Your comment was only supplemented by my explanation. We both win...but I win more because I'm watching Beast Wars right NOW lol.

 

I agree with you about "intent", but even if your willing to accept that as the Matrix...theres no reason to assume that the event recording abilities of the matrix were transferred with the spark energy and did not remain with the matrix itself.

But with your analogy, it only looked like a duck.

Sorry but it doesnt apply to what Split lip stated.

Primal never took the matrix within himself, yes he may have adsorbed its energy, but not its physical form.

 

It was intended to be supplemental. 

 

What happened after to the transformers after the episode End Game and who were those transformers running on the hill??

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by G1_Cindersaur View Post
ABOUT ITEM # B.

just because it is the accumulated knowledge of it's previous hosts...does not mean that it holds every MEMORY....of every robot...that carried it.

point being...just because optimus prime carried it...once rodimus prime carried it (the matrix) does not mean he would carry all of otpimus's memories...like events or feelings(for elita-1 for example)

encylopedia's carry knowledge of WWII for example...but not the memories of event's from the leaders from that era as a general example of what i am getting at....

ok so if it interfaces and records and understands EVERYTHING that happens with that being...why have a new leader?

why not when the leader dies...just take the matrix...stick it back into a blank protoform and start over with your current leader in a new body?

Simple...because the matrix does not work that way like you think it does...

when rodimus interfaced with it when he was seeking answers...he never got to have a nice sitdown, download all of primes thoughts and experiences...he got general impressions from the matrix nothing more...just like you would get with a history book

 

What's the point? Does it add anything to the story of the Insecticons that wasn't already there? Not to mention all the problems with logic it raises. It just adds unneeded clutter to their backstory.

 

The point was I was trying to answer the op's question.

"Problems with logic"???

Whats the point of citing that when the entire series has issues with logic.

Not that I see how this issue creates much of a problem with logic.Most of the problems are easy to rectify.

The Insceticons were members of Megatrons crew 4 million years ago, most likely engineering crew.

Its no big deal that Megatron doesnt recognize the 3, a captain cant be expected to know all of his crew.

The 3 not recognizing Megatron can be explained by damage on the crash, what caused them to use the escape pod.

 

beast wars was a good series & Scorponock was the only one to make it from that(if you don't count the lifeless G1 characters!) to the live action Bay Movies(ok ok! not quite true...it was a version of Scorponock based on the BW version & not the Headmaster one!). i do agree that Terrasaur & Scorponock should've appeared in their Transmetal 1 & 2 forms in the show! but only the toy versions of those became available! another good thing to see in the show was The Tripedacus Council! even though we never saw them transform! but again there was a rare release of toys of them which could transform as well as combine to form Tripredaking(i think that was his name! do correct me if i'm wrong!) one last thing! since Bay has made the Transformers become live action! i think that it's only fitting to see a live action series being made! (what d'you think?).

 

Again, you're assuming that the container is the Matrix. That's like saying your lunchbox is your lunch! A container is just that, a container.

Um, they all lived happily ever-after? The TF's seen running over the hill at the end of the episode are just the other TF's who live on Cybertron and had their sparks stolen by Megatron, finally restored to their bodies.

Maybe because the Matrix doesn't work that way?

Well I don't think the Matrix works the way you think it does! Since none of us actually knows how it works, what makes you think your theory more valid than mine? I love it when people state their opinions as fact.

Since you insist on comparing it to an encyclopedia, I disagree with this analogy since history books and encyclopedia's are written by a 3rd party source, whereas I think the Matrix would be more like a series of memoirs written by the leaders themselves.
I'm sure if Rodimus had needed to know Optimus' intimate thoughts about Elita-1 or any other subject he probably could have found them, but he didn't need to know any of that either time he accessed the Matrix. Just like the way someone would use an encyclopedia, you generally don't read through the whole thing, you just look up what you need to know at the time. Just because you own an encyclopedia/history book/memoir, doesn't mean you automatically know eveything it contains.

Engineers? Really?

• Bombshell: A master of mind-controlling "cerebro-shells", the twisted Bombshell plays with the minds of others as a child would a new toy, enthusiastically and recklessly.
• Kickback: Kickback is one of the most charming, likable beings you're ever likely to meet. He collects friends the way others do energon cubes. Scratch the surface, though, and you find a manipulative blackmailer that loves digging up dirt on his new "pals" to force them to work for him.
• Shrapnel: A master of electricity, his dark desires put this skill to use on his victims, victims. Nothing delights him more than to see how they squirm from his touch.

These hardly sound like engineers to me. More like masters of torture and psychological warfare.

I agree here. Though I think Megatron's not knowing the Insecticons has more to do with a combination of their unsusual forms and Megatron's own arrogance. He likey only really a knows a handful of his troops since he likely views most of his troops as connon fodder.

Unless you count the McDonalds Happy Meal toy, there was no Transmetal Scorponok, and niether of them had a TM2 toy.

Tripredacus was the name of their combined form, and the toys weren't rare at all.

Since the movies cost millions of dollars to produce I think it would next to impossible to do a live action TF show on a TV budget, and have it not look like crap.

 

No, the container is "part" of the Matrix.

Again, theres no reason to assume Primal would have been able to access any of the info at will when ever Rodimus "THE CHOSEN ONE" could never access the info at will.

I said they were engineering crew, not engineers......meaning they were working in that section of the ship

Who knows what job they may have been forced into doing on Megatrons ship.

 

I missed this before.

This pretty much negates your first theory.

Even if you want to accept the the event recording abilities reside with the "power", and that Optimus may have the ability to access the info Primal left with the matrix, then Prime would have had a need to look up the info.

He wouldnt have just known about it all.

 

The problems I was thinking of pertained more to why they weren't shown aboard the Nemesis during BW if they were indeed there. Stasis lock? Then who jettisoned the escape pods? And if they were in stasis, then who put them in the pods? If they weren't in stasis, then why didn't they show up? Or do they routinely let intruders aboard the ship to fight it out on the bridge and mess the place up?

And if they were there, were active, and did nothing, then what's the point of having them there in the first place during BW? Far better and easier to assume they launched the escape pods themselves during the 1st crash.

 

So your lunchbox is "part" of your lunch?

At some point the Matrix container had to have been built, which would imply that if need be they could build another one. Just like you could get a new lunchbox, but that wouldn't change the lunch inside it.

Don't get me started on that "Chosen One" nonsense.

Maybe the accumulated wisdon in the Matrix would purposely make Prime aware of the possibility of potential damage to the timestream. Hell, maybe the Maximals left a "note" in Teletraan-1 for Optimus when he awoke, then he checked the Matrix for the full scoop!

The point is we don't know! I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong, but you guys certainly seem to be. Funny thing is I've never seen you guys take any credit for working on Beast Wars or anything officially related to the Transformers at all! So you could be just as wrong as you seem to think I am, hell, we all could be wrong! But you guys seem to think that your opinion is fact, and I'm just wrong.
It would be one thing if we were talking about something that has been established as fact. Then there could be a "right" and "wrong". But hwat we're talking about is parts of the fiction that little to nothing has been written about. So untill Hasbro pays someone to fill this particular gap in our knowledge, we could all very well be right or wrong.

However, my theory seems to be supported by the TF Wiki:

 

They did escape during the first crash, presumably lying in stasis untill some undetermined time, when they reactivated, took the forms of insects, and modified themselves to "eat" to create energon to fuel themselves.

So they weren't aboard the Nemesis during the events of the Beast Wars because the weren't there. They were lying in stasis in their escape pod somewhere in the swamps of what would become Bali.

 

Ahh, well I see 2 possibilities.

A] the escape pod was launched before the ship crashed the first time.

B] the Insceticons made it to the pod, but it failed to launch, and when BW'Megs caused it to crash a 2nd time, the automated systems launched the pod.

Sorry but theres no reason to try to make a connection between the shell and a simple lunch box.

Remember, with the shell, Optimus was able to activate Vector Sigma.

Which means its hardly a "lunch box".

lots of maybes and assumptions based on no evidence.

Dont confuse me with outhers you might be debating.

I have made no claim of "fact".And I havent said your wrong.

I simplely said there was no reason to assume your theory was right.

And other then the remote possibility, you havent provided anything to support it.

And just because a thing bis "possible" is no reason to assume its likely.

Hardly,

Primal did not become deceased while in possession of the matrix powe.w

Further more, he wouldnt die till about 300+ years after Optimus awakening.

So, Primals life force wouldnt be contained within the matrix.

 

Ok, fine. So it was able to act as a third key to Vector Sigma. Which means it had to be created to do so, which means another one could be created to do so again.

So where's the evidence to support your theory?

Saying that I have no evidence to support my theory (which is completely untrue) is tantamount to saying I'm wrong.

How convenient that you glossed over this then:

After all, when Optimus Prime was journeying through the Matrix to find the solution to the Hate Plague, who's was the first face he saw? Rodimus Prime's. Who had also not died while in possession of the Matrix and yet his presence was still within it.
So it is possible that Primal need not have died for his knowledge to be present within it.

 

Thats an other assumption.

I havent offered a theory on this topic.

Again, you must be confusing me with others.

or its asking you to provide that evidence.

I "gloossed over" nothing.

Wiki isint evidence, its the assumptions and conclusions of its writers contributers.

Mean, its not much more then your opinion. Not to mention that the info itself was pertaining to the comics.

Actually thats debatable.

The colors didnt match with Rodimus exactly.

Thou thats likely an error, but whats not is that , in a way, Rodimus Dird when the Matrix was removed.

Unlike Optimus, who remains Optimus with or with out the Matrix, Rodimus seems to be a combined personana of Hot Rod and the combined life forces of the Matrix.

With out the Matrix, Rodimus is a good as dead.

But I'll give you credit for citing somet5hing of substance this time.

 

Works for me. Glad we're all on the same page now. I tend to go with option A myself.

 

love the same page, sorry for the mix up.

 

No worries.