Beast Machines design process

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by DecepticusPrime, Sep 7, 2009.

  1. DecepticusPrime

    DecepticusPrime End of Days

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2002
    Posts:
    2,576
    News Credits:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Location:
    Iowa
    Likes:
    +29
    Ebay:
    Randomly, i was wondering the other day.... When Beast machines planning first began, what were the intentions for surviving charecters like Rhinox and Silverbolt? Was the condor toy always meant to be SB? Or later on the name just slapped on it. And was Rhinox always meant to be a vehicon and if not, why wasnt a BM Rhino made. Just wondering if anyone knew...
     
  2. Nemesis_Dirge

    Nemesis_Dirge Banned

    Joined:
    May 6, 2009
    Posts:
    770
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    101
    Likes:
    +1
    i am not really understanding your question?

    are you asking that did they make an alternate script where rhinox survived the crash with the others and fought the vehicons instead of being captured and getting formatted into a vehicon via the spark extractor?

    then the answer is no...there was no alt script...what was on the show is the way it was written...
     
  3. Wheeljack_Prime

    Wheeljack_Prime Don't eat me

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2008
    Posts:
    11,360
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Likes:
    +41
    I think that was the case with Silverbolt. Apparently Jetstorm was to be called "Skybolt" for a while before they decided that was too much of a hint.
     
  4. Feralstorm

    Feralstorm I ship Nick & Judy TFW2005 Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Posts:
    17,115
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    327
    Likes:
    +68
    I'm guessing the basics of "who's who" were worked out pretty well in advance. In addition to "Skybolt", the original toy form for Thrust looked a fair bit more insect-like than the show incarnation.
     
  5. DecepticusPrime

    DecepticusPrime End of Days

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2002
    Posts:
    2,576
    News Credits:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Location:
    Iowa
    Likes:
    +29
    Ebay:
    I see. I didnt know that they worked out the whos who during the design process. I would have never thought that they really would have associated the charecters with the toys. It just seemed like something that happened purely in the show
     
  6. Dom

    Dom TFA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2009
    Posts:
    1,504
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Likes:
    +2
    Out of all the TF lines BM is one of the worst for scale and realism. I can understand a first wave where the designs are a little off, but how on earth they thought Rattrap was going to be bigger than Prime I don`t know. The designs of the show characters were good, just the toys were really messed up.
     
  7. Gingerchris

    Gingerchris Telly-headed Tyrant

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2005
    Posts:
    14,696
    News Credits:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    262
    Likes:
    +43
    I thought I heard tell the BM show designs come before the toy designs. So the first lot of toys were trying to play catch-up and didn't pull it off as well as would normally be. Come the second series the toys were, for the most part, far better representations of their on-screen counterparts.
     
  8. Optimal Fan

    Optimal Fan Paxion

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2009
    Posts:
    274
    Trophy Points:
    76
    Likes:
    +0
    Did people even really watch BM because they liked it? I only watched it because, well, it was on and it was a continuation of BW / Transformers. The toys were bad (vehicons were cool to an extent) and the script was too from what I recall. It was like a bad alternate universe filled with pseudo-philosophical themes on religion and technology.
     
  9. Pravus Prime

    Pravus Prime Sorcerer

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2002
    Posts:
    14,122
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    277
    Likes:
    +71
    Sadly BM had a lot of problems production/development wise. This was partly due to a sudden change in direction (originally it would've been Beast Hunters with a more Star Trek/BWNeo/Cybertron with various planets style plot, etc.), resulted in some disjointed communication.

    On the show side, Dan DiDio specifically told the writers to ignore everything that came before and they should invent everything as brand new, calling the BW and G1 far too continuity heavy. Fortunately the writers didn't really follow that approach and attempted to link it to BW and G1 anyway. In addition, while Mainframe did a supurb job with the series animation, they also were encouraged to go their own direction with the character designs, partly because of the rush job that they had recieved and partly again, under Dan DiDio's mandates.

    Hasbro had some difficulties as they had decided to go in a different direction from the Beast Hunters in pretty quick order to the BM format, so not all the designs were smoothed out. While their designs came first, Mainframes alternate take and more finished designs resulted in the toys looking nothing like their on-screen counterparts. Hasbro managed to fix that pretty quickly, and some of their later designs were rather excellent to the screen.

    In answer to the original questions, it's hard to say. There clearly was a wiping the slate clean directive action that allowed a smaller core cast to be established, though how small is questionable. In addition the lack of sculps or designs lends credience to the idea that certain characters were never considered, but again it muddles into the relationship between the show and the toys. From a show standpoint, they were certainly considered, but to what degree is unknown. We do know that if DiDio had his way, there wouldn't have been any connection.

    BTW, DiDio is also responsible for DC comics series 52, so how he manages to float about with what could be argued with attempting to ruin various franchises, I don't know.
     
  10. Gingerchris

    Gingerchris Telly-headed Tyrant

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2005
    Posts:
    14,696
    News Credits:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    262
    Likes:
    +43
    If you took out all the running away Beast Machines would've been half the length.

    Actually, you could probably say the same about Doctor Who. :) 
     
  11. DecepticusPrime

    DecepticusPrime End of Days

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2002
    Posts:
    2,576
    News Credits:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Location:
    Iowa
    Likes:
    +29
    Ebay:
    Probably best answers my question :)  Thanks. That gives support to my theory that the hideous condor toy wasnt meant to be siverbolt but someone else
     
  12. destrongerlupus

    destrongerlupus #MoreSawBoss

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2006
    Posts:
    6,539
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    232
    Likes:
    +5
    Ya should have indicated your theory from the start.

    Despite all the above, I think it can be pretty definitevely assumed that Silverbolt and the "condor toy" were always intended to be the same character.

    -The Toy came out in the later waves where the matching was much better.

    - Most of the key design cuues are pretty close matches

    Other than it being a measly-small toy (The BMechs line was RULED by Hasbros-then-thinking of diong scale based on previous character-toy-sales, and Fuzor 'Bolt, hadn't lit up the charts), and the colors being off, it's reasonably close to the on-screen design.

    And as was stated earlier, and elsewhere, "SkyBolt"/Jetstorm was almost definitely reincarnated-Silverbolt from the start. Even if you don't buy the behind-the-scenes stuff, the fact is each of the 3 generals are defined by displaying the OPPOSITE (more like fun-house mirror distortions, really)character traits to their inherent sparks.

    Jetstorm is an Arrogant jerk (Vs. Silverbolt's humble noble knight)
    Thrust is a fearless brooder (vs. Waspy's cowradly goof ball)
    Tankor is a mindless brute (vs. Rhinox's cerebral gentle-giant)

    So It's hard to argue the pairns weren't there from the get-go.

    Now, how you go from "Knight" archetype to "Samurai" is another whole other (questionable writing/design) issue.

    D/L
     
  13. LEADERS_MATRIX

    LEADERS_MATRIX Wisdom of the ages...

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2002
    Posts:
    2,709
    Trophy Points:
    201
    Likes:
    +0
    I would like to know where you guys got this info, I would love some myself on BM and BW too.
     
  14. destrongerlupus

    destrongerlupus #MoreSawBoss

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2006
    Posts:
    6,539
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    232
    Likes:
    +5
    Was around and reading the news groups and going to BotCon etc. etc. back in the day when these shows were in production.

    Bob and Larry of BW were REALLY good about sharing info with the fans, and the well didn't entirely dry up with Skir and BMechs either (despite the death-threats ;)  ).

    D/L
     
  15. ectoneon

    ectoneon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2009
    Posts:
    1,489
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Likes:
    +0
    Well they said in the commentary on the dvd that skybolt/jetstorm was always meant to be silverbolt. They also said something along the lines of silverbolt in beast wars always reminded them of Adam West's batman in the wayhe was so perfect and he could do no wrong. So they decided they wanted to take him darker the same way batman got darker later on.
     
  16. Dead Metal

    Dead Metal Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2008
    Posts:
    1,465
    Trophy Points:
    142
    Likes:
    +8
    Ebay:
    I know one more thing that wasn't mentioned in the thread yet.
    It was originally Jetstorm who would betray Megatron and not Tankor, that's why Savage/Nobel had a wolf mode as well as the dragon while Silverbolt was left with just bird dna for his alt-mode.

    I kinda like BM, true I sometimes go WTF when they mention TF stuff and names as I keep forgetting it's supposed to be Transformers but I still like it.
     
  17. DecepticusPrime

    DecepticusPrime End of Days

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2002
    Posts:
    2,576
    News Credits:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Location:
    Iowa
    Likes:
    +29
    Ebay:
    Thats interesting. I always hated the savage noble concept....too weird..an organic transformer. Nice toy though for what it had to do.

    Next question, does anyone know what Cerberus's name was suppose to be and his function had he been released in BM? Kind of an odd pair. He and Battle Unicorn in that they are both mythic.
     
  18. DecepticusPrime

    DecepticusPrime End of Days

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2002
    Posts:
    2,576
    News Credits:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Location:
    Iowa
    Likes:
    +29
    Ebay:
    also... How was it that waspinator got back to cybertron? Im having trouble remembering his explanation. Did he just fly all the way there himself or was there a small ship he found?
     
  19. ams

    ams Generation All Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2004
    Posts:
    6,806
    News Credits:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    221
    Likes:
    +6
    Ebay:
    With the exception of the Vehicons, many of the toys are lacking... I can't help but think people's perception of the entire line would have been different if there had been a better Megatron toy and if Air Attack Optimus Primal had been the main Prime toy.

    But I would never have come back to Transformers if it weren't for the Beast Machines show. It has its problems, but it's one of the few TF series out there where it feels like the very souls of the characters are in danger of being lost. And the very-real-world topics of genocide, religious fanataticism, betrayal, depression, helplessness... not your average cartoon fare, for sure.

    BM show + RiD toys = sucked back in for good :lol 
     
  20. Wheeljack_Prime

    Wheeljack_Prime Don't eat me

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2008
    Posts:
    11,360
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Likes:
    +41
    You thinking of Bruticus? Likely the name would have been the same had he actually been released during BM.
     

Share This Page