Autobots, Decepticons, 2 different races or factions?

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by Sideswipe80, Jan 19, 2010.

  1. Sideswipe80

    Sideswipe80 Well-Known Member

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    I like the idea of them being 2 different factions. But sometimes it seems they are portrayed as 2 different races. For Example, in Animated the Decepticons appear to be a different race. If you read the Safeguard comic story, Sentinel Prime mentions to Magnus how Autobots don’t fly and Magnus mentions how they used Decepticon DNA obtained from Starscream.

    I could be wrong, but I think there were times in G1 where it was implied they were 2 different races. What are your opinions on this subject?
     
  2. Murasame

    Murasame CHIMICHANGAS

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    No, Autobots were manufactured as consumer hardware and Decepticons as military hardware.
     
  3. Backscatter

    Backscatter Autobot Brainmaster TFW2005 Supporter

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    One race, 2 different (or more i.e neutral or loyal to Unicron etc.) factions.
     
  4. redoptics

    redoptics Banned

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    from what i remember in the g1 cartoon decepticons were military, and autobots non-military and the autobots came about the art of transforming.
     
  5. Sideswipe80

    Sideswipe80 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah that was the origin the cartoon.
     
  6. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    It really depends on the continuity, but I think the majority of them treat the transformers as the same species, just split along political factions. I like that interpretation, though its not to say its the only valid one. Whether the cause of the war is greed, a rejection of the caste system in place, or some other social reason, I think it makes the whole war a lot more interesting, in that everyone fighting really needs a REASON to be on the side they're on.

    Other instances where they get treated as different races due to their original designs or job descriptions can also be pretty good, but can get both interesting and dangerous when you get into "Decepticons are only following their programming" territory.
     
  7. Macross7

    Macross7 Well-Known Member

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    Stick to factions unless you want Transformers to be a race war.
     
  8. Necrophon

    Necrophon Speaker of Death TFW2005 Supporter

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    As far as anything I can remember they are 1 race 2 factions. The idea of Transformers being an allegory for a race war is a can of worms that I hope is never opened.
     
  9. sto_vo_kor_2000

    sto_vo_kor_2000 Banned

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    And thats pretty much the "equivalent" of them being 2 different races.
     
  10. Spoiler

    Spoiler Autobot Spoiler

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    Oh, the can has been opened. Because hating Autobots or Decepticons is RACIST! I can see it now...
     
  11. Darkwing48

    Darkwing48 Heroic Decepticon

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    Cops and Robber man. Cops and Robbers. Look at their personalities. No way it could be chassis based. Or else Warpath and Omega Supreme will be Decepticons and Soundwave and the cassettes and Tankor will be Autobots
     
  12. Coeloptera

    Coeloptera Big, bad beetle-bot

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    I just mentioned in the "Magic" thread that there's no way Autobots like Powerglide and Warpath are "consumer goods".

    Also, just looking at the cartoon, we had the occasional (if short-lived) defection, indicating that faction is indeed just a matter of which side they want to be on.

    Even if we take the G1 'toon and go with the two functions, that's like saying a AH64 Apache and a Bell 430 are different "species", when they're both single-rotor helicopters.

    Most continuities make it out to be factional anyway, although the Beast series did make it unclear what being a Predacon meant if you weren't part of Megatron's crew.

    - Coeloptera
     
  13. Digilaut

    Digilaut My name is Drift.

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    Depends on the continuity.

    I'm not sure what I like better. It makes sense for them to be two races (military bots and worker bots), but I also like the idea of choosing sides really is a personal choice that has nothing to do with your body type..
     
  14. destrongerlupus

    destrongerlupus #MoreSawBoss

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    I think the reality is that in most continuities, it's BOTH race AND faction.

    Most robots born/built/sparked in one camp stay in that camp and share the traits of their fellows.

    I.e. Most Autobots are ground-based, have civillian alt modes, and due to programmming/cultural-influences/whatever, choose to BE Autobots.

    Most Decepticons can fly, have military or animal alt-modes, and due their programming etc. choose to BE Decepticons.

    Once in a while a variation pops up.

    You get a Warpath (Physically, and even attidudinally, very Decepticon, but {presumably} "born" into the Autobots, and content to stay there), or a Jetfire (Born to the Decepticons, shares most Decepticon traits, but because of various reasons decides to join the Autobots)

    Alternately, sometimes One Group or the other will intentionally mimic certain traits of the other side (Dinobots, Aerielbots, Stunticons...). The Dinobots area good example of how Decepticon-Style-Robots-Built-For-By-And-To-Be-Autobots might end up defecting to their closer kin (Grimlock decided to stick with the 'Bots in the end, but he strongly considered the switch)

    Because we're talking ROBOTS and programming, and all that sci-fi'y goodness, it's all very muddied, but for me the evidence speaks to two disntinct (But closely related) races (Probably NOT two different species...) who may or may not end up in one of two political factions.

    Without even GETTING controversial, the parallel in our own society would be the difference between Race and Nationality.

    To pick a LARGE and mostly homogenous population, let's like Japan, our brand's shared-motherland.

    Most of the people living in Japan would consider themselves to be racially Japanese, as well as Nationally Japanese. However there are many (though comparatively fewer) Non-Racially-Japanese people who are still Nationally Japanese. Likewise there are many people living abroad who self-identify as Racially Japanese, but who would identify themselves as having a different Nationality (Japanese-American, for instance).

    We have the benefit of living in a comparatively peaceful era, and most of us who care about robot-toys probably live in relatively peacful countries, so the distinctions may seem like splitting hairs. But in a war-torn world, these differences become very important. To extend the metaphor a little, take the tragic-but-generally-non-disputed-facts of what happened with the Japanese-American population in WWII.

    Some of the best TF stories IMO, have brushed up against these kinds of thorny issues of cultural-identity. G1 Jetfire's origin. G1 Dinobots defection. G1 Blitzwing's departure from the Decepticons. BW Megatron's revolt against the Predacon Empire. BW Ravage's questions of amnesty and loyalties.

    Blurring the lines makes it real, and makes for good story telling!

    D/L
     
  15. Rattrap Primal

    Rattrap Primal Geek Overlord

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    factions. The Autobots are normally more peaceful while the Decepticons are the war like faction. The Maximals, the descending faction from the Autobots, are the ruling faction of Cybertron while the Predacons are the group of maybe rebels (they never resolved the possiblity that the Maximals where corrupt, save for Primal's crew while the Predacons where merely abused pawns)
     
  16. Darkwing48

    Darkwing48 Heroic Decepticon

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    How can you consider "race" in robots anyway? Have you ever built something? Like saying Nissan is a different race than Ford. Although there is a vehicle that shares its engine.

    Functionality != Race.
    Hardware != Race.

    As far as it can go, the Quints seem like a different race. But all in all. Race? From an object with practically interchangeable and upgradable components?

    Is your word processor is a different race than your spreadsheet application? You pick and chose which hardware goes with which software.:rolleyes: 
     
  17. Murasame

    Murasame CHIMICHANGAS

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    My processor isn't sentient.
     
  18. destrongerlupus

    destrongerlupus #MoreSawBoss

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    The difference here is that TFs are LIVING machines (whatever that means in the real world ;) ), and are intelligent, and so "In-Fiction" the concept and question ARE valid.

    This argument doesn't wash. In humans different Races (And in animals, different breeds) are likewise interchangable and compatible. In most matters of biology, the "races" are mostly indistinguishable and compatible. But to argue that the concept of race is meaningless is mostly an absurd one (Though that argument HAS been made, and let's not go there, as that WOULD open the can of worms...)


    I take your point, but I would argue that a Mac and a PC are probably different "races." They're of the same species, and within some contexts they work perfectly fine together, but in many ways they're also very different.
     
  19. Team Jetfire

    Team Jetfire Pop-POP!

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    Hmm...good question.

    In the movie verse They would be the same race, with differnt ideals. (Becuase Prime and Megs are Brothers)

    In Animated, they seemed a lot different from each other is the way of size and structure, so they could be a differnt race.

    But I seem to remember that there are some story archs where there is a lot of side changing and you can't change your race...

    So I would say, not different races, only different factions.
     
  20. G1Decepticons

    G1Decepticons Banned

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    they are the same arce they are all transformers. i think they were programmed for 2 different things though.
     

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