Avengers vs X-Men: next event

Discussion in 'Comic Books and Graphic Novels' started by ILoveDinobot, Dec 6, 2011.

  1. Scantron

    Scantron Well-Known Member

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    How about another legendary idea: What if the Avengers and X-Men fought some supervillains instead of each other? "[Superhero team] vs [superhero team]" seems to be one of the main recurring plots at Marvel these days. And it does largely seem to be a Marvel thing; I mean, when was the last time an event revolved around the Justice League fighting the Justice Society?

    They did already and it was less than impressive, partially because they let the readers vote on the outcomes of some of the battles. The Amalgam Universe it produced was fun, though.
     
  2. Star Saber

    Star Saber Primus Hates You!

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    Oh God, I hope not, they already made him a Phoenix in Astonishing Spidey/Wolverine, that would just be rehashing too soon :p 

    As for Rogue, I don't know about you guys, but I find Marvel made her more boring when they took away her Ms Marvel powers, seems she's a lot more angsty now, a conscious decision maybe to follow the X-Men movies.
     
  3. Omegatron

    Omegatron Mandatory Fun. Buy it now TFW2005 Supporter

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    From the chat at Newsarama, there will be a 'definite' winner from this. I'm betting on The Avengers, as this could be used as a catalyst to make the X-Men more feared and hated by those they've sworn to protect, blah blah blah.
     
  4. Star Saber

    Star Saber Primus Hates You!

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    Given Marvel's latest trend of non resolutions to big crossovers, I sincerely doubt it. House of M, Civil War, Secret Invasion, Siege, Fear Itself all have had either non resolutions or completely gone off the original conflict that its hard to believe they won't try and sucker us into some spin offs.

    Also how redundant is this? We've gotten the X-Men vs Avengers fighting in YA:Children's Crusade because the Avengers want to protect Scarlet Witch, who was responsible for threatening all reality. Don't tell me we're getting the same conflict this time because the X-Men want to protect Phoenix who will be threatening all reality.
     
  5. hthrun

    hthrun Show accuracy's overrated

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    Yep, despite all the advertising that every single event will "change the Marvel Universe forever in cataclysmic ways!!!!" :eek: 
     
  6. Cast

    Cast Roll the dice

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    This over and over, DC have gone to far now but still with marvel its going to be the only way to get rid of all the crap they have pilled on over the years.
     
  7. Darkravager

    Darkravager Zombie Hunter

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    Wow! Marvel heroes fighting other Marvel heroes?! Amazing! I haven't seen this done since...last year.
     
  8. ILoveDinobot

    ILoveDinobot Arise Rodimus Prime

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    Hope is secretly replaced with a Skrull. hat would be new. :p  Honestly though I am just so excited for Cable's return. He's in my top 10 favorite superheroes.
     
  9. Star Saber

    Star Saber Primus Hates You!

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    In fairness though, what makes Marvel different from DC is that since it's beginning, they have stuck largely to one single continuity for its mainstream universe, and for some that's what makes it special. They have done a much better job managing their continuity as opposed to DC's huge mess one of one where you can't tell what happened where and when and required multiple mini-series and events just to set some things straight. It's ironic that even in this particular reboot, DC still hasn't managed to give their heroes a clean slate, and will most likely require another cleanup or long winded explanation to set things straight.

    I think Marvel has learned though that new continuities can only do so much, given what happened with the Ultimate Universe. They created a brand new universe for readers without any continuity to drag it down. Unfortunately, you cannot avoid continuity, and the longer you go, the more continuity you will build up, and you'll eventually be stuck in the same place, which is why I think they re-envisioned the Ultimate Universe to be a place where they could tell stories they'd never be able to do in the Marvel Universe (i.e. really kill Spidey and Wolverine)
     
  10. hthrun

    hthrun Show accuracy's overrated

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    Yeah, usually what happens with new continuities is they end up rehashing what was already done in the previous one... That's why I really liked the "Spider-Man Unlimited" TV show. It was completely new and unique from previous Spider-Man series... at least that I know of...
     
  11. Cybermnky

    Cybermnky Well-Known Member

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    It was mostly new that's true, the comics did have the High Evolutionary creating/finding a Counter-Earth, but it didn't play out at all like the show. Unfortunately the show was just bad, and didn't really deserve more than the one season it got.
     
  12. RabidYak

    RabidYak Go Ninja Go Ninja Go

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    Continuity isn't inherently a barrier to making new and good comics, its just that Marvel and DC are crap at managing it and have a publishing model that isn't at all conductive to producing said comics. Plus my usual spiel about readers actively encouraging them to keep doing things wrong by buying more copies of stuff they supposedly don't like then the things they supposedly do.

    Its not like i'm exclusively comparing them to comics that are creator owned or produced by a single writer either. Dark Horse generally make decent Star Wars comics in minefields imposed on them from outside and Judge Dredd is pretty much the ideal model of how you should go about doing this sort of thing. The only problem with the latter is that you can't get away with selling violent satire to kids anymore.

    Shit, even Marvel were getting allot of it right in the 00s before they regressed back to the 90s.
     
  13. Star Saber

    Star Saber Primus Hates You!

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    The above was also true for Star Trek, which kept a very tight continuity until the recent film reboot. However, the universe(s) and characters populating their fiction pales in comparison to the amount being handled by Marvel, which makes it a bit more difficult to maintain. In addition, due to the nature of Marvel's media empire, they cater to a much wider audience than Star Wars, Star Trek or Judge Dredd, meaning the business side of their companies will require them to put out titles appealing to certain areas of demographic, totally eschewing continuity or maintaining it depending on the audience.

    However, continuity or not, good writers do find ways to tell good stories, it's just the matter of getting those good writers on board to be more consistent. I find that due to Marvel's comic publishing nature right now, they instead choose to focus on making large events or sales gimmicks, instead of consistently producing good stories.
     
  14. RabidYak

    RabidYak Go Ninja Go Ninja Go

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    This is only a problem because Marvel has turned it into one by obsessively trying to cross sell thier titles, making comics that are actually ABOUT continuity rather then just taking place inside it and by making thier publishing business reliant on a small group of customers that actually seem to want these things. There genrerally isn't any good creative or story reason for doing this shit, they just do it because it meants the 100,000 people that are still blindley obsessed what Spider-Man or the X-Men are doing buy 5 to 10 comics a month instead of 1 or 2.


    I don't see this as an excuse at all personally. Aside from the fact that only a fraction of Marvel's output is targeted outside the wednesday crowd, comics that involve less or no continuity are easier to write and edit.

    Which isn't going to change until thier remaining customers buy more consistant comics then event comics or until thier steady sales decline reaches the point where Disney decide that they aren't getting enougth return for thier investment and take matters into thier own hands. If books like X-Factor and Spider-Girl were thier biggest sellers, we probably woulden't be having most of this conversation.
     
  15. Spartan Prime

    Spartan Prime is an apathetic douchebag

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    Hopefully John Cen-... err, sorry, Wolverine sees the error of his ways and jumps back on board with the mutant community. I've never been a fan of the overhyped ferret, but the sheer amount of hypocrisies in his bailing on Cyclops are far too overpowering for me to give him any leeway until he gets his shit straight.

    And from the promo pic, Storm is fighting Ironman. She's with the X-Men, not the Avengers.

    Yes, but mutantkind wasn't near extinct at that point. They were thriving and trying to fit in. Then they began to overrun the human population and when M-Day hit, they were dwindled to less then 200 total, where as the day before they were in the... what, hundred-millions, if I recall correctly? If that doesn't call for a more "extreme" approach, I don't know what would.

    Everyone keeps bashing Cyclops for the change in direction, no one seems to ever look at the situation though. He's a dick? He's always been a dick. He has no sense of humor aside from the occasional deadpan line or two, he's a leader first and leaves little room for anything else, and he analyzes everything to the letter. Blame Xavier for that, Charles and Cyclops both did. My point, is that I don't see Cyclops as being "wrong" in anything he's done since M-Day. Frankly, they've been works of tactical genius, pissed on by grumpy "friends" who weren't able to cope with the things he was doing because of the situation they were in.

    I can't wait to see everything come crashing down around Logan's head. Everyone berated and abandoned Scott for ordering X-Force as a hit squad when they had actual targets of value and priority. Wolverine still leads X-Force for no real reason but cause. When Beast and Iceman, hell even Kitty find out? They'll either bail, kick him out of the new school, or not give a shit only on account of horrible character writing. Logan's supposed to be the soldier. Cyclops was the boy scout. Cyke cowboy'd up and Logan pussed out. I've said it time and again, if anyone should have had an issue with kids being trained for combat and used to fight, it shouldn't have been anyone Logan affiliates with. He has a longer list of teen-sidekicks than anyone in Marvel.

    If this whole X-Men/Avengers thing is about Jean? I'm on the X-Men's side. If it's about the Phoenix in general? X-Men should head any effort while the Avengers provide backup. Otherwise there's no reason for them to fight about it.

    If it's about Hope becoming the Phoenix (which has been alluded to time and again), I can see how the Avengers can see it as a threat warranting their presence, but the fight the X-Men on it? Well, it's been said and I'm circling right back around to it: bad writing.
     
  16. Tekkaman Blade

    Tekkaman Blade Professor of Animation

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    People always forget that he left his wife and son when Jean Grey came back to life. He left his wife to chase after a girl that looked exactly the same. His wife it turned out later was a clone. But one of the main reasons it was so easy to turn her evil was how pissed she was at Scott. During the blue and gold days he used to spend a lot of time staring at Psylocke. Much to jeans annoyance. Then in the Grant Morrison run he had a physic affair with the white queen. It became a real one as soon as jean died. So yes he's been a Dick for a long time. But that usually had to do with women. In the old comics he used to have a sense of humor and a personality, and when it came down to the nit and gritty he was a real hero. He was always the one to question people's motives and try to do the right thing.(Unless it had to do with women)
     
  17. Star Saber

    Star Saber Primus Hates You!

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    Yes, he's always been compassionate. I can't remember exactly but I think he even had an X-men don't kill rule. That one's been changed for a lot of characters though, Marvel's been getting off that rule with their boy scout characters like Cap (that one was funny though given he's a soldier)
     
  18. RabidYak

    RabidYak Go Ninja Go Ninja Go

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    I've always seen Cyclops as being pathetic when it comes to women rather then a dick. He idolises Jean to the point where he marries somebody who looks exactly like her after she dies, abandons his kid when the original comes back and later psycically cheats with another dominating telepath because he thinks that he isn't good enougth for her anymore.

    Eyeing up hot women when you have a wife/girlfriend? Most dudes on Earth do that, the only difference is whether they get caught or not.
     
  19. Tekkaman Blade

    Tekkaman Blade Professor of Animation

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    Marvel can't have boyscout type characters anymore, everyone seems to need to be screwed up in some way, shape or form. Heck they even had their poster boy make a deal with the devil.
     
  20. Star Saber

    Star Saber Primus Hates You!

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    Guy has balls though, 3 of em are telepaths who can read his mind. Psylocke owned up to psychic manipulation though :lol 
     

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