Bayformer Fan Watches Transformers: Prime [BLOG]

Discussion in 'Transformers Robots In Disguise / Prime Discussion' started by CaptainSlayer, Jul 5, 2017.

  1. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP AKA Beve Stuscemi

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    The episode itself isn't really bad, it's a certain... moral message exclusive to that episode that kinda drives me mad.
     
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  2. Chopperface

    Chopperface Holtzmanned

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    Metal Attraction was kinda meh but not as unpleasant to me as Shadowzone. It kinda superficially reminded me of the floating island two parter from Beast Wars in that it gave focus to a spider-villain and a more minor villain in the scheme of things. Though things are flipped since Breakdown is more popular and Airachnid is hated, while Blackarachnia was obviously more popular and Scorponok was pretty forgettable.

    Anyway, I dunno, it wasn't the worst. I liked June in this episode and I think she's reacting like a normal parent would to all of this. Her joke about dressing up for Optimus was funny, though it caused a lot of grief for the June and Optimus roleplayers back in the day.
     
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  3. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Hammer of the Gunplas

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    :lol 

    Oh, good, you have seen Xiolin Showdown. This will become important later on.

    As SPLIT said, strap in, because this is going to be a driving theme through the entire rest of the show for Arcee.

    Pretty much. It's at this point Airachnid's existence in the show starts to become strained as the writers have to keep her relevant, but literally the only depth the character has is to be the 'make-arcee-angry' factor - which she isn't the only source of either as you'll eventually see.

    Oh, yes. I love me a good SPLIT rant:popcorn 
     
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  4. MatrixOfWumbo

    MatrixOfWumbo I see you

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    ...What?

    I can't wait to find out what that means, but in the meantime I'm gonna go back to recovering from the first Xiaolin Showdown reference I've heard in like 10 years.

    I just checked to see what episode was next. A really good Starscream episode, that's what.
     
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  5. CaptainSlayer

    CaptainSlayer Bayfomer Fan

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    The entire magnetic thing made zero sense and you've made my head hurt worse thinking about it.

    You've also helped me thumb why I'm still not in love with Miko, she does the same crap every episode.

    I look forward to it!



    I agree. I thought this episode was silly and made little sense. I thought Shadowzone was stupid and made zero sense. This was an "I don't care", Shadowzone was a "I don't like this".


    Loved Xiolin Showdown. Used to watch it every day after school at my step fathers shop while waiting for him to finish. Also, if this is the case, I might be able to see why people dislike her. I love the character herself - her design, combat style, characteristics, everything - but if it's literally just those two bitching about "SHE'S MINE!" every single episode then I want off this spider's crazy train.


    I really miss Xiolin Showdown. I heard they did a sequel of sorts but have never been able to look it up.

    Also, good. I like Starscream.

    Well, this version of Starscream. I hate G1 Starscream...
     
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  6. CaptainSlayer

    CaptainSlayer Bayfomer Fan

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    Rock Bottom

    I fell asleep immediately after this episode so my memory might be a little foggy since I've only just woken up. Bare with me on any mistakes.

    So Miko, Jack, Arcee and Bulkhead are at a random mine, which I assume is Starscream's from an earlier episode, using a special energon tracking tool to find an energon signature but come up empty handed. The two Autobots have only just walked out of the cave when Miko does her whole 'I'm a rebel, look at me do what you said not too woooo!' thing and sprints into the pitch black cave. I'm sure you know what happens next with them so I'll move on to the bad guys showing up.

    I was confused why Starscream and Megatron showed up here. It seemed a bit counterproductive to the Decepticon cause to take a lovely stole to nowhereville USA with just the two of them. Thankfully, the writers did a good job of explaining this a bit later in the episode and all I could think of during their confrontation is "Wow, Soundwave is super loyal... He's also totally Randall J. Weems."

    Then things start to go south and while this episode is marginally better than the previous one, I still felt kind of bored around half way through. It had it's highlights such as showing Miko almost suffocate and allowing the bond between her and Bulk to grow even stronger through it but it was still just them doing nothing but standing in a cave.

    Jake somehow knows how to operate Decepticon mining equipment and gets the chance to drill Megatron's brains out, who I'm assuming is claustrophobic since he's so eager to die and repeatedly suggests that Jack finish him off while he's immobilized. Jack not wanting to ruin his mother's date game with Optimus Prime decides to have Mercy and keep on drilling but somehow Megatron gets out anyway - chewing the rocks I guess - and other things happen. Where the hell was Arcee during all of this? Did Jack just managed to dig her out after he saved Miko and left Bulkhead for dead?

    By far the most interesting part of the episode is the severe case of 'stockholm syndrome' Starscream exhibits when he has the chance to run free but instead turns to help the guy who was about to put a bullet in his brain. I can't say I blame him, the guy is smart, he knew that Megatron was likely going to survive a few rocks falling on him and that by running away he'd further his status as a traitor and would be hunted down like game and while that would have made a great opportunity for the writers to introduce Lockdown to the series they instead opted to show Starscream made the right choice by... begging for mercy from Megatron again while his arms shook like wet noodles?

    I couldn't really read that look on Megatron's face but I assume we haven't seen the last of Starscream. Oh and speaking of Megatron's face, his eyes are super intimidating. Like, when Jack was talking to him and all you could see was his face it gave me some real 'Child's Play' vibes. I had the same recurring nightmare about that stupid doll from when I was 4 or 5 until I was 18ish. It's creepy. But, I love it. Megatron should be creepy. He's super evil.

    I think I got everything. Oh, Miko's phone must be in the repair shop from being magnatized because she wasn't taking selfies of her suffocating while Bulkhead got weaker and weaker.

    OH! YEAH! WERE THEY REALLY TRYING TO ALERT JACK BY BANGING ON BULK'S FOOT WITH A ROCK!? DID THEY NOT HEAR HOW LOUD THE DRILL WAS!? I severely doubt Jack could hear himself think...

    Until next time, Prime fans.

    Thanks for reading<3
     
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  7. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP AKA Beve Stuscemi

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    Okay, so the big, stupid, stupid thing about this ep (that I'm not surprised you glossed over given you fell asleep afterwards) is Arcee and Jack sparing Megatron's life. This stupid moral message is not only infantile given the circumstances, but runs completely contrary to Arcee's quite deliberate assassination attempt of a weakened, comatose Megatron in Sick Mind. There, Megatron was a potato, helpless and unconcious, not even assumed to survive let alone lead again. Yet Arcee, grinning, shot his life support (I doubt she knew it wasn't going to be easily plugged back in since why would she, so she clearly meant to kill him) and rightfully so. This is the leader of an intergalactic scourge. He has killed or caused the death of millions in this war. And while he is totally concious and healthy, they refuse to eliminate the one greatest threat the universe has ever known, on bullshit moral reasons that don't stand up at all. Why? Because the writers wrote themselves into a corner, and had no choice but to fall back on the laziest excuse to not end this war ever.

    See, this concept of taking the moral high ground against an unmistakable evil has been done in Transformers before. Once in BM, once in TFA. See, in The Weak Component, one of my favourite episodes of Beast Machines, the two sides are likewise poised to end their horrible conflict once and for all. Megatron is weak and completely defenseless. And Rattrap likewise has the perfect opportunity to kill him and end it all. And likewise, personal morals and character ethics stand in the way, but they were so very nuanced compared to "it's not right because it's not right." See, Rattrap was at his limits. He was dealing with essentially being hobbled. He was weaponless, and in his mind that meant useles. He had been cast out from his circle because the Maximals were likewise pushed too hard and without Primal, had no direction. They were crumbling under the pressure, and Rattrap couldn't take it. So he made a deal with the devil, and when the Maximals showed up to threaten that deal, he lashed out at those who had abandonned him. It was heavy, character-driven stuff. The morals didn't enter into it so much as the conflict among the heroes. Rattrap, despite what people said, had retained his growth from Beast Wars. He was no longer the underhanded, unscrupulous rat. He had honour, and we all know where that came from. Emotions took over, and when both sides returned to normal, nobody was really up for a fight. It would just be yet another stalemate, so it made sense the two teams would part with Optimus still weak and Megatron with only his generals on hand. Especially if you consider Megatron's ultimate downfall in Beast wars was his dishonourable ways. He lost that fight because of his pettiness, it's easy to see that as him learning from past mistakes. The characters grew a little that episode, showing they are not one-track in their goals, and that they are human for lack of a better term.

    Likewise in TFA, it was simpler but more elegant. Optimus had just beaten Megatron, he was weak from the explosion, and Optimus spared him. He stated Megatron wasn't "worth it." Now see, what makes this different from this epiode in Prime is that all through TFA, Optimus had been aspiring to be a hero. He wasn't a soldier, he was just a ship captain. He wasn't fighting a war, he was fighting injustice. And in Optimus' eyes, heroes don't kill for no reason. He spared Megatron's life to show Megatron that Optimus' way worked. Yet he wasn't so stupid as to just leave him there, he disarmed him with the seeming fatal blow, and took him into custody. He didn't just leave a vulnerable, yet living, Megatron to escape and fight another day. There was no lesson here, no growth, no victory moral or otherwise. The Autobots blew their one chance to end this misery once and for all and patted themselves on the back for it. To think that Arcee, one so tormented and scarred personally by this conflict would just give up is absurd. What should've happened, in a show that actually wanted to address the moral issue, is have Bulkhead and Arcee argue about it. Have Bulk take the high ground and Arcee advocate pragmatism, with each giving well-thought reasoning for their stance. And instead of the lame joke ending of Starscream having to hold up the boulder, have him succeed in freeing Megatron, rendering the discussion moot, and leaving the question uncomfortably open ended. Maybe even use this as a building block for future conflict among the Autobots because, minor spoiler, there is no conflict among the Autobots. No clash of ideals, no contrasting personalities. Nobody argues unless one character is blatantly in the wrong, or they're just crabby. They don't even have to shout or get angry, just have a dialogue about an actual real issue.

    But no, this episode prefers to just preach its moral message without realism or nuance because challenging that assertion would be work. And before you ask, no, I am not a cynic who just thinks heroes should kill the villains and be done. I like the moral high ground, I like heroes who refuse to kill (or at least do everything they can to avoid it) because it clearly seperates them from who they fight. But I like that message portrayed intelligently and with respect, not just blurted out. It's a tough thing, standing by your morals. It's not easy to look at a murdering monster and say "No, I won't kill them." It is, itself, a conflict. And one without a clear right or wrong side. This show removed that, and portrayed it as right despite all logic wanting to counter that claim, with no rationale to support it. It's the thematic equivelant of an overpowered protagonist effortlessly defeating all their enemies despite having no feasible skillset or assets simply because they need to win to move the story forward.

    It's dumb and toothless, and for a show that thinks it's so smart and edgy, it's disappointing. This is what I and others mean when we say Prime is pretentious. It brings up dark themes, mature converations, and high stakes, but only on a semantic level with none of the depth they deserve. It's why despite TFA being a seemingly innocent kid's show with less death and mature overt themes, it's more respected because what mature themes it does bring in it handles well and with dignity. Same with Beast Wars. Yes, it doesn't have the same level as grit or darkness as Prime, but it also does not utterly fail at attempting those gritty and dark themes. Prime unecessarily picks a fight it could never possibly win and wants to be praised for its courage.

    *sigh* And the backwards morals/hypocracy isn't done yet.

    Also, how come instead of Miko using up her strength and air to bang on his foot, Bulkhead just... shouted? Like, he doesn't breathe, he doesn't expend anything doing that. Just yell.

    This is the best part of the episode. Starscream so far has been shown as a wonderfully nuanced character who wants to be in charge, but is not ignorantly stupid about everything he needs to do to get there. His ambition is much more realistic, and him having to constantly eek and wriggle his way out from under Megatron is the most endearing part. He's not as powerful as TFA Starscream so he can't just out-and-out challenge him, but he's not so stupid like G1 Starscream as to only think halfway. He really was a great character.
     
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  8. Chopperface

    Chopperface Holtzmanned

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    Split you're spitting so much brilliance ugh

    And yeah I liked that Starscream took a second thought and remembered that Megs came back from way worse than a cave-in for starters. That little scene was golden.

    Man this episode could've really helped Miko grow but nope, can't have that. Not even in arguably the most traumatic episode so far for her. And I actually forgot about Rock Bottom when OP talked about the "next episode". :lol 

    Next episode is one of my top 10.
     
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  9. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP AKA Beve Stuscemi

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    Next episode might actually be my favourite.
     
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  10. Chopperface

    Chopperface Holtzmanned

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    It also has one of my favorite TF Wiki captions ever involving a certain cute, yellow, and chubby casualty of the Beast Wars. :lol 
     
  11. CaptainSlayer

    CaptainSlayer Bayfomer Fan

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    I see your point and though it didn't hit me in the same way upon first viewing, I think I can agree with you.

    However, I am a little confused about why you put the blame on Arcee so much when she wasn't with Jack when he found Megatron? Maybe he didn't mention that TronCon was stuck in the rocks until after they were out or maybe Arcee knew but prioritized getting her people out first?

    Since this takes place off screen I don't know which one really happened. I also like the moral high ground in most scenarios but whenever I watch a WWII movie, I like to see Hitler killed. I don't care how it happens or how good of a person the hero is, if you see Hitler, kill him.

    I didn't even think about Bulkhead just yelling. That for sure would have been better than a rock on a foot...
     
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  12. Honorbound

    Honorbound The Reclusive Semi-Lurker

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    It's actually arguable that the most moral thing to do would have been to just kill Megatron - if he's dead, then he won't be hurting anyone else or ruining any more lives. Now, whether Jack should have been the one to do it is another thing - I may want to see the villain die, but I'm very reluctant to see a child be the one to kill him. It's the same reason why, despite my pro-"kill the villain and be done with it" stance, I'm okay with Aang not killing Ozai: he's a child. Children should never have to make this kind of decision, and they should damned well never be on a battlefield to begin with.

    I should have been commenting earlier, but I didn't want my negativity impacting your viewing experience (and I was lazy, which is a bit of a recurring theme). I've always felt like the Darkness Rising five-parter was a different show than the rest of the series.
     
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  13. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Hammer of the Gunplas

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    Given what Split said, you'd best expect this to keep going. You've finally stumbled upon one of the many, many reasons why Prime eventually becomes so detested.

    Off topic but I disagree about Aang not killing Ozai - in that world, bending is a major cultural status symbol, particularly with the Fire Nation. Not to say your whole 'don't let a child kill' thing isn't correct, because I agree with the sentiment, but what Aang did was worse. Ozai was basically stronger than any other firebender in the entire show by a magnitude of a thousand already, but then that comet basically made him all that on crack. He was short of a god.

    Aang, of course, beat his shit in and then took away Ozai's powers. He's still alive, but Aang took from him everything that had supported him as the Fire Lord and then Phoenix King by removing his firebending, leaving Ozai nothing but a pathetic wretch who had been brought down from near demi-god status by a mere child (that child being the one thing closer to a god than Ozai in the entire setting nothwithstanding, of course). Aang condemned Ozai to a life in prison as a shadow of his former self. Death would have been the easier route, but then Ozai wouldn't have suffered any true repercussions from his warmongering.
     
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  14. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP AKA Beve Stuscemi

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    Because she was the one who decided to not go back and finish him off. While Jack made the decision in the moment, Arcee reinforced it and doubled down on "it's not what Optimus would've done." I absolutely get why she didn't finish him off right then and there, but at the end of the episode everyone is safe and Megatron is still trapped, and the option to end him and the war is still there. And again, it's Arcee, the most revenge-driven good guy since, like, Depth Charge.

    Honestly, if it was just Jack, it wouldn't have been a problem. He's a kid, he's not expected to grasp the scale of this war. But Arcee reaffirming his choice without arguement or rebuttal takes it from a character's choice to a writer's choice as acted upon through their characters, for no other reason then they can't end the series right then and there. If they had, through an actual dialogue, come to the conclusion not to kill megatron, even then I'd be fine with that. But it was so juvinile...

    ...Especially since it revolves around the great and mighty Megatron being trapped under rocks. That's just kinda silly to me, that he can't blast or dig his way out. He's totally helpless under a few boulders.

    See, this is the kinda dialogue I'd have expected from the characters in this ep. Make a moral choice into a moral quandry. Don't just state one side as absolute truth when there's more to it than that. It could've been a truely thought-provoking situation glossed over in a footnote.

    It's one of the reasons the next episode is so much better by comparrison.
     
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  15. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Hammer of the Gunplas

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    The problem I find with the Autobots in this show, and Arcee most of all, is that at the end of the day, they're both still at war and yet, somehow, they are completely oblivious to the fact they are still at war.
     
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  16. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP AKA Beve Stuscemi

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    The show is almost confused by its small cast. It wants a TFA/BW level of small scale scuffles in a lower stakes conflict, yet constantly reminds us that this war is galactic and the enemies have an entire army. This is a really hard thing to do, especially when you have a small team in a fixed location.

    It forces the heroes to be incredibly unstoppable and the villains woefully inept to not just raze the planet and call it a day. I don't think we ever get an explanation for why the Decepticons don't just use their immeasurable power to curb stomp humanity fuck off to greener space-pastures. They have an endless supply of troops and yet only ever deploy them one at a time in easy-to-manage groups for Autobots to pew-pew through. The overwhelming force of the enemy can never be properly dispatched in this environment, which makes them seem, well, not all that threatening.
     
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  17. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Hammer of the Gunplas

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    My favorite detail in all this is that Starscream, arguably, has been the best version of Starscream in terms of leader. Megaton just abandons everything for several years to find some mythical bullshit that really does nothing but allow him to raise a zombie army, without declaring a replacement leader, and Starscream steps up to the plate and for three straight years managed to not only keep the Decepticon presence completely under the radar of the Autobots, but also have at least one major Energon mining operation as well. Then, the first time the Decepticons and Autobots make contact again, Starscream only lost a few generic soldiers in return for killing one sixth of all Autobots on Earth in one single stroke.

    Then, what happens the moment Megaton comes back? The energon mine is completely destroyed, the autobots know the cons are back, and ultimately the Decepticons lose the Space Bridge and almost Megatron, too! Ever since then, Megatron has not proven to be even fractionally as efficient a leader as Starscream was in his absence.
     
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  18. Awesomepow

    Awesomepow Well-Known Member

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    Yeah...TFP sucked in that aspect.
     
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  19. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP AKA Beve Stuscemi

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    This really bugs me. When TFA Megs came back after a season long absence, he made his return a big one. He trashed the Autobots and almost got the Allspark before Optimus shattered the Allspark with the key. And despite being blown away, he survived and immediately formed a new plan.

    Prime Megs has done literally nothing. He has no plan that's obvious to the audience, he's not shown to be doing anything except standing around, and makes no effort to actually confront the Autobots. Yet the show treats him like the biggest bad.
     
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  20. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Hammer of the Gunplas

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    Megatron was a goddamn head and he still posed a significant threat (including the potential destruction of all Detroit because he didn't give a shit). And when he came back, they had to cut out a scene of him fighting the dinobots because he was legitamately kicking so much ass that they had to tone it down. And THEN he got the AllSpark and Prime had to detonate it in Megatron's chest, irrevocably shattering it into a billion pieces and thus while Megatron was denied the AllSpark, Prime had to go for the 'nobody wins' action because it was the only action...and even then that didn't stop Megatron from simply switching gears to something that was equally powerful an advantage.

    He then spent most of the next season sitting on a throne, the rest of the Decepticons doing his dirty work, but this only made him truly more powerful. Because when he had to get involved personally, damn near nothing could stop him and the first two times the Autobots had to make huge sacrifices (AllSpark shattering, the destruction of the Space Bridge and the loss of Omega Supreme), while the third time when Megatron finally remembered Prime's name because the latter was fully upgraded, the two fought to a damn near standstill with heavy damage and Prime simply won by having slightly more endurance.

    Sounds like the live action films.

    Megatron is simply overused in Prime, a flaw of how the core Decepticon team is only three guys initially and only two of them even talk. Knock Out and Breakdown somewhat alleviated the issue by being lesser ranked punching bags who could still hold their own against the Bots like Bulkhead, but for all they hype Megatron up as being some kind of godly ex-gladiator, he spends 99% of his time trying to supplement his considerable forces of vehicons, who when organized in small groups WAS enough to overwhelm Cliffjumper.
     
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