It's been a couple years since I saw the show so I'm probably turned around. Frankly, I somehow how the impression that they were Decepticons or Predacons who were willing to work under the Maximal elders during the Pax Cybertronia.

Boy, now that I type out what I thought they were, that doesn't make very much sense at all. Anyone have a clear answer?

 

I don't think it was clear what side they were on back in the day. Hell, it could have been Devil Z!

 

They were referred to as "autobot generals".

 

You know reading all these entries, no one mentioned the Techno-organic aspirations of the quintessons. They originally tried to make techno-organic bodies for their "robots" but could not control them. I saw that as another link between G1 and BM, kind of like maybe that is what the matrix/oracle wanted all along and had to wait millions of years before it could be accomplished?

 

Strika's color scheme is pretty accurate, moreso on the BWR version, but she's still too awkward in robot mode when it comes to the toy. Her wheels stick out of her chest, she has that big ugly plastic piece behind her head, her reciprocating guns are not on her back, her lower arms need to larger and in line with her upper arms, etc.

Obsidian's color scheme (green) was completely off, and though he looks somewhat show accurate in robot mode (though his arms are a bit too bullky, he had no pop-out fingers, and his chest was way off), his cockpit and the size of his propellers in vehicle mode were completely wrong.

 

Wow, how did I miss that. Do you remember in which of the 3 parts of "Sparkwar" it was mentioned?

 

I'm TF hopeless. As much as didn't appreciate many aspects of Beast Machines, including the Cybertron salad, I still went on eBay after watching the DVDs and picked up BM Silverbolt and Noble Savage. Luckily I found both for a little change over $20 with shipping. Sigh. Anyway, all said and done, I don't think there was any TF series before or after, where so many of the the TF action figures looked so show inaccurate. It's like the show artists and toy makers never talked to each other. or perhaps the toy makers used written descriptions instead of pictures.

 

How in the world did I forget that? Why would Autobots side with Megatron over someone who could claim Optimus Prime as his "ancestor"? Ok, I promised myself I'd stop bashing the show....so yeah. I'll leave it there.

Noble Savage isn't a bad toy at all, but the gimmick gets a little irksome. Silverbolt is worth owning if you can appreciate him for how horrible he is. Once in a while I pick him up, try to make one of his modes look *presentable* and smile because it's hilariously impossible. I think both those toys are fairly accurate to the show, and I don't mind how the Cheetor and Blackarachnia toys look because they're fairly cool looking. It's the original Primal we got that really got under my skin.

Eventually we got some awesome show-accurate (ish) toys like Rattrap and the tank and motorcycle drones. Compared to the first wave of Beast Wars, the last waves of Beast Machines were perfectly show-accurate.

 

BTW, who was the first BM Primal? Was it the Blue Monkeybot with the Kryptonite weapon? I don't think any of the BM Primals matched the show. The closeest was RID's AAOP.

 

For pretty much the same reason Rhinox sides with megs.  

Not offhand, but i'm working my way through the boxset, so when I get there, i'll let you know.  

 

You know for as many people don't like BM, yesterday I went from watching the BM DVDs stright to watching the new Cybertron on CN and god it was almost unwatchable. Complain about BM all you want but then look at all the kiddie crap we got for shows afterwords.

 

besides the toys that were of characters in the show, there were actually a lot of cool toys (IMO) in the series. just off the top of my head: spystreak, tankorr, thrust, jetstorm, mirage, tank drone, motorcycle drone, night viper, night slash cheetor. notice they're mostly vehicons...

 

I actually just caught my first episode of Cybertron over the weekend. I thought it was....weird. The story seemed to be fairly incomprehensible. I hope the problems with the dialogue were mostly because of translation. I liked the mix of CGI and cel shading on the robots, but the rest of the art turned me off.

To me it's just as difficult to enjoy as BM, but for opposite reasons.

 

For me it is the difference between a North American produced show and Japanese produced show. If you haven't seen RID, Armada, Energon you would see the progression in all the shows (esp from Armada to Cybertron) If I had a choice to watch BM or Cybertron I would pick Beast Machines, That being said Cybertron has a lot of good qualities and as the series progresses it gets more interesting. Sure it could be better, but this is what is out there in new media, it sure beats the alternative; no show at all.

 

I caught the first 20 or so episodes of RID and completely missed Armada (though not on purpose or anything), so it's a little bit a shock, yeah. Still, if I had to watch all of Beast Machines or Cybertron I'd probably choose Cybertron just for the robot visuals and more adventure-y feel.

 

Just popping in to give my opinion.


I don't have a degree in storytelling, but I believe I have a significant enough experience with various stories that I am able to determine Beast machine's level of story-telling quality. As far as the story itself is concerned, ignoring it's connection to Beast Wars, I don't see how Nefud is able to fault it at all. The characters undergo internal conflicts and consistent character development, there are ulterior motives and underlying subplots, and the sides are presented in a way that everything is not as black and white; the Maximals are subject to disorder and "extremism" while the Vehicons have actually put an end to years of conflict on Cybertron (not only that, but Megatron's plan is essentially the same as the Oracles, which is to become unified with every spark.

You can argue your qualifications of judging a story all day, but it means little when the elements of the story can be plainly seen and are clearly well written. It may not be Shakespeare, but it has all the elements that made Shakespeare worth watching.


Now, as for the character's progression from Beast Wars, that is a different story. Even if it was inconsistent, that would be problem independent of the self-contained story; instead it would be a problem with continuity. But I do not see the BM characterization as inconsistent in any way shape or form. Each character reacted to the situations they were presented with in a believable manner. First of all, you have to remember that none of the characters have their original maximal programming anymore, so their personalities are now unhindered. You also have to take into account the drastic change in circumstances that they undergo, even towards the end of BW, and so you cannot compare them to their early BW selves.

Optimus Primal: He had essentially caused the extermination of his race. Over TIME he became dependant on the Oracle because of the feelings of guilt he had. This was a flaw that eventually led to his downfall; and his downfall allowed him to become a stronger character than he was before.

Blackarachnia: She was the least changed from the end of BW, when you take into account how much she had already changed by then. She essentially undergoes the logical progression of her character, into more of a Maximal and less of a Predicon. Out of all the characters, clearly she is best able cope with the change in situations.

Rattrap: Weak, helpless, weaponless, and unable to transform, Rattrap is the least able to cope with the change in situations. He had always been the least brave of the Maximals. He also had always anticipated more than anyone else the return to Cybertron. It follows that seeing his home in such a horrifying state would have the greatest effect on him. Yet, lest you think this change is still for the worst, rattrap eventually overcomes his psychological issues and becomes, like Primal, a better version of what he was before.

Cheetor: Like Blackarachnia, he undergoes the logical progression of his character from the end of BW. From the beginning of BW, he goes from the equivalent of a juvenile teenager to a young adult. Beast Wars continues that, as he develops into full maturity while he is forced to lead the Maximals during Primal's inactivity.

Rhinox: This guy has always been the layed-back, quiet one. Yet there have always been elements of a more ruthless nature to Rhinox, especially in the episode "Dark Designs". When Rhionox becomes a Predicon, it reveals a more ruthless side of Rhinox that is usually hindered by his maximal programming. As a Vehicon, Rhinox has no such programming. Yet neither does he have Predacon programming. Instead, his peace-loving nature is combined with his ruthless nature, creating the Tankor we see in BM.

Silverbolt: Silverbolt explains his character change well enough. He is angry at Megatron for removing his Maximal identity and reprogramming into a Vehicon. he is angry for the enjoyment he had in the freedom of being a Vehicon. Essentially, his innocence was lost, and he was trapped in a state of vengeance. Yet, this state of vengeance is not new for Silverbolt. Think back to the last few episodes of BW, when Silverbolt believes that Blackarachnia has died at Tarantulas's hands. His attitude at that moment is no different than the attitude displayed in BM, aside from the fact that now no one could bring him back from that state.

Megatron: He is the most interesting change. Many more factors go into his development than into anyone else’s. At the beginning of Beast Wars, he merely intended to restart the great war, yet by the end--due to a combination of desperate circumstances growing ambitions--he wanted to erase the Autobots from history. He also ends up merging his spark with the original Megatron, giving him a more megalomaniacal attitude towards conquest and defeating his enemies. Finally, he was thrown back threw time, at which point we lost track of him. By the time we see him again, he has drifted through space, conquered Cybertron, and has dominated it for who knows how long. At this point, it would be illogical for him to be the same Megatron that had simply wanted a large supply of energon so as to start a revolution.

Waspinator: Waspinator didn't change much. He still wishes he had more power and that he could somehow rule the Predicons, yet he is also resigned to his fate. Because of this he has, interestingly enough, given in to his new "Thrust" persona, actually preferring it to his old "Waspinator" self.

 

Very well put Alph!!!!  

 

I just finished the series. Now generally I like it, but I just have to ask, what were they smoking when they wrote the ending? Holy cow...

- Megatron flies around Cybertron for three quarters of the episode, then suddenly can't fly when Optimus pushes him over the edge of his throne platform and down into the organic goo?

- Botanica can put flowers all over the city to the horizon with a touch?

- Cheetor's in charge? Yikes!

- Cybertron becomes a dinner salad? Essentially.

I still hate the ending. For all it's good points, the ending of Beast Machines is still awful. It would have been interesting to follow up perhaps, but ugh...

 

The reason they gave when Primal asked them the very same question, was that they are loyal to the protection of Cybertron. And that Megatron now is Cybertron.

 

I loved Beast Machines, just wanted to that.

Oddly enough my two favourite Transformer's shows are Beast Machines and Car Robots/R.I.D. .