Are you tired of TFs being compared with Marvel?

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Russian fan, Jul 16, 2017.

  1. electronic456

    electronic456 擎天柱

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    Marvel scores? Like the Danny Elfman Spider Man score or the Avengers score. Those are the rare standouts for me.


    And what does the last sentence even mean????

    In fact:


    EDIT: Even the DCEU has better music. Do your ears recognise the music that plays during Man of Steel or Wonder Woman?
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017
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  2. motorthing

    motorthing Shine Off You Crazy Diamond

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    It's a Transformers Board, so some around here don't want to acknowledge anything else as being "better." Marvel is different, and like it or not the current Industry Gold Standard for how to get things both right and financially successful while carrying mainstream audience and fandom along. That's all.

    Do I wish TF - The Film Franchise was more in tune with that? Absolutely. Will it ever happen? Not under the current Producers, but maybe one day.

    Hope springs.
     
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  3. electronic456

    electronic456 擎天柱

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    Hey, I recognize which one does things better but even then some of the little things stick out more.

    I just wish along with good movies, I can get some good music for the ride. Why do I remember the themes for Superman, the Dark Knight and so much more better compared to the recent Marvel movies?
     
  4. smkspy

    smkspy is one nice fucking kitty

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    Here's the thing Marvel has a formula that works, introduce new hero in Iron Man rework, slightly tie it to the larger the universe, make Avengers films, make sequels, continue tieing more characters from solo films in those sequels. It works well.

    Transformers has had one formula. Make a shitty plot movie with great special effects. Make shitty plot sequels with great special effects. Problem is, if you've seen the first shitty plot movie with great special effects, there really isn't much difference in the latest shitty plot with great special effects. And this idea of a larger shared universe is just that at this point, an idea.

    Other than which special effects are better, there isn't really to compare.
     
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  5. BarricadeLives

    BarricadeLives i'm you! i'm your shadow!

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    what bothers me more is people that refuse to criticize the marvel films or pretend they are some kind of high form of art.

    i love how they implemented the cinematic universe...truly genius but the films themselves? i mean they're ok if not slightly overrated..their biggest draw is the 'wow factor' of seeing guys from other movies in another hero's movie, which don't get me wrong is awesome but should be wearing off any day now..

    to each their own but to the op's point, yes i am tired of it because it was obvious paramount pushed the panic button & decided NOW was the time for a cinematic universe, 5 films in & now is that time? incredulous...outrageous....why? all because they saw marvel do it & wanted to copy? so i don't blame marvel for other people trying to ride their coattails for a quick profit but i am tired that every film now 'HAS' to have some kind of eu attached, it seems

    they unfortunately killed both their live action filmverse & you can kiss the eu goodbye as well at this point.

    should have finished the double-trilogy bayverse & THEN reboot in 6 or so years after with a full cast of characters ripe for the eu
     
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  6. NotRamjet97

    NotRamjet97 Hollo!

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    Yes. I'd even objectively argue Ant-Man has every single flaw people say the TF movies have, and that the first Avengers movie is a more boring copy of DOTM.

    There are certainly some movies I enjoyed (Civil War, Age of Ultron), but so many of them just ARE mediocre, and people excuse a lot more with them. I mean, both Captain America sequels have the exact same plot: Cap's running away.
     
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  7. smkspy

    smkspy is one nice fucking kitty

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    Avengers AoU pretty much has the same plot of Gotg2. Iron Man 3 was total garbage.

    I think people look past all thise because Marvel has laid out a clear path for the future. We know all the big movies and collective events coming now, so there is a lot more hype even for mediocre origin movies.

    Plus, marvel just has such an extensive universe to draw from that transformers really doesn't. Transformers can reinvent their designs, but the narrative pretty hasn't changed much since G1 began. I mean, Marvel could easily throw a Hawkeye and Black Widow spy movie at us. Transformers just can't do that.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017
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  8. Prime17

    Prime17 Seeker

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    The MCU has several great movies under it's belt. The Bay Films? Only TF1 is almost universally agree to be decent to good. When you have a series of movies that are seen as bad, it's inevitable they'll be compared to much better movies.
     
  9. sevenlima

    sevenlima Well-Known Member

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    Some poeple think all these movie are the same thing.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017
  10. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

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    I don't think people are calling the Marvel/Disney movies high art or flawless but rather that Marvel/Disney has cracked the code of what will make both critics and the average ticket buyer happy. Plenty of flaws like plot holes, faulty logic, or depending on too many characters to do something dumb at exactly the right time. I think there was even an interview somewhere where one of the directors admitted the lack of great film villains not named Loki.

    Marvel/Disney seems to have worked out that if you give people the hero's journey thing then people will get hooked on that character because that trip to be a hero makes for a strong connection for some viewers. With the established heroes Marvel/Disney could expand out to build up more characters around the hero people are hooked on. While the scale varies from the personal to the grand save the Earth scale the basic building blocks of the Marvel/Disney movies are almost exactly the same. But Marvel/Disney figured out a host of little tricks to make it feel like you aren't watch the same movie.

    A common complaint you hear with Transformers is people feeling it's exactly like the other Transformers movies they have seen just with different magical McGuffins or a different way to destroy all life on Earth.
     
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  11. ZeroiaSD

    ZeroiaSD Autobot

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    If you've got a number of good to great examples, people are more likely to brush over the bad, yea. I think a lot of it is a, well, people *like* the Marvel characters more.


    As for other successful cinematic universes, I can think of one: Star Wars. But that's an even less fair comparison ^^

    Hm, Legendary Godzilla is currently working on one but at two movies in it's a baby CU...
     
  12. Russian fan

    Russian fan Proud Autobot Ally TFW2005 Supporter

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    Seriously, what are you doing here? Hatred is not the best thing in the universe:lol 
    I have a feeling that the most didn't read me. As always. Haha*sigh

    You say that Marvel movies are successful? Wait, TFs aren't? Oh, yeah, you look only to domestic box-office, because there are no people and theaters outside US, I forget about this, sorry:lol 

    I personally can't find anything outstanding in Marvel Movies. All their films are made on conveyor. Make a cool suit for superhero, show him or her in ordinary situations, understandable for audience, add some typical love story, make a couple of standard heroic music tracks and add a few moments, involving characters from other Marvel movies to "tie" everything. And salt it with a cheap humor. Everything is standard. No aliens. No space for theories, mythology. No deep parallels, no chilling moments. No inspiration. You, guys, so often complain that villains never win in TF-Movies. Do they win in Marvel? Haha, they usually can't cause big problems. And haven't any personality at all. By the way, many Marvel Movies have a weak plot TLK is so similar to Marvel, but you hate TLK even more than ROTF (for me ROTF is amazing). The problem, why this Movies are considered as the standard, because they're numerous and everyone watch them. People usually like stereotypes. And comics are very old. And every second human in this world was a Marvel fan in some period of the life. Even I was a Spiderman fan when I was 9. It was horrible time:lol  Thanks to Beast Wars, they saved me!

    And, yeah, I don't speak about CU, I speak about Movies, because Transformers Movies aren't cinematic universe (they could become, but it's bad idea). Marvel has many characters with some backstory. I personally don't like it. It distract you from the main line, main meaning, values of the Movie. TFs are always (from 80's) concentrated around 3 Transformers and you know them. And it makes the story whole and deeper, because you not only can show more about experiences and actions of the main heroes, but other side characters express their attitude to them every moment. And it makes main personalities multifaceted, viewed from different angles. Yeah, and Sam and Cade are also characters. They have the same importance as TFs!

    I personally don't like to compare something, maybe because I'm woman, I don't seek a logic in art and feeling. You need a cold logic, when you buy photocamera for 2000$, but not when you're watching the movie. You do it to get emotion. And Transformers give me a catharsis. Marvel give me nothing. That's all.
     
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  13. Mako Crab

    Mako Crab Well-Known Member

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    Let's try this from a different angle.

    If the TF movies were crafted & received as well as the MCU, & people kept asking, which one is better, would anyone care about the comparison? Yeah, probably not.

    If the roles were reversed & the MCU sucked, would people care if everyone kept harping on the MCU to get its act together & be more like the TFCU? Again, probably not.

    The comparisons are gonna happen whether the TF movies are held in high regard or not. Their place as a major summer tentpole puts them in direct competition with Marvel & invites comparisons.

    I will say this, there is something terribly wrong with the TF movies, when audience fatigue has set in after 5 movies, & meanwhile Marvel is up to like 17 & still going strong.

    I think it boils down to none of the TFs having (barely) anything resembling a character arc. They are just massive CGI props in the background.
    It's like, they chart out all this lore & mythology, & whip up crazy plots, but they don't seem to understand that without great characters to go on these adventures with, no one will care what happens to them.

    People always complain that the MCU has no good villains. They certainly don't have much in the way of recurring villains. But that's just it- people are going to see those movies for the heroes. The personalities of the title characters are strong enough to carry those movies. I doubt anyone cared what the fight was about in the first Avengers movie. It was pretty disposable alien invasion stuff. What people went to see was how all the Avengers would finally come together & how their personalities would play off each other. Egotistical Tony vs Apple Pie Steve. That stuff is gold.

    And then you have Optimus, who doesn't really interact with humans or his own Autobots much at all. He gives great speeches & doles out orders, but for all we know, he just sits parked in truck mode at NEST HQ or wherever between missions.

    Great characters can get an audience to overlook broken plots, cheap special effects & all kinds of stuff. If the characters are strong & appealing enough, audiences will go on that ride.
    But by the same token, if your characters are weak & as paper thin as the cast of TF: Energon, then even the best CGI & biggest explosions won't get them to stick around. Throw in a broken plot on top of weak characters & you see the kind of mass exodus from theaters TLK has had.
     
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  14. Livingdeaddan

    Livingdeaddan ...angel to others.

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    I'd like to say who cares what a bunch of canadians thinks! But actually the only marvel theme i can think of right now is Sandmans theme in SM3! :lol 
     
  15. ZeroiaSD

    ZeroiaSD Autobot

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    There's entire threads about how it crashed after opening in China too. While the US is it's worst market, it's the whole picture that's at issue. International takes can most definitely save a film sans US nowadays- Pacific Rim, Warcraft- but, ah, that's not so much the case.

    Marvel movies are pretty much a success by any metric- international definitely included- which is why so many studios are trying to do the cinematic universe thing.

    *Looks at the Guardians movies and the trailer for Thor: Ragnarok*

    I think that's actually some of the stuff that people really like about MCU.
     
  16. BarricadeLives

    BarricadeLives i'm you! i'm your shadow!

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    true, true..no doubt & id never say marvel's plan wasn't genius & executed relatively flawlessly but i do think they are about to reach critical mass where it becomes almost 'too much' which is inevitable i feel..once this current crop runs dry that is..i know i can only speak personally of course, i know im tired of superhero flicks, although i have been for quite some time now

    the fault lay on paramount & hasbro for trying to copy marvel instead of being bold again & doing their own thing
     
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  17. RorMachine

    RorMachine We Were Brothers Once!

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    Marvel is just a bunch of cluster fucks who are show off's and want attention :rolleyes: 
     
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  18. Pudglor Shmormuff

    Pudglor Shmormuff TFW2005 Supporter

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    I've never really thought of them as being comparable, because their concepts, to me, are so different that it doesn't make much sense to do that.

    (Points to TF movies) Giant robots.
    (Points to Marvel movies) Super Humans or humanoid mutants.
    Far from being similar- at least to me...

    Plus, the Marvel Movies might be slightly more popular/well received possibly because the audience can relate to some of the human-based issues that particular Marvel heroes might deal with VS "WITH THE ALLSPARK GONE, WE CANNOT RETURN LIFE TO OUR PLANET.."

    (Points to Peter Parker drooling and daydreaming about MJ) That we can relate to.
    (Points to a giant cube that shrinks and repairs any Transformer that gets remotely close to it) I don't have that shit in my house, nor have I ever seen anything like that in real life- so that, for me at least, is a bit tough to relate to. Just saying...

    There seem to more things in the Marvel movies that the audience can connect and relate with VS Transformers...we can't really relate to alot of their stuff, at least I can't, because the stuff they deal with is alien and from an entirely different world- so I feel less connected to it.

    If you want to see a bunch of robots murder each other- you watch the Bay movies.
    If you want to see a bunch super humans, mutants, or biological aliens fight other super humans, mutants, or biological aliens- AND possibly fall in love- you watch the Marvel movies.
    I just don't think it makes much sense to compare them.
     
  19. sevenlima

    sevenlima Well-Known Member

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    Mostly Marvel is based on storylines from the comics but TF ones is independent.
     
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  20. Incepticon

    Incepticon Well-Known Member

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    Was about to type exactly this.

    Unlike many other innovations or trends, not one single studio has remotely come close to what Marvel has done (and started 10 years ago), and it's as embarrassing as it just sad watching others even try... including DC and especially Hasbro/Transformers. Especially when virtually all of them made this decision WAY too long after Marvel was already doing it. It just makes them all look like lame copycat poseurs that have no unique ideas of their own.
     
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