Beast Wars II and Neo: Continuity?

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by Omega Supreme-1, Jan 15, 2008.

  1. Omega Supreme-1

    Omega Supreme-1 Autobot Sentinel

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    Beast Wars Metals


    The world of Beast Wars Transformers Metals is a slightly different one than the Beast Wars Transformers show presented us with during its second and third seasons.

    Although the original Cybertrons and Destrons are seen as the ancestors of the current "Beast Wars" group, they did not change their group names. The Cybertrons and Destrons are a new generation of Transformers. Convoy and Megatron are the leaders of the Cybertrons and Destrons respectively, but they are not the original characters by the same name.

    According to the pamphlet included with the Beast Wars Metals toys, the Transformers war started nine million years ago (which is consistent with the cartoon) and four million years ago, a group of Cybertrons and Destrons went into space looking for energy. The resulting battle caused them to crash, not on Earth, but rather a planet referred to as Energois.

    Out to rule the universe is the Trypticon Council (whom we knew as the Tripredacus Council). This same council is responsible for Jaguar (Ravage) being rebuilt and sent into the midst of the Beast Wars.

    Overall, it is interesting to see what was changed in translation from the American/Canadian series to its appearance in Japan.

    Beast Wars II

    Beast Wars II tells the story of a battle waging between Lio Convoy's team of Cybertrons (Maximals) and Galvatrons army of Destrons (Predacon) on the planet Gaia. As LioConvoy and Galvatron fight over the mysterious energy source known as Angolmois energy, many strange occurrences and mysterious properties of Angolmois begin to arise.

    Beast Wars II: Lio Convoy in imminent danger!

    The Beast Wars Second: LioConvoy in imminent danger! is a film based on the Beast Wars Second anime series, a Japan-only spinoff of the Beast Wars television show. The movie was never released outside of Japan because Beast Wars Second aired only in Japan, as a filler between dubbing the first and second seasons of Beast Wars. The movie revolves around the Cybertrons, lead by LioConvoy, the Destrons led by Galvatron and a mysterious device that has crashed on Planet Gaea (A future version of Earth) , leading to the arrival of Cybertron leader, Convoy.

    Beast Wars Neo

    The series centers on battles between both Maximal and Predacon (Cybertron and Destron in Japan) factions for possession of an energy source called Angolmois, which played a similar role in Beast Wars II. The lone "one-man army" Big Convoy is assigned the task of being teacher for a group of young recruits new to the battle field against Magmatron and his more battle-experienced group. By the end of the series however, both forces must unite to oppose the wrath of the dark god Unicron.

    IDW Beast Wars comics continuity

    Prior to the end of the Great War and the signing of the Pax Cybertronia, Lio Convoy commanded a crew of Maximals who traveled to the planet Gaea and battled Galvatron and his forces.Beast Wars Sourcebook

    Years later, during peace-time, the ever-vigilant Lio Convoy sat on the Bi-Partate Committee for State Affairs, but was also a member of a secret black-ops intelligence unit known as the Pack. During a conversation with Razorbeast that was officially off-the-record, he reminded his fellow Maximal that their unit didn't exist and that the Maximal Imperium didn't sanction their operations. He warned Razorbeast that if he was caught while undercover in Magmatron's command, he would be disavowed.


    Target Exclusive Magmatron

    Call of the Primitives In a desperate attempt to combat Megatron's technoorganic virus on Cybertron, the Oracle supercomputer reformats a group of surviving Transformers, rendering them immune to the plague and extremely powerful. Using the DNA schematics of former Maximal Dinobot, each warrior emerges as a hybrid of savage prehistoric power and advanced Cybertronian robotics...the result, the fearsome Dinobots are born!

    Magmatron was the leader of the Destrons in the Beast Wars Neo Japanese series. This past is alluded to in the "Dinobots" version of his tech specs which even borrows the term "Emperor of Destruction" from the original japanese tech specs. Interestingly enough, Magmatron is listed as a Heroic Maximal, despite the obvious references to his being the leader of the Beast Wars Neo Destrons. This is because of the need to keep him affiliated with the Dinobots, who are all listed as Maximals.

    Magmatron was released as part of the Beast Machines sub-line of Dinobots. He was a Target exclusive toy. Unlike the four deluxe sized Dinobots also borrowed from Beast Wars Neo, Magmatron was unchanged for his release in the States. His colors and Spark Crystals all remained the same. Some people claim to have Magmatron toys with the Dinobots Spark Crystal instead, but I have yet to see one of these in person. You can read a detailed review of the toy here.

    Following an interplanetary quest for energy capsules, Magmatron returned to Cybertron to find an alarmingly growing population of Vehicon drones. Revered by his followers and reviled by his enemies, Magmatron is known by all as an "emperor of destruction." His determination to succeed is unshakable and he accepts nothing less than total victory. Mitotic spark allows for separation into three aggressive dinosaur modes: Landsaur, Seasaur, Skysaur then recombines into an unstoppable tri-dinosaur Fuzor.

    Now these series raise many questions, such as where they fall into continuity (if they do at all). I always assumed that Beasts Wars Second took place during the same time period as the regular Beast Wars timespan. However, I always believed that it was taking place in the regular time stream instead of the past; where as the Axalon crew were pulled into the past due to transwarp. Also, I always believe Gaea to be none other than Earth after human life, and I believe Robotmasters concurs with that. Prehestoric Earth, in the Japanese dub, was known as Enerogia as well; named for it's abundant amount of raw energon. Beast Wars Neo obvious is a continuation of Second, since it involves a academy fresh crew of Maximals lead by the legendary war hero Big Convoy; who is the son of Lio Convoy according to a manga that abridged the two series. My question is, how do you personally think about these series?

    There's basically 3 timelines presented by various media.

    Japanese Continuity

    BW>BW2>BWNEO>BM (assumedly)

    IDW Continuity

    BW2>BWNEO>BW>BM

    Target Exclusive Magmatron Continuity/Beast Wars Anime Events Unknown

    BW>BM (Ambigous if the events of 2nd and Neo happen, but they refer ambiguously the Beast Wars Neo Destron/Predacon crew)

    I have to say, the IDW Continuity is fun and it seems to be shaping for a more understandable Cybertron going into Beast Machines. However, I personally don't like it being Pre-Beast Wars because I always believe Beast Wars Second was a rescue mission to find the Axalon crew.

    One question I pose for everyone is, do you think Convoy in the Beast Wars Second is supposed to be Optimus Primal or G1 Convoy reconstituted in a Beast body. BWMetals leads one to believe that Primal/Beast Convoy is a new character, but it's fairly ambiguous in the Second Movie. G1 Convoy is the legendary commander most think about so it's easy to associate that Convoy with the original. Also I guess one could ask if you consider the BWII movie to even be in continuity with the rest of the anime. After all, most anime movies are simply not at all connected to the rest of the story.

    Please share your thoughts ^_^
     
  2. Black Oracle

    Black Oracle Black Convoy's Dark Angel

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    Interesting thoughts on the Japanese BW continuities. Japan's BW series are certainly in their own universe separate for the most part from the US BW to BM universe. The recent IDW BW comics are an attempt to bring together the Japanese and American BW universes i think, involving a reshuffling of the BW II & Neo timelines to come prior to the first BW events.

    I think the BW II movie special was only loosely meant to fit in with the BW II series it was based off. It was basically just a chance to see Lio Convoy and Convoy from BW working together. We saw a similar meeting at the end of the BW Neo series when LioConvoy came to aid Big Convoy in combating Unicron (in BW2 Galvatron's body).

    I never really thought of the BW2 series as necessarily been linked to the BW on Prehistoric Earth. I don't think LioConvoy was leading a rescue mission in search of Primal's crew, he and his Maximals/Cybertrons ended up stranded on another planet (Gaea/Gaia) with their own separate mission there that paralleled Primal's situation on prehistoric Earth. And the events of BW Neo began with Big Convoy leading his team to discover the fate of LioConvoy and his crew who had gone missing some time before. But i do agree with you that i preferred the thought of both BW 2 & Neo coming after the first BW series.
     
  3. destrongerlupus

    destrongerlupus #MoreSawBoss

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    I've always felt that there was some subtle symmetry between BW and BWII. The Axalon crew ended up on prehistoric Earth, but the details seem wrong at first, so they don't realise it. That's a given. I'm pretty sure that Lio Convoy and co. have actually wandered to contemporary (by BW continuity standards, future by our standards) Earth. Name fits (Gaia is synonymous w/Earth), and the world of Gaia definitely feels like a possible end result of Centuries of TFs mucking around with our planet (Moon is hollow and inhabited by semi-but-non-cybertronian andriods, lots of broken high technology around, the ESSENCE OF UNICRON AND THE MATRIX steeped into the soil of the place)

    In short:
    BW = Pristine Pre-TF Earth
    BW II = Future Post-TF Earth

    Earth remains, as always, the unwitting but essential core of the TF story.

    D/L
     
  4. Pravus Prime

    Pravus Prime Sorcerer

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    I always saw BWII as a parrallel to BW, another ship, another crew, another mission, and like Destrongerlupus, I tended to think of Gaia as either a very near earth planet or as the then modern Earth.

    BWNeo very clearly follows BWII, and I tend to view BM, and IDW as seperate continuties really.

    So, you've got:

    Continuity 1: BW -> BWII -> BWNeo
    Continuity 2: BW -> BM
    Continuity 3: BW -> IDW
     
  5. Sol Fury

    Sol Fury The British Butcher Administrator News Staff

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    Gaia is Earth.

    It was confirmed in the tech spec bio for the Robot MastersLioconvoy, and Takara Tomy's Kissplayers manga subsequently affirmed its position. It's set in Earth's far future where Earth was destroyed by the essence of Unicron left in it centuries earlier when Unicron's essence was sealed there by Primus and Fortress Maximus / Brave Maximus.
     
  6. destrongerlupus

    destrongerlupus #MoreSawBoss

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    Yay, I called it ;) 

    Not that any of you knew me back then when it was a brand new series and I made that guess ;) 

    Nice to know the canon-version of my there was Matrix/Unicron goo all over the place though

    D/L
     
  7. Sol Fury

    Sol Fury The British Butcher Administrator News Staff

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    IDW's continuity appears to go:

    BW2 -> BW Neo (both altered but retaining the basic plot) -> BW Seasons 1, 2 & First 3-6 episodes of Season 3 -> BW The Gathering -> Rest of Season 3 -> BW The Ascending -> Beast Machines (check out the last panel of the Ascending)
     
  8. Elvin Pena

    Elvin Pena <b><font color=red>CyberCon is #1!</font></b> Veteran

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  9. GENOZAUR

    GENOZAUR Banned

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    i figure if any of the beast convoys are meant to be a post g1 protoformed optimus prime it is most certainly lio convoy

    his character profile in the beast wars source book clearly states that he is a maximal commander in cheif of great authority and dignity, that he serves a higher power and that his actions in life are those of a living person that can see the far greater picture which is beyond most normal persons ability to see, comprehend , or understand for that matter and in a rather unexplainable manner of speaking is somehow perhaps unnaturally in tune with the natural harmonics of whatever planet he is on


    so far as i know that most certainly fits optimus prime's character to a t

    as for his eyes glowing that lights sky blue in beast wars ascending issue 3.

    i figure if he really was optimus prime to begin with it would pretty much make sense that he would possess some kind of residual link to the matrix/ allspark

    in short his eyes glowing like that could be do to the possibility that he foresaw and actually seen razorbeast's spark joining the allspark in death even as in realtime razorbeasts spark was slowly but surely fading away due to the angolmois energy that poisoned his body

    that is just an educated guess though on my part

    if i am right on that much people then it is possible that big convoy was at one time in the past ultra magnus

    if anything he certainly has that heavily armored look going for him in robot mode


    since big convoy carries within him a matrix its quite possible that big convoy posesses the main portion of the original matrix's chrystaline core with said matrix core having been split between big convoy and lio convoy
     
  10. destrongerlupus

    destrongerlupus #MoreSawBoss

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    Well I don't know anything about the IDW stuff, but it certainly clashes with primary Japanese continuity, so take this as you will.

    While in my personal TF-verse and heart of hearts Lio convoy has been ACTUAL Convoy as often as not....he's definitely NOT in canon.

    Convoy (G1 Prime) is Convoy. US continuity calls him "Primal" and Takara stuck him with "Beast Convoy" when he was forced to exist side-by-side with his other self in Robot masters, but Monkey-God-Convoy is definitely THE convoy in Japanese _BW_ continuity.

    The only other candidate would be Hyper Convoy from Neo, whose white gloves I've argued could be seen as Star-Conoy'esque. But really, US-BW-Primal IS Convoy.

    D/L
     
  11. Omega Supreme-1

    Omega Supreme-1 Autobot Sentinel

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    Well Benson Yee's information seems to contradict Beast Convoy and Beast Megatron being the original characters. The guy seems to be pretty knowledgable about Japanese Transformers series, and I tend to go with the same opinion as him.
     
  12. destrongerlupus

    destrongerlupus #MoreSawBoss

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    Ben Yee's a knowledgable guy, but I think he may be taking his cues from the US-BW continuity there, where Primal is NOT Convoy, but everything I've seen and read from Takara's standpoint is that he is. The two don't square well, despite being the same show ;) 

    D/L
     
  13. Pravus Prime

    Pravus Prime Sorcerer

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    As I recall, it's both true. Beast Convoy was Not Primal, taking after the cues of the American series at first, but after BWII Movie, it was retro-continuitized to Beast Convoy being Convoy himself.

    Also, keep in mind that the Japanese themselves have multiple continuities, as even the Manga version of BWNeo for example was radically different from the BWNeo Cartoon to the point where it's completely incompatable.
     
  14. Omega Supreme-1

    Omega Supreme-1 Autobot Sentinel

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    Does the IDW Continuity have the Council of Convoys I wonder...they have Magnaboss, who I believe they listed as their Maximal Council of Elders right? Magna Prime is kind of a cool name if you had to assign a Prime to Magnabass :3

    I just find it odd, and possibly time stream destroying to have Beast Convoy and G1 Convoy (if they are indeed the same being) in Robot Masters together. Beast Convoy's personality doesn't mesh at all with G1 Convoy's either, honestly. Wouldn't it be easier to just think of the Convoy in the Beast Wars Second movie, as Convoy possibly having information on Beast Convoy for the split second he was awakened in the Ark in Beast Wars Season 2? He could have easily called upon that information, and chosen a form of Beast Convoy's that was no longer in use; since Beast Convoy was Transmetal at the time. The fact that Convoy is in Beast Wars Season 1 form, while the show was continuing as Beast Wars Metals putting Beast Convoy in Transmetal form seems kind of like a hint that Beast Convoy/Metal Lords Convoy=/=G1 Convoy.
     
  15. Gryph

    Gryph Action Master

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    Here's the deal. When the very first Beast Wars toys came out over here, Primal was Prime. When monkey Primal and dino Megs came out, they dropped that and made them separate characters due to the tv series. Unfortunately, they never came straight out and said it. When Takara got the series, they thought the Primal and Megs characters were still the G1 versions. In the series, they never actually said they were the characters, only hinted at it. By the time they got Metals, they found out that he wasn't Convoy, so they just dropped that idea. Unfortunately, they didn't give any real explanation about that for a long time. I do believe Robot Masters was the first time he was specifically said to not be G1 Convoy.

    I might be a bit off, but I'm pretty sure I have it mostly right.

    Oh btw, on a side note. Most Japanese BW fans prefer the US show, anyway. The Japanese version got pretty messed up.
     
  16. Omega Supreme-1

    Omega Supreme-1 Autobot Sentinel

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    What you said makes a great deal of sense, and I can understand not liking the JPN version of Beast Wars. Making Airrazor a male, turning Rattrap into a Pikachu-esque character, and flip flopping about whether they were on a new planet or Ancient Earth is confounding x.x;
     
  17. DrSpengler

    DrSpengler The Real Ghostbuster

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    In addition to ALL THAT, Beast Megatron's personality was COMPLETELY different from G1 Megatron's personality (in Japan, I mean). In the Japanese dub of Beast Wars, Megatron was this flamboyant screeching madman whose most notable character trait was that he would scream like a girl whenever he was surprised. Shigeru Chiba IN NO WAY even tried to emulate Seizo Kato's G1 Megatron voice

    I think that massive turn-around in personality should be enough to convince people that the whole "Beast Megatron and G1 Megatron are the same character in Japan" is nothing but stale bullshit.

    And yet still it persists.
     
  18. Gryph

    Gryph Action Master

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    I believe you mean male. :p 
     
  19. Omega Supreme-1

    Omega Supreme-1 Autobot Sentinel

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    Yes, that's what I meant indeed >.<;

    Anyway, I think there's ample amount of evidence that in all continuities BW Convoy and Megatron=/=G1 Convoy and Megatron. However, I have the feeling it's going to continue to be a misconception based on the fact they share the same name. That and the community as a whole seems to like to cling to their own notions of the continuity, such as the whole "Galvatron isn't Megatron" misconception.

    On a side note, what purpose would G1 Megatron need with the Golden Disk that he recorded on himself. He would already know about Earth, and any relevant data to that story. It's pretty obvious that Beast Megatron, is a different Megatron.
     
  20. destrongerlupus

    destrongerlupus #MoreSawBoss

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    This was my understanding, yes, thaks for clarifying! And so true on the Manga-variances, though I kinda like Bigger's manga-origin :) 



    Good lord yes J-Megatron is HORRIBLE! I'm shocked to hear that anyone gives any credence to him being connected in anything but name.

    My personal take on the Convoy issue is that BW-Convoy could be considered a "Second(Third?) Coming" of Convoy. Not the same guy in an unbroken continuity of life, but a true re-incarnation of Convoy. That would roughly square most of the issues.

    Anyway, BWII and Neo rule, that's all I'm sayin'

    D/L
     

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