Beast Wars characters in civil war era

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by Rexidus, Sep 10, 2012.

  1. Rexidus

    Rexidus Autobot TFW2005 Supporter

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    So I seem to be a minority. People seem to crave seeing Beast Wars characters introduced into Optimus Prime era. See Cheetor and Rattrap in Animated for example.

    I really don't like that. I want those groups of character to only mix if time travel is involved. And I realized a good analogy to voicing why.

    To me, the Beast Era is a whole brand new generation of Cybertronians. As a new generation it gives the illusion that their race as a whole is an actual race; generations are born, rule, and die; just as they do for us.

    But my analogy for mixing the two is thus. It's akin to wanting Data, Worf, or Picard in the new Star Trek movies. These character are not part of that generation. As much as I love Data, I do NOT want to see him interacting with Spock (unless, again, time travel). Kirk should not have Troy on his bridge (where she would do nothing but slap him).

    So yeah, pointless thread is pointless.
     
  2. Jetbolt

    Jetbolt Maximal Air Commander

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    Given that Prime and company lived for millions of years, I really find it hard to believe that some of the Beast Wars era characters wouldn't been around at some point during the Great War.

    I think the Predacon Megatron was a commander towards the end of the war.
     
  3. daitarn red

    daitarn red bionic hero

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    autobots in north
    decepticons in south
     
  4. Nope

    Nope Predacon

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    I kinda agree with you. I mean, I have no problems with a random BW character being homaged or appearing in a new story (like Animated Blackarachnia or even DotM Darksteel), but I'm not exactly sure how I feel about a large portion being recreated or whatever. I don't know, it's hard to explain.

    I think that the main reason for wanting them in new media is so that we can get new toys and new exposure for BW (like with RiD Scourge and Sky-Byte getting a lot of exposure recently).

    God, don't even suggest that. I don't want that to happen to my beloved TNG crew.
     
  5. Spiderus Prime

    Spiderus Prime TFW Spongebob since 2007

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    Optimus Prime is Abraham Lincoln,Ultra Magnus is U. Grant,Grimlock as H.Sherman,Megatron as Jefferson Davis,Shockwave is Robert E Lee, & Starsceam is John Booths.
     
  6. Avengers

    Avengers Banned

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    They would probaby keep getting new alt modes. to keep blending in with the era.

    Don't forget,the Beastwars crew was their on earth in secret. they couldn't stay forever on earth because then they'd mess with the G-1 time line. cause a time flux & erase the G-1 historical events. the beastwars crew needed to accomplish their mission quick then return to cybertron. so nobody would know they were their.
     
  7. Rexidus

    Rexidus Autobot TFW2005 Supporter

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    I hate the concept of Transformers living for millions of years. Despise it. Thousands of years I can accept. But millions? Good god that is a LONG ass time. It's ridiculous

    But the point I was trying to make wasn't about Beast Wars the series. It was about their characters. Having Black Arachnia in Animated. I don't like that. It's akin to having Troy on Kirks bridge.
     
  8. Thundershot

    Thundershot The guy with 28 Sweeps

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    It's not like BW Blackarachnia was mingling with G1 characters. It was Animated Blackarachnia mingling with other Animated characters.

    Whenever they "reboot", all the rules are tossed out the door and they're building a new universe using past series ideas to help build it.

    Personally, I think it's cool.

    So with that, I have no problem.
     
  9. Slyest Fox

    Slyest Fox Well-Known Member

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    I get the knee-jerk to find it unsettling and I'd be more than happy to keep the two generations completely separate... if more of Transformers took place during the Beast generation. But it doesn't. Since Beast Machines, not a single show has. And the Beast generation has some fantastic characters that don't deserve to be constantly waiting in the wings for another chance to shine. So I was grateful for Blackarachnia, Waspinator and Rat(tle)trap's appearances in Animated.
     
  10. TFW10

    TFW10 Well-Known Member

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    No, I don't think this thread is pointless.

    I'm not crazy having any BW characters in TFP, maybe a few here and there but that's it, nothing extreme.
     
  11. Kickback

    Kickback Proud father Administrator Super Mod News Staff

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    I'd say the war isn't really doing that much damage if 'bots on both sides can survive millions of years.

    "THIS IS THE MOST DEVASTATING WAR EVER. THE LAST 3 MILLION YEARS HAVE BEEN TOTAL HELL, WHAT WITH ALL THE WAR GOING ON AND STUFF."

    War needs casualties. Both injuries and death. Otherwise it's just an 80's GI Joe cartoon.
     
  12. destrongerlupus

    destrongerlupus #MoreSawBoss

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    Completely agree with you both.

    It's a matter of "What continuity" (or Universal stream, or timeline, or multiverse, or whatever).

    If we're talking new stories in the established G1/BW universe then I'm right there with Ryoku. It's a new generation of characters. Some of the oldest Beast-era dudes might have known the last-surviving G1-Vetrans. A few restless souls might be kicking around (Ravage and Swoop are both canon). I'd be surprised if there wasn't at least one or two G1 luminaries on the Maximal High Command/Convoy Council/Tripredacus Council/Trypticon Council. But it should be a rarity.

    If we're in a "new" universe (Animated, Prime, etc.), then have at it, as Thundershot suggests, we're re-mixing the specifics of the character archetypes anyway, there's no reason why we can't have the BW-gang in the random-cast-generator pool.

    Personally though, since my collection is really G1/BW continuity focused (and hence so is my fandom-expereince, generally), I like to keep them pure and distinct. I'm actually in the (rare/small and possibly contrary to pre-club canon) club that feels that the BW-cast were mecha-critters (a la, the Dinobots, many of the tapes, the Insecticons, the Seascons, the *ahem* Predacons) before coming to Earth (BW Neo kinda-sorta explicitly agrees with me...) and so I really HATE the "lets cram them all into vehicles" idea. I LOVE Cycbertron Long-Rack, and I'm down with a few guys having sported vehicle modes at some point, but for the most part, I'm not cool with RatTrap (or whoever) getting crammed with a non-animal alt-mode and non-animal name (Rattletrap) for whatever reason the fandom insists on this idea.

    BW-Ravage sure was a (bipedal) kitty despite not scanning a darn thing on Earth.

    These guys have been around gor a gazillion years (including having visited Earth for a good long while), been to countless worlds (including those inhabited by both bio- and mecha-animals) they've got a bug-head and a tiger-head-thing for their faction-symbols. The Predacons at least share a name with an explicitly animal-based group in their history.

    WHY do they all have to be cars and planes and such again? Occam's razor tells me that it's more lkely that they're robo-critters on Cybertron too.

    I basically agree, but I always figured that they CAN live millions of years if nobody is shooting at them, and since the main forces were napping under the Ark for a few million, and the situation back on Cybertron was a quiet stalemate, it was more of a Rip Van Winkle sitch than the status-quo that a single generation would last so long. After all, in canon, once Prime, Meggy and co woke up, they lasted all of what?, 21 years before getting themselves all obliterated and replaced by a new gang. That's probably more typical.

    D/L
     
  13. MECHADOOM

    MECHADOOM I'm Doombot and I know it

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    I wouldn't mind the casts mixing, as long as it makes sense. Introducing a VERY young Optimus Primal (with a slightly different name) who is inexperienced and kinda acts like Hot Rod at first, and has to be trained by veterans of the war, like an older Springer, or an older Blurr? I'm totally down with that.
     
  14. grunge

    grunge The TANK

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    I don't mind the living forever thing, especially since they seem to be able to transfer themselves iunto new bodies and assume new identities .. or not.

    As for the OP, Well some beast era characters such as the magnaboss crew were G1 autobots. sometimes. other times not. And as far as BW characters in optimus prime's era, I prefer to think that during the beast era he was away somewhere exploring space. leaving cybertron to the newer generation. and in times of need returns to cybertron only as a guide.

    i wouldn't mind a mix, i mean in animated EVERYTHING got mixed together, and animation aside it was tasteful.

    but hey ill mix my chocolate and peanutbutter, you can keep them seperate. its all progritive right?
     
  15. Slyest Fox

    Slyest Fox Well-Known Member

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    I mean, it's not just the fandom. Isn't it pretty cut and dry that the Beast Wars characters did not have beast modes before coming to Earth? Even ignoring Dawn of Future's Past which clearly depicts them with vehicle modes. They had to get the beast modes, that had to adjust to now having an animal part of them, etc. That was definitely not an intrinsic part of who they were. Beast Machines makes it further clear, I'd say.

    Really, with the Transmetal forms providing them vehicle modes, I have no trouble buying that maybe Rattrap was a little roadster, Tarantulas was a motorcycle, Optimus some sort of flying gizmo, etc.

    Does it make sense with the names being so blatantly animal oriented? No. But in the first episode, the Maximals (Optimus aside) blatantly chose new names for themselves "Cool, I'm a cheetah. No... no... Cheetor!" It's stupid and makes no sense, but it is what it is.
     
  16. destrongerlupus

    destrongerlupus #MoreSawBoss

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    In G1 (and across other continuities) they scan a new form that is closest COMPARABLE ANALOG to their current form in the new environment.

    Optimus, Jazz, and the rest are wacky space cars and trucks, and they scan Earth wheeled vehicles.

    The seekers are crazy flying space pyramids, and they scan the most advanced air-superiority vehicles on earth etc. etc.


    If we're talking pimary on-screen canon (ignoring Dawn of Futures past etc.):
    1. We only ever see shadowy glimpses of robot forms pre-earth.
    2. Same for guys on Cybertron
    3. Ravage is at least partly animalistic without needing to scan jack
    4. The limited look we have at pre-earth forms on Beast Wars, and the more extensive look we get in BW II lack any explicitly animal-features but also lack wheels jet-wings, etc.
      • One of the Tripredacus dudes has a whole bat-wing motif going on as well
    5. The Maximals and Predacons have DNA scanners. This is evidently standard issue. Deoxyribonucleic acid is a compound for conveying organic genetic material. Why would a bunch of car and jet dudes be explicitly planning on scanning organic life forms?
    6. The Combatrons are the only Beast Era Predacons/Destrons we ever see with vehicle forms, and they are named as a special sub group.
    7. In BW Neo all the Cybertronians encountered on any world (including Cybertron) explicitly have animal forms (organic ones at that, which is odd, but hey, it's canon)
    8. Beastmachines was explicitly about organic vs. technology not animals vs. vehicles (this is a weak point, I'll grant you)
    9. Had the ORIGINAL Transtech came to pass we would have seen Primal and company take on hybridized animal/vehicle forms. Take that for what it's worth, along with the Transmetal forms which were similar hybridized animal/machines
    I'd say that the strongest counter-arguments are:
    • Cheetor etc's silly self-naming sequences (Though going from say, a Photovoltaic Cat to a Cheetah would have prompted a similar name change, much like GoldBug's revamp and re-name)
    • Authorial Intent (I think Bob and/or Larry said something about their pre-earth forms someplace)
    But we see a lot of stuff on screen (if you take into account Second and Neo), and there's no reason to believe that animal forms are any stranger on Cybertron during BW than they were in G1 (and they were pretty prevalent in G1, both in terms of TF altmodes, and also the Mecha-Fauna encountered on worlds throughout the G1 'toon)

    Plus, you know, Bug Head faction symbols on a group called the Predacons, and wierd Animal Head faction symbols for the other guys.

    But, yes, I know, pretty unpopular opinion, though I really fail to understand the "Monkey was Trukk" obsession.

    D/L
     
  17. Slyest Fox

    Slyest Fox Well-Known Member

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    I mean, don't get me wrong, I'd prefer if they were always some form of an animal. Makes them more unique and explains their name (I just try to ignore the fact that they apparently re-name themselves upon landing on a new planet for some stupid reason) I just never thought this was a real theory.
     
  18. destrongerlupus

    destrongerlupus #MoreSawBoss

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    Haha, well I'm glad that your kind of on my side :) 

    For most fans the mix of Authorial Intent and the added layer of Dawn of Futures past have made it a dead issue, but as a big fan of the extended Japanese material, I (and a few others) choose to fight the tide ;) 

    D/L
     
  19. Rexidus

    Rexidus Autobot TFW2005 Supporter

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    Meh, I prefer them with vehicle modes pre-Earth. In fact if I were able to, I would have a new show/comic/webseries/cave drawing of a revived civil war lead by the Predacon Megatron. Basically Transformers: The Next Generation.
     
  20. grunge

    grunge The TANK

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    ^^^^ Cave drawing! hahahaha!!!
     

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