Beast Machines and the glaring errors!

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by Phoenix Blaze, Nov 14, 2009.

  1. Phoenix Blaze

    Phoenix Blaze Brain Waster

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    So yes, I'm a fair bit into season 1 of BM, and well, something's really getting to me. The god awful scale issues! Why are we led to believe that Megatron is the same size as Primal? Ha! Megatron was about the size of Optimal Optimus! So BM Primal would be tiny in comparison! And Rattrap becoming the lame little science officer. I miss Beast *Wars* Rattrap!

    As I watch this series I just begin to lament over the Beast Wars and how great a series it was. So maybe this thread isn't about glaring errors, just more where the show went wrong! And I don't believe for a second that Rhinox would take the stand that Tankor does. Ever. I don't actually mind the whole organic origin of cybertron or any of that stuff, just the small errors that seem to plague the show.


    *breaths* okay so maybe I'm just ranting.
     
  2. Wheeljack_Prime

    Wheeljack_Prime Don't eat me

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    It's not like it never happened before.
     
  3. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Dry built

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    Welcome to the same issues everyone had 10 years ago.

    Also, the scale issue between primal and Megs: 1. Scale is non-existent in TF history, and 2. you have no idea what Megatron's done over the eons he's been on Cybertron. The experiments done to him to rid his beast mode could have shrunken him.

    And Rhinox is not Rhinox, just Tankor with Rhinox's memories.


    These aren't errors at all. They're how the story goes.
     
  4. Voiceroy

    Voiceroy Trans-fo-mahs!

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    Beast Machines has no glaring errors.

    It takes place in a "Elseworlds"-style alternate Transformers universe where "Transformers" don't really even transform sometimes... or they transform into really weird things like plants.
     
  5. Feralstorm

    Feralstorm I ship Nick & Judy TFW2005 Supporter

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    What you may call "errors", writers and/or visual designers called "decisions". Sure, they may not match with others' preconceptions of the way things are supposed to be, but someone made those choices, and had reasons (however well or poorly justified) for doing so.
     
  6. CZ Hazard

    CZ Hazard Sons of Unicron PTT

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    They kind of foreshadowed Rhinox's Tankor turn in Beast Wars, when the Preds turned him evil, kind of showing that he could exist like that if he didn't have the mellow personality he has. Take that away he becomes dangerous, and he did.
    The Ratrap thing is unforgivable, he acts like you think a character called Rattrap would act, what I always liked about his BW character was that for all his whining and complaining, bitching and pessimism, when push came to show he was one of the most competent members of the crew. He took Ravage X-9 down on his own for freaks sake! Characters grow and evolve over time, Ratrap devolved.
     
  7. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Dry built

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    And that's the point.

    Take away all his guns and toys, and what do you have left?
     
  8. ORIO

    ORIO Plant-Based Bot Super Mod News Staff

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    Maybe Primals reformatting made him bigger.

    As far as Rattrap and Rhinox they just adjusted and evolved based on the situation.
     
  9. CZ Hazard

    CZ Hazard Sons of Unicron PTT

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    An industrious, resourceful character with a never say die attitude? Like in the BW episode where he breaks into / out of the Pred base with no weapons or tricks.

    In BM, he is just a coward really. Shame, as he started well with his inability to "find the balance within", that was funny stuff and fit the established character nicely.
     
  10. Wheeljack_Prime

    Wheeljack_Prime Don't eat me

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    Not to mention that at the end of the Weak Component, he suddenly developed a code of honor, refused the weapons that Megatron entrusted him for fulfilling his end of the bargain, and not turning his weapon on Megatron during any point during the episode, even going so far as threatening to use the "noisemaker" on his fellow maximals.

    Guess what BW Rattrap would have done? In BM, he just did things he wouldn't normally do for the SOLE reason that BM needed to last 26 episodes, no just 6.

    Becoming as useful as dehydrated water may have given him humility, but that wouldn't have quashed his pragmatic and opportunistic nature.
     
  11. Scaleface

    Scaleface TFW2005 Supporter

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    I NEVER has any problem with Rattrap. All he did was try to get weapons for the maximals, so he made a deal. Then when push came to shove, he did the honorable things and kept his word. Nothing evil able that at all.
     
  12. Wheeljack_Prime

    Wheeljack_Prime Don't eat me

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    HE DIDN'T EVEN KEEP THE WEAPONS!!! That defeated the whole purpose of that venture in the first Place!!! Either side could have ended the war right there, but it didn't because there was still ~20 episodes to go and the two characters LEAST interested in fair play decided to be honorable instantaneously.
     
  13. Scaleface

    Scaleface TFW2005 Supporter

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    They couldn't just let Rattrap end the war. WHat would they do for the rest of the season. Would have made more sense if Megatron had somehow boobytrapped the suit, or made it so the maximals couldn't recharge it or something.

    I do agree that he should have kept the weapons. I think he just felty guilty or something. Primal was all "organic" at the time. Probably wouldn't approve of mech-suits to win the day.
     
  14. Jetstorm

    Jetstorm Wielder of the Keyblade

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    I had no problem with the change in Rattrap's character, and I'm a pretty big Beast Wars fanboy haha.

    I missed Rhinox, but I loved that little story arc where he took over Tankor but he was still bad, great that they got his original voice and everything.
     
  15. Nemesis_Dirge

    Nemesis_Dirge Banned

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    i like the fact that beast machines gave us the primal prime repaint of optimal optimus...and the nice CGI scenes of cybertron....and tank drones...that is it.
     
  16. Draven

    Draven Banned

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    Your rants are entirely justified. In fact, I used to share them.
    I don't now. Allow me to explain.
    First of all, about the "organic Cybertron" thing. If I recall correctly the writers of Beast Machines were specificaly asked NOT to do a lot of research into past TF shows; their research began and ended with Beast Wars. They didn't know most of the lore that had been established in G1.

    Now. Onto Rhinox and Rattrap.

    Rhinox would never have taken the stance Tankor does.
    Except Rhinox went insane. Being ripped from his body, and forcibly reprogrammed by Megatron (remember, the Vehicon generals retained their original instincts and capability to make their own decisions within the parameters Megatron allowed them to have, but VERY little else) into a mindless and merciless behemoth of absolute destruction drove everyone's favourite peace loving Maximal out of his mind. When he eventually regained his original personality, it was a broken and confused Rhinox that we saw; one that truly believed (through a combination of Megatron's conditioning and his own insanity) that the only being fit to lead a united Cybertron was him. He honestly believed, cracked as he was, that only he had the ability to unite Cybertron. As you will see, this opinion WILL change.

    What we saw in Beast Wars was a supremely self confident Rattrap, totally comfortable own capabilities. Now, put yourself in HIS position. How would YOU be feeling, as your friends fought for their lives, as you sat there unable to even transform properly? You'd be feeling like a completely useless lump and you know you would.
    And so along comes Megatron, and he offers you a deal. You work for him for ONE night (only one night, mind), and in return he provides you with a massive amount of firepower. No-one can tell me that the thought of "OK, I'll play along; then leave with an arsenal, come back, and kick your ass" wouldn't be rolling round your head. But then Rattrap realised something - if you make a deal with the Devil, he OWNS you. He realised that if he had taken Megatron's weapons he would have been taking the easy way out. He had to work his problems and insecurities out for himself; and just before it was too late, he finally understood that.
    If anything, Rattrap's actions proved that he had honour FAR more than anything else we'd ever seen him do. And proved it to an extent that even Megatron himself could appreciate.
    In my opinion Beast Wars Rattrap didn't go anywhere, and neither did Rhinox. They were forced into a situation they had no control over, and they dealt with them in different ways. One overcame it, and one broke. None of us know how we would react in the absolute absence of hope until we are there for ourselves.

    Over the years of watching and rewatching BM (it's become my favourite TF television series) I no longer see these things as "glaring errors" at all, although I DID used to; I see them as opportunities for character development on a level we are unlikely to ever see in a TF series again. Beast Machines was DARK. It was nasty. It showed us what happens to heroes when they have every last ounce of hope stripped away from them, and it showed how that hope can be clawed back, slowly but surely. We had characters that learned from their mistakes. It showed us for the first time in a TF show (and probably the last) the dangers of blindly following beliefs to extreme lengths. And it showed us that even the good guys can get it horribly, horribly wrong.
    And unfortunately a lot of people did NOT get it.

    To be honest? I think part of that is because it hit home in our own actual reality without us even realising it at the time.

    Come back and re-address this thread after watching the rest of the show. Seriously - you might just think differently. As Megatron himself said, "Who's to say?"
     
  17. llamatron

    llamatron Shut up, Nigel. TFW2005 Supporter

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    I guess some people just don't like characters evolving and being pushed to their limits? As far as I can tell everyone remained true to themselves and acted appropriately given the circumstances.

    Basically what Draven said.
     
  18. CZ Hazard

    CZ Hazard Sons of Unicron PTT

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    Except Marv Wolfman who wrote the bible also wrote some of the G1 episodes, so he would have been quite familiar with the lore.

    Ultimately, each show has to stand or fall on it's own merits regardless of what comes before or since, by that logic Beast machines is a massive win. I love the show, I love the dark atmosphere and I love the fact they took Aldous Huxley's Brave New World and re-told it with Transformers. That's my favourite novel AND transforming robots in one? How could I not love it?

    Everything with Rhinox made sense to me, and although I miss the Rattrap of old I have to agree with Draven that the characters arc did make sense. At the end of the day keeping Ratrap as he was in BW wouldn't have told a story, causing conflict before resolution is story-telling 101.

    I just miss my little James Bond Transmetal Rat with exhaust pipes who hitches a ride on the top of Tarantulas at gun point, but that really would not have worked in BM.
     
  19. Jetstorm

    Jetstorm Wielder of the Keyblade

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    Very well said, Draven!
     
  20. Draven

    Draven Banned

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    That would be true, yes; however at the same time don't forget that the Beast Era didn't only follow G1 cartoon lore, it also had elements from the comic. In the Marvel G1 comics, for example, Cybertron was originally an asteroid.
     

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