sensors and suddenly TF was by far the most violent kids cartoon around- suddenly it was the only action show where characters could shoot straight and all those guns actually hit things. We also had a much more varied set of stories and interesting characters taking place in a much wider, more imaginative universe. It was great!

The two reasons I got out of transformers had nothing to do with Rodimus taking over-

1. I got older and grew out of toys (at least for a bit  
2. And this was HUGE. The toys themselves were getting steadily garbagier and garbagier. Yes it's fair to call G1 brick formers- but they started out as detailed realistic toys which always had die-cast metal in them, respectable paint aps and rubber tires. By the 2nd wave after the movie most of these things were no longer true. We were getting very solidly into the territory of cheap plastic toys that turned from robots into some unidentifiable thing with some wheels or wings thrown on so they could say it transformed.

And from there we go to the pretenders... I mean what the hell?!?! None of what originally made the brand great was still there in those things. Really, can anybody argue that Rodimus Prime was a bigger nail in the coffin than the pretenders? (besides, Optimus was brought back before the the pretenders anyhow- why didn't that matter if that's all it was?)

Ok, I didn't mean to write an essay, I've got stuff to do.

 

Harris Monkey hit the nail on the head. Toy/cartoon fads last 3 years for the most part,the cartoon would have ended regardless of whether or not Optimus died. Duke survives the Joe movie,and G.I. Joe ended too.

 

GIJOE as a toyline lasted another 8 years after the movie. And Duke was supposed to die.. (which was even the inspiration for Prime Dieing) the little bit with Doc at the end was added later.. or so Buzz Dixon tells it ..

G.I. Joe Interview - Buzz Dixon and

YOJOE.COM | G.I.Joe - Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)

 

Ok, so according to wikipedia (what ever that's worth) GI Joe apparently did go on 4 years longer than Transformers.

I do know that both lines went from from being easy to find everywhere to not so easy to find (I don't know how that corresponds exactly with their demises).

But also if you go by Wikipedia Transformers did continue to run 3-4 years after TF:TM, which again puts at least half of the brands first run after the movie. Seems like a shaky correlation to me.

I don't think the exact date/year of GI Joe's death blows a huge hole in my argument here. And apparently TF had another full season after the movie, and the GI Joe movie actually marked the end of the cartoon.

The thing that always boggled my mind was when TF:TM came out, many of the ads said "5 years in the making"- Given that at that point TF had been widely available in the US for around 2 years I never could make any sense out of that.

 

i don't know about it sucking but i do agree there is little need for it to be brought up here for comparison.

 

Negative Ghost Writer. Its the first 20 minutes of the movie that make it great. Some of the other stuff was suspect, but that first 20 minutes is on par with some of the greatest action cartooning ever. Moments like Ironhide's death, Prime's final stand, Starscreams oppprtunistic nature, and his short lived coronation were written and executed flawlessly. Too many characters did die, but while it was a merchandise mover, it wasn't horribly written, just a lil overboard.If they limited the deaths to Prime, Megs and Starscream, it'd been great.

 

Because of things like interest for the franchise dropped drastically.

What's wrong with you?  

 

Well ummmmm yeah. This is stupid.

G1 was cool yes, but we don't need to compair everything to it. Was g1 really all that awesome or is it just the fact that it started what we have today in our TF world. I'm currently watching all the G1 episodes, and I've got to say it's just a kid show. I've seen the original movie several times. It's not all that awesome. It's almost has more fails than the first 30 episodes of G1, and thats a lot. I like G1, but it's not our best stuff.

We need to make a new thread area where people (Big time Gee Woners) can put all the G1 stuff they want.

 

He is trying to troll and make personal attacks.

Kids moved from Robots to Mutants. Ninja turtles were King Shit 1988-1991 So we began to see transformers try to adapt into other franchise's style of toy instead of staying true to itself.

And even though there were 4 years of figures after the movie, there was not 4 years of US show support. Without a show to pimp your toys your franchise is dead.

TFs were a hot mess until BW came out with a plan to standardise the toys and they came out with a successful model for the series. They have been following the 18-month BW formula pretty much ever since.

 

i would love to see a G1 esque adult cartoon!!!
somthing like resolute would be cool
but i want full 30 min episodes, a good story and everything....
....i dun want it to follow g1 i wanna get to see the stories we havent seen stuff from the comics and stuff we havent seen anywhere else.... somthing like what animated did we got the tone of it referncing to g1 with voices and models sort of this is what i mean.... will it ever happen i dunno

but deff would love to see this!!!
and i totally agree with what everyone is saying but i deff think new stories, death, adult tone, great visuals would bring in allot more people then we all may think....

 

didnt cobra commander and starscream share the same cartoon voice in g1?

 

yep, Chris Latta. in resolute though it was Charlie Adler

 

GI Joe tends to be in a more mature target age group than Transformers. The average GI Joe adult collector tends to be older than the average Transformers adult fan. So, Hasbro does stuff like Resolute to fit GI Joe's market.

Also, Transformers has a strong kids fanbase and it has greater kid appeal than GI Joe does. As said by Hasbro and repeated several times in various threads by long-time members of this board, kids simply outnumber adults as Transformers customers by a hell of a lot.

 

I have to agree that the deaths in TF:the Movie hurt Transformers in the short term but helped it in the long.
Kids remembered it. It had real staying power. No it did not do well in the theater but that was a different time. They didn't market kids movies like they do now. As a kid I might have seen 3 movies in the theater. My kids have seen 3 this year so far. Also they didn't try and get parents to buy it on video like they do now.
Anyway I worked in a video store in the 90's and people always requested it.
Almost never did people ask for the old He man movie, care bears, GI Joe, My little Pony. But at least once per month someone would ask me about TF. Why? At the time the Franchise was dead.
Its because as sad as it was for kids at the time they remember how powerful it was. They did things in that movie that NO other kids movie or show in that era would dare do.
Now some of you are saying after the movie the line slowly died. Notice the slowly part. It took 4-5 years. This is why I don't think it was the movie but the age of the kids and the NES.
If you were 8 in 1984 by the time the movie comes out you are 10, at the end of season 4 your 12 almost a teen. In that time and that age it was very not cool to be into toys and kids stuff.
Also by 1986 the NES was really picking up steam. It would be on every kids xmas list by 1987 This was the year that Metriod, Zelda, Castlevania, Punch out, MegaMan all came out.
Look at that title list again, THAT is what kids were doing in 1987. That is why Transformers and GI joe got less popular after TF:the movie in 1986

 

A new G1 inspired cartoon with a cool design style like GI Joe Resolute would be amazing. Add in a great writing team and you have the best cartoon ever. I too would like a more mature cartoon. I don't know why but some people equate "mature" with "ultra violent gorefest". One of my favorite cartoons of all time was Batman the animated series and that was mature but not a gorefest. If we could get a show like that I could die happy.