Bayformer Fan Watches Transformers: Robots in Disguise [BLOG]

Discussion in 'Transformers Cyberverse and Cartoon Discussion' started by CaptainSlayer, Jan 2, 2018.

  1. CaptainSlayer

    CaptainSlayer Bayfomer Fan

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    We pretty much have the same thoughts on the show and thank you for the kind words. I don't know if I will or won't continue the blogs, but I'm sure a long break will give me time to decide.


    I'm broke. Can I write an I.O.U?

    It felt pretty rushed.

    Why do you want me to spend my entire life reviewing that show!? IT'S SO LONG! :p 
     
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  2. TLK Barricade

    TLK Barricade Keep calm and Hail Megatron.

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    I assumed he was a war criminal just due to the fact that all of the Alchemor prisoners were specifically referred to as "Decepticons" rather than just criminals, and it was confirmed that at least a few of them did, in fact, fight in the Great War (such as Stockade and Overload), so I assumed that was the case for all of them (although, admittedly, that is pretty hard to believe, considering how a number of them act). If that's not the case, then I guess Steeljaw tried to start his own faction and just decided to reuse the name. Some of the other prisoners were probably part of that faction.

    On a semi-related note, how did a lot of those guys end up being labeled as "Decepticons," complete with logos? Because there are a number of them I just can't picture as part of either Megatron's or Steeljaw's factions. For example, can you honestly imagine a kleptomaniac like Filch fighting in a war, or trying to overthrow a government, or even both? I know I can't. What about that coward Clampdown? Bisk I can probably see teaming up with Steeljaw, but he'd get slaughtered if ever he tried fighting in an all-out war. Springload, as we've seen at least once, can be tricked into helping you out, but like Bisk, I don't see him lasting very long in a major conflict. And, of all people, why the heck does Grimlock have that logo? The show makes it very clear that he can't stand the other 'Cons, so there's no way he would actually fight for them.
     
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  3. Arvegtor

    Arvegtor Aerialbot

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    This is my version of events:
    Think about the war and how it ended. The Autobots were victorious, Megatron was first dead, then exiled himself. And as Autobots were ones rebuilding Cybertron and its society, the word "Decepticon" became the one they used for criminals, since it's what they have fought for so long. The police probably occasionally told something like "Freeze, Decepticon, um, I mean, criminal", so the criminals accepted that and also started using the term (kind of like Megatron accepted it before the war), and after several months it was widespread. A tracker in insignia technology was probably a leftover after the war (when you capture an enemy you would want to recapture them if they escape, and it can also lead to finding their allies), so they used it as well. And it also worked as an identification - "Oh, you have an emblem, you must be a criminal, I'll be careful around you". Prison ships like Alchemor were clearly in usage at least from the time of Cybertron's evacuation (you can't leave your prisoners on a dead planet), which explains some pre-war ones like Terrashock (who worked for senator Contrail before he was labeled as a Decepticon), ones from the war itself (Overload, Stockade) and the clearly post-war ones (Steeljaw, Thunderhoof, Clampdown, Filch, Grimlock and most of others), some of them were regular criminals and others, like Grimlock, were called ones because of Cyclonus' schemes to depower potential foes before he could brainwash the whole planet. They probably pushed some laws like "minor crime like property damage = 50k years in stasis or whatever" as the way to remove potential opposition, so by the end of season 3 they had a loyal army and civillians, who would be unable to revolt even if someone breaks their mind control.
     
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  4. Hastur King in Yellow

    Hastur King in Yellow Lord of Destruction

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    Ahh, we've finally reached the end. and i have been horribly inactive. sorry. none the less i have to agree with some of the other here, this show really fell apart on the last act, and i do not think it was a proper end to the amazing show that was prime. but none the less, an interesting send off. also, if you do decide to do more blogs. that would be awesome. perhaps watch one of the Japanese shows?
     
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  5. LynKey

    LynKey Well-Known Member

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    My explanation would be that known criminals got labeled Decepticons befor the war and Megatron just used the name for his group. So most of them could have been captured befor and some shortly after the war started. Then they were put into stasys and send of in a ship that can´t be trackt, to avoid atacks and keep security to a minimum becaus they need everyone they can get elswere.
     
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  6. Lovecraft

    Lovecraft Indie Musician, Scumbag Jesus

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    yeah especially since Megatronus Prime claims to be the "first Decepticon" it could have been a term in the Cybertronian lexicon well before the war. Megatronus committed Cybertrons first crime, it's first murder, the first Energon spilled.

    it's possible that it could be a cultural disconnect, much like we see here in the united states. the Autobots we're clearly the "bourgeoise" in the caste system in a lot of ways. police officers, senators, pretty much chillin in Cybertron's suburbs. Sure there were probably people who identified with the Autobot "nationality" in the working castes and lowest castes too but as we see in the U.S. today, poverty resulting from a broken system founded on outdated ideals and the greed of the few promotes crime for the sake of survival, and it also promotes crime culture.

    Much like we see in hip hop and other parts of culture, being underhanded and ruthless can be interpreted as virtuous for the most marginalized people. The logic is somewhat sound. The leaders who care not for our troubles are conmen, so why shouldn't we be? Why would we abide by this system and respect its adherents when we can do better, although rougher around the edges, by being Decepticons? and of course the Autobots in the burbs who don't see the reality of the poverty and oppression put on the backs of the poor would see them as nothing more than rowdy, uncivilized criminals, and even those who share those struggles might side with the Autobot sense of "law and order"

    So Megatron led a very much righteous revolution, "reclaiming" the slur of Decepticon. The problem was his spark was not actually in the right place. He conned large swaths of poor working class Transformers into fighting a revolution so HE could rule. Megatron's side was still the best side to be on if the other option was the pre-Optimus Cybertronian government. Optimus Prime's message of peace and unity, coming together and forgetting old grudges, and conceiving a new system to serve all sparks equally is a better movement than armed revolution, but even Optimus would have taken up arms against the corrupted Senate. From the context of his speech in Darkness Rising about how he "fought alongside one he considered a brother" it seems like this was the case.

    Megatron could have shook Optimus Prime's hand when he won the Matrix from Primus and the planet Cybertron would have been at peace, the caste system a thing of the past. Megatron's true motives, his quest for power and the satiation of his ego, drug out the war to the point of Cybertron's destruction.

    And its very much possible that the cultural disillusion against the establishment on Cybertron and the more positive legacy of the Decepticon movement's "peoples revolution" could have persisted in post-war Cybertron. Criminals labeled that way, people like Steeljaw embracing it fully.

    It's also very much possible that some of the more petty criminals could be "rank and file" from the war still wearing the badge. Not to sound like a Nazi apologist, but a large part of the Nazi army were German farm boys and working class citizens simply caught up in that side of the war due soley to their geographic location.

    The Nazi parallels with Megatron and his movement are undeniable. One part of Prime I enjoyed was how the infighting and conflicts of interest, conflicts of philosophy, and treachery/cult like loyalty of the "upper echelon" of the Decepticons (Starscream, Soundwave, Airachnid, Dreadwing) mimics the behavior of Hitlers own inner circle. Megatron's haphazard decision making and blindness to his egos crutches being his fatal weakness is also very much like Hitler. Hitler was bunkered down in Berlin waiting for the allies to come in and still pressuring Albert Speer to completely replace the train tracks throughout Europe to accommodate his vision for a "super train" and was literally putting resources already stretched paper thin by the war into THAT.

    So it's very much possible that Cons like Grimlock, Bisk, Ped, were simply caught up on that side of the war due to what part of the planet they were on when it started. Maybe.
     
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  7. G1Prowl

    G1Prowl Prick, apparently

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    The 2000's Robots In Disguise was a self contained series, so I'd throw down with that one next if you do another blog.
     
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  8. Spiderus Prime

    Spiderus Prime TFW Spongebob and TTV's MS 2.0

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    Well I loved to read your thought on the Unicron Trilogy, RID'01, The Prime Wars Trilogy, and Recuse Bots.
     
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  9. CaptainSlayer

    CaptainSlayer Bayfomer Fan

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    RID2001 gets thrown at me a lot and with how short the show is, I see it being one I could easily tackle.

    I'm not sure what the Prime Wars Trilogy is.

    The Unicron Tilogy and Rescue Bots both interest me but they're so long that I'm too fatigued to do them anytime soon.

    On that same note, I'd like to at least check out Cyberverse before making any further decisions. If I were to do a new blog, I'm not sure the format I'd go with - the classic style, a modern style or just a general post summarizing the entire show once I've finished it.

    I don't have quite as much free time as I did back in 2014 but I definitely feel like somethings missing from the day-to-day when NOT doing a blog, so we will see what happens.

    I do believe I'll watch at least the first episode of each series to see what sticks. I already know that I'd probably like Rescue Bots from that Aliens clip.

    I have already confirmed with @SeanTF1967 that I'll be going back to the Animated Blog to review the shorts I missed the first time around. So those will be coming soon enough at least. :) 

    Regardless, it's really cool that so many of you are still interested in reading my blogs. I appreciate that, genuinely.
     
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  10. TLK Barricade

    TLK Barricade Keep calm and Hail Megatron.

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    In case you do decide to watch the Unicron Trilogy, allow me to warn you about a few things:

    First of all, this anime trilogy is very badly dubbed. Cybertron is a vast improvement over the first two (and even then, it's still not exactly flawless), but Armada and Energon are practically filled with dubbing errors. Characters are sometimes called by the wrong names, some plot details from the original Japanese version are left out of the English dub entirely, and there are numerous lines of dialogue that either contradict what's happening on screen or just plain don't make sense. The English voice acting is pretty... mixed, I guess? Most of the actors are pretty good (Scott McNeil in particular gives what is, in my opinion, one of the best performances in the entire Transformers franchise), but there are still a few who either sound very bored (as if they don't care about what's going on), or just use really annoying voices for some of their characters. Even Garry Chalk (who you may recognize as Optimus Primal from Beast Wars) gives a somewhat inconsistent performance. Most of the time, he's one of the best actors in the entire trilogy (which is why he's my second favorite Optimus, right behind Peter Cullen), but in some episodes, he's one of the voice actors who just sound bored. For these reasons, I would recommend watching them in Japanese, provided that you don't mind having to constantly read subtitles.

    Secondly, the animation is some of this franchise's all-time worst. In Armada, traditional hand-drawn animation (which seems to be a dying art these days) is used for every character and the environments, and unfortunately, it's very inconsistent. There are scenes where everything is very well drawn, others where they just look okay (not great, but not terrible), and many scenes where they are very poorly drawn, even putting some of G1's errors to shame. In Energon, the hand-drawn animation is actually consistently good, better than some of Armada's best-looking scenes, even. Too bad that animation is only used for the humans and some environments. The robots are all animated in some of the worst cel-shaded CGI I've ever seen. Not only does it look bad, but apparently, it was very difficult to animate, as well. The characters' movements looked pretty awkward a lot of the time, and DO NOT expect to see genuine emotion on their faces, as they literally only had two different expressions: mouth open, and mouth closed. For a few scenes, they actually had to switch to hand-drawn animation because those cel-shaded graphics literally could not pull off what they were trying to do in those scenes (really makes you wonder why they even bothered to use that style at all). Cybertron also has hand-drawn humans and cel-shaded CGI robots, and while the robots' character models do at least look better (several of those designs are among my all-time favorites, even), they still suffered from some of the same problems as those of Energon, such as the awkward movements and lack of facial expressions.

    Next, we'll talk about how this isn't truly a "trilogy" at all. Cybertron (known in Japan as "Galaxy Force," which is much cooler-sounding title, in my opinion) was actually supposed to be a stand-alone series that was unrelated to the previous two series, but for some reason, when Hasbro brought it over to America, they insisted on passing it off as a sequel when it very clearly wasn't. This obviously resulted in numerous plot holes and continuity errors, such as none of the characters remembering the events of the previous entries, and some of those characters even having entirely different personalities than they did before. You could easily skip both Armada and Energon, and it wouldn't even matter because, as I just said, no one even remembers that they happened. The dub did edit in a handful of references here and there, but said references make no sense and just create even more continuity errors.

    Lastly, Energon is by FAR the worst of the three. I can't go into specifics just in case you do watch it, but it is considered by many to be the absolute WORST Transformers series of all time. In addition to having the worst dubbing and animation of the three, the storytelling was absolutely horrid. Some of the characters from Armada are absent for no explained reason, certain arcs are either poorly resolved or not resolved at all, character development is thrown out the window almost entirely, and an entire plot-relevant episode is left out of the dub! Most people will tell you not to even bother watching it. I haven't watched the entire series myself, but I have seen and heard enough to know it's a waste of time.

    If you only decide to watch a single entry in the so-called "Unicron Trilogy," I strongly recommend Cybertron. As I said previously, it's a huge improvement over the others, even with its flaws. The dubbing is the best of the three (still not perfect, but much better than Armada and Energon), the robot designs are awesome, the music is great, and most of the characters (even the humans) are pretty likable. I suppose if you want to, you can also give Armada a chance. It was the first Transformers series I ever watched, and I recently decided to rewatch it to see if I would still like it after all this time. While it does have a lot of problems, there are a number of bright spots, as well. I don't want to spoil anything, but I will say that there is at least some enjoyment to be found.

    But at the end of the day, the choice is yours. You can either give one of them a try, or skip them entirely in favor of something else. Your call.
     
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  11. G1Prowl

    G1Prowl Prick, apparently

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    The Prime Trilogy is the Machinima cartoons, starting with Combiner Wars. Mentally prepare yourself, though. The cast is almost completely youtubers instead of professional voice actors.
     
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  12. Pravus Prime

    Pravus Prime Wields Mjolnir!

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    Pretty much that.

    Superlink, the Japanese version is actually not bad. Despite coming out before Energon, it actually uses final animation, while there are lots of episodes of Energon that use the unfinished versions for some reason. In addition, there's a recurring theme early on about names and the honorary suffixes in Japanese that are minor plot points in the show that Energon confusedly dubs around in some of the worst ways. Then there's a subplot from about episode 6 on that gets payoff and a final resolution, along with 2 other subplots that are almost as long late in the series that, as mentioned above, gets dropped out. Since those plot points don't get a resolution, most of them are actively dubbed around in each episode prior where they would've happened, leading to a very confusing and messy dub job.

    Superlink has a great soundtrack and some interesting ideas. On the flip side, there's too many episodes for the story so it's got some serious pacing issues (though, IMHO, not even close to the level of bad as Headmasters). Combined with the CGI tech/budget being a bit too limited to properly emote (there's an episode that requires greater emoting and action, so for that episode the characters change to traditional cell animation for that sequence, which is a bit jarring, but refreshing to see them move like they "should").

    I enjoyed Cybertron; though I watched it (and did a review of my own after I finished when those were the style), in a weird way, again due to the differences, I watched the first 3 or so episodes of Galaxy Force, then re-watched that same episode in Cybertron to get a feel for the differences, then watched Cybertron through to the end of that series. I felt that was a pretty strong way to watch it as it gives you max setup from the Japanese version, then has fun with the American version from there on out. Oddly enough, for whatever reason, Cybertron just butchers the opening, cutting the first few episodes into a single opening and then failing to air episode 3/2 at all until the end of the series as a "lost" episode.

    Armada is just pain. There's only one episode in that series that I thought wasn't pain. I had been going through all the media so as to have seen all the series, and when I got to Armada I went from one episode a day (sometimes more) down to 1 episode a week. I was told repeatedly that the series picked up when it "refreshes" itself and it didn't.



    Pointless is what it is.

    It's a series of web exclusive 10 minute episodes that are a post war G1 series. It's not very good at all.
     
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  13. Arvegtor

    Arvegtor Aerialbot

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    Please tell someone has found 2 unfinished shorts from BotCons for you. I'd really like to watch them as well ;) 

    Speaking of shorts, I think you've only seen the Cyclones arc out of all shorts ever made for this show. That's not all of them and now you can safely watch the remaining 5 on Hasbro's website. And there are 5 more with unfinished animation.

    There's also the Russian web series Portal (I was actually a part of its creative group), which is a RID2015/G1 crossover (but it's not the same G1 as in the cartoon). It's only 13 episodes (with half of them being explanations and even almost commercials) and each is very short. I don't think it was ever completely translated, but it can be easily fixed (I just need a native English speaker for checking).

    I actually like Energon the most (maybe first seeing Superlink then Energon helps with that) and Cybertron the least.
     
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  14. Ismaeel Kamal

    Ismaeel Kamal Well-Known Member

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    It really is a great show. There’s also Headmasters, which takes place after the third season of the 1984 show, but ignores the fourth season, and that’s 35 episodes long.

    A web series by Machinima available on YouTube and Tumblr, that consists of three shows, with each episode lasting 5 - 10 mins (depends on show), but has polarising opinions.

    If you watch all three shows from the Unicron Trilogy, that’s true. But if you watch just Cybertron, then you should be fine. Plus Rescue Bots does have different and creative plots.

    That’s understandable, and makes sense.

    That’s nice.

    I’ll have to check those shorts out (never knew they existed).

    We appreciate you taking time to write these blogs.
     
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  15. TLK Barricade

    TLK Barricade Keep calm and Hail Megatron.

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    Personally, I thought it actually did improve over time.
    Starscream's character development and heroic self-sacrifice, Scott McNeil's excellent performance as Jetfire, the revelation that Sideways was the herald of Unicron, and the well-drawn final few episodes are among the "bright spots" I hinted at.
    But hey, to each their own.


    WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?!!!!!

    Honestly, I'm amazed. I have never once heard someone say that. I mean, to each their own and everything, but... wow. May I ask why you like Energon more?
     
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  16. Arvegtor

    Arvegtor Aerialbot

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    It's so far the only TF show that feels like a large scale war, and there's a lot of actual strategy to how they attack and defend locations. It was very creative with Unicron's usage and with, well, energon. And how can we forget Wing Saber, Rodimus, Scorponok and Roadbuster's "I am awesome!" squad. And the "Battle for Megatron" online game was the best TF mini-game ever, not that it matters for the show itself.
    Meanwhile, Cybertron was just boring. Compressing it into a movie would make it a lot better, it hardly has enough story for more.

    Honestly, I feel all this baseless and annoying hatred of Superlink/Energon comes from people blindly following tfwiki.net (which has lots of flaws besides trying to form your point of view for you sometimes) and not thinking on their own.
     
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  17. YellowCorvette

    YellowCorvette Riko is still Best Girl

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    Superlink is a bit better than Energon, but not by much either. The bad dialogue, padding, mostly uninteresting characters, and inconsistent character arcs is still there, regarding the language.

    I can agree with this, to some degree; I don't hate Armada, but the first half of the show is pretty boring.
    Armada did gets better as it wents on however, with Wheeljack's return as a Decepticon, Sideways been revealed as the herald of Unicron, and Starscream's character arc is definetly the best thing about the show.
     
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  18. TLK Barricade

    TLK Barricade Keep calm and Hail Megatron.

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    Okay, those are some fair points. I'll admit Energon had some things going for it. I still don't plan on actually watching the entire series, though. The dubbing, the animation, and most of the storytelling still suck, if you ask me. If you like it, good for you, but I personally don't.
     
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  19. Negativedark

    Negativedark Stealth Gesalt

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    Funny thing is he got a lot of stuff mentioned in side materials for Japanese G1 that makes him out to be a fantastic leader for postwar reconstruction. He wasn't the heroic frontline general Optimus was, but the guy who could impliment new technologies and policies, while leaving the fighting to those better suited. An interesting take on it.
    It was a fun one, but there is a missing episode thanks to 911, and they also edited a lot of buildings getting destroyed because of it.
    A great subset of the generations toy line that gave us combiners, headmasters, and more combiners. Sadly no show was ever made of it, because I'm sure it'd been awesome and not horrid ten minute episodes with strange exclusivety for what they aired on.
    Quality varies for the Unicron Trilogy (And I've had Armada on DVD a while and need to watch it) with some great ideas I feel weren't developed properly. I do wish Cybertron had actually been able to do the Apocalypse Planet though.

    I missed out on Rescue Bots too for that matter.
     
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  20. Arvegtor

    Arvegtor Aerialbot

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    Not missing, they just changed an episode after that, but the original version has still surfaced.
     
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