No. You really didn't. Transformers doesn't even fit your complaint and you wanted to go *wide* and say it's all toys?

Sure. Okay. You got next on making this thread tomorrow, right? Want to make sure we've got coverage.

 

How long did it take you to silver sharpie the four wheels on one figure? Now multiply that time by hundreds of thousands... and there's the problem. It's the man hours that need to be paid for to paint those extra apps. Sure, factories will have methods and whatnot to speed up the process, but it still takes time, and thus money.

As to the OP question, yes and no. I find that that as long as I enjoy a companies product I'll continue to buy it. However, it's not just 'quality' which bugs me, it's cost too. Now, I'm a pretty big MOTU fan too, MOTU 200X was halcyon days indeed. But then Classics happened, and they were a Mattystore exclusive? And they always sold out in a flash and ended up on the aftermarket for shit tons of money?

They passed the point of how much I was comfortable with the amount of effort I needed to put in to source them as well as the cost so I voted with my wallet. No more MOTU from Mattel for me. I was out. I just had 'to make do' with my pretty extensive MOTU 200X collection. I buy the James Eatock books and vintage Golden books instead.

So for Transformers I don't buy 3P (not worth the cost) or MP anymore (again, cost. But if I can buy it for half the price in HK, I will) and it's slowly approaching the point when Deluxes and above will no longer be worth the cost for me.

Now, perhaps you might think that my way of collecting isn't as good as yours. You might think why am I not willing to pay lots of money for 3P (or indeed Masterpiece) whereas you are. You might think of me as 'a casual'. You might even think that compared to me, you're a 'tru fan'.

If anybody thinks that, then I'll maintain that you're a terrible person and I'm ashamed people like you are part of the fandom. What if I was gay? Would you cast aspersions on my lifestyle then? Because what I do with my money, or my time, or my hobbies, is strictly my business. I see so many so called 'fans' attempting to tier themselves in terms of how good a collector they are. So you reckon you're a 'betta kllctr' than me? Would it shock you to know that I literally don't give a shit? If you have a great collection, I'm happy for you. And literally, LITERALLY that's as far as it goes.

I may have the odd (constructive) criticsm (ie, I dislike overcrowded shelves) but I will not disparage other people's (healthy) collecting habits. Whether or not they've got insane MISB collections, or if they started last week. I will not look at someones collection pictures and say 'I don't see any G1, not a TRU FAN' (yes, some people do say that in response to @Maz's collector interviews). If someone wants to pay money for a vintage MISB toy and then open it, I DON'T CARE. I'm happy for them to do what they want with it.

If this falls on deaf ears and you still insist on judging other peoples collecting habits and holding yourself as 'us better than them' then really, organised religion is a much better way to justify your bigoted ways.

 

I thought the same to myself. I would not buy those toys for my kids, if I had some. The toys are too fragile, things pop off, etc. And they are too expensive. For myself that's okay, they stand safely behind glass and I collect them (toys, not kids). But for sane reasons I would not buy so many of them  

 

I feel ya bro. There is nothing worse than a broken toy in a childs hand. And although leniency should be given (after all children are not carefull), there are other companies who put effort in making their toys sturdy enough for children to handle.

 

Hahaha no.

 

I love the way you articulated your answer. How you conveined meaning, raised points, countered my arguements, with actual facts, logic and developed thought.
   


In other words:

 

Yeah, you're right. The collectors are the ones keeping the line going.

That's why Takara abandoned their variants for Hasbro's versions of PotP and why the MP line is all but dead in the US.

Face it. If we were as financially powerful as you think Titans wouldn't have suddenly stopped dead after Wave 4-5 while PotP revived the CW theme that was derided damn near daily on places like this.

Oh, also, don't comment on my effort when you can't even be bothered to put a transparency on your graphic, scurb.

 

Yeah because, the MP line is an inactive line for a decade, because the generations lines are not G1 based in their designs and all revolves around the US. I forgot that you guys forget that there is an outside world sometimes     

Effort?      , good joke. If you dont want people to comment on your 'effort' (god I am dying from laughter) go learn a thing or two about this fandom perhaps. As for graphics, yeah I am sure you dont even know what that means in the first place.

EDIT: Oh wait....You really thought I bothered making that for you didnt you?          Dont flatter yourself sweety.

Nice attempt at starting a flame war though, but its too elementary.

EDIT2: And read again what I said, because I never said it was the 'collectors' that keep the line up. Add comprehension to your list of fails (and Oh boy its a big one).

 

I'm generally just unhappy with Hasbro, since they produce everything that I was once interested in. But they're all in different ways:

Transformers: I've been unhappy with them since they replaced Alternators with the movie lines. I completely understand why they did, you have to promote your movie. But cancelling what I considered was their very best TF series ever was a big mistake in my eyes. They should have continued the line with a focus on adult collectors and let the films focus on the kids. Beyond, that I've just been really unhappy with how cheap their production quality is: hollow limbs, no paint applications, cheap plastic tires, the die-cast is gone, simplistic transformations, and endless repaints. G1 was guilty of repaints, I know - but what had only 2-3 repaints then is 12-15 today. All this, while watching the prices skyrocket.

Star Wars: I absolutely loved the 6" Black Series, right until they released that first Darth Vader. What a colossal disappointment. I did buy the 40th Anniversary version which was a huge upgrade, but I still couldn't find the want/need to collect this line. Double-jointed elbows became single joints, thoughtful, generous accessories were greatly reduced, paint jobs started to suffer. They were worth $20.00 a pop in the beginning, but not after that. Then there was the ridiculous SDCC exclusives. Boba Fett was great, but the Carbonite Han should have been made available to the public too. Jabba's retail release was a joke compared to what SDCC got.

G.I.Joe: They blew their load by releasing so many figures at a break neck pace. They over saturated retailers until they no longer became interested in carrying them, the movie lines were a massive disappointment, prices went up while the repaints became more and more excessive, and them BOOM - all gone. Now if you want a new Joe figure (that's still a direct repaint) you have to sign up for their fan club and pay absurd prices for a single figure. I was happy when they released the 50th Anniversary sets at TRU, but to this day I've only found one set from the latest assortment because their distribution was a joke and TRU barely stocked them.

Marvel Legends: This line I still dip into every so often mostly because they've been producing some great X-Men figures, but i still can't bring myself to collecting this series outside of that. So many lackluster characters, the constant repaints of the same male and female body sculpt. At this point, I don't even bother buying new because they release so many figures that I can find what I want on Amazon, Walgreens or clearance at Wal-Mart just months after release.

I concentrate on one main line now and that's Masterpiece. But honestly, most of my attention is going towards 3P instead of Hasbro/Takara as of late. I'm not happy with the toon-accurate focus they've been on, and the rising prices on pieces like MP39 make it difficult to justify.

I suppose what this is really about is just me getting old and realizing that my interest in the toy hobby industry isn't what it used to be and I've outgrown collecting these things for my enjoyment. It's getting increasingly difficult to justify spending my hard earned money on things that don't bring me as much enjoyment as they once did. Getting picky, and old sucks.

 

Agree with you, with the exception of one point

In my opinion, and I respect you concern fro rising prices, but I feel Sunstreeker is priced pretty fairly. He is one of the best looking MPs to be released in a little while and his transformation is amazing. Whether you like the toon accuracy or not, I believe he is one that is worth the asking price. Now MP36, and likely MP41? that is a different story (again, my opinion).

 

The decision was made years ago. It's not like it's some sort of crossroad right now.

1. Rescue Bots - pure kids line
2. Generations - appeals to older kids still playing with toys while also snagging a portion of the collector/nostalgia market
3. Movieverse - since this is seasonal, it has to straddle multiple age levels hence the one-steps/Generations style/Masterpiece
4. Masterpiece - strictly for the collector/nostalgia market

We probably wouldn't be having this discussion if Hasbro was releasing at least one or two Masterpiece figures every Quarter.

Also, I'm pretty sure the brand itself operates within a budget that is then dispersed between the development teams and manufacturing. So, if you are putting more money into the Movieverse one year, then another line will suffer as money shifts within the brand. I'm just glad Hasbro pushes Generations during movie years...it wasn't always that way. Back in 2007 and RotF, CHUG would virtually disappear...or get rolled into the movie line somehow.

 

I dissagree. Or is it perhaps that my post in there was not clear enough, but let me take it upside down:

The Movieverse and the Mp lines: Both of those cant decide what they are really. First of all you have cases of overtly complexity in their engineering toys (and they are toys) that are not to be triffled with from children. Then you have figures in the same line ridden with gimmics for kids, or that serve no purpose at all, compromising the figure.

Generations: Are still divided. Yes they are still kids, but they are not completely kids, since their designs are not something new, they are derived as you yourself say, from the past in an attempt to home on nostalgia.

And then we are having the RB, which is a pure toddler toyline.

So where does that bring us? 3 out of the 4 Toylines are a mixed bag. Catering to both kids and the so called adult collector. This is pretty much evident on both the price tags on certain of them and the complexity of the figures.

If we ignore the MP line completely and brand it as a pure adult line (which come on now, it isnt) we still have 2 mixed bags and a pure line. Do they attempt to take it towards kids? Id say probably. I dont like this direction, but if they want to solidify it, I will be happy. Because at least we wont trying to figure out what they are trying to achieve and we can just accept it and move on. But as things are now, they are quite muddy.

 

Thank you for your response. Believe me, I am tempted but I'd rather wait to see if a KO is released.

 

That's because you're looking at the line as a whole unit. Instead, you have to understand that the complex-Generations style figures are for the segment who buys Generations figures while the One-Steps are for kids (or collectors who like to have desk bots at work, like me). The movieverse line essentially is a buckshot to appeal to a wide net of consumers.

You are trying too hard to compartmentalize Generations in lieu of a lack of Masterpiece. Generations is meant to be sold in the toy aisle alongside the Black Label action figures (and for cheaper). Again, I don't think we'd be having this conversation if Hasbro cranked out the Masterpiece figures more often.

 

Its a fundamental action in the design process of a product line to identify its target group before it enters production. Therefore it is a whole unit, because its individual parts are designed with certain specifications that need to be ticked. There is no 'complex non-complex' inside the line. Or at least it wasnt up to the point where it was greenlighted. As an observer of the target group though, you can Identefy this flaw. The exceptions to the rule, are that: Exceptions that prove the rule, not the other way around.

One step changers dont suffer from that flaw hence why you wont see it.

And the movieverse is the idea crystalised by the designers themeselves.

You are the one who brings MP into this and I would say lets leave it out. I am dont compartmentalizing something that it doesnt do so by itself. Maybe not by consius design choice but Its clear to what the Generations line tried to appeal to, but it is also clear that they are stearing it also somewhere else, which was not intended, at least from the lines concept/design phase. The waters are muddy, they need to clear.

 

Hasbro is trying to make their movieverse product appealing across all age demos. I'm not certain why you don't understand that and believe that "There is no 'complex non-complex' inside the line" when that is exactly what Hasbro is aiming for in order to appeal to all age demos.

You are ignoring the fact that the waters are muddy on purpose because you are wanting an adult collector line from something that is being sold in the children's toy aisle. As long as you are willing to accept that Generations is made with both "kid appeal" and "parent appeal" both in mind, then it is exactly what it means to be.

But, let's say you get your wish.

What should Generations look like as an adult only collectable that we don't already have (Masterpiece)?

What should Generations look like as a "kid appeal only" line that we don't already have (RiD/Cyberverse)?

 

Trying been the keyword here. Our difference is on time. I say its trying, you seem to say that they are already there.

Thank you for knowing my opinion better than me and for knowing what I 'want'.  

Which is?

There we go with the MP again.....When did I say my good man that Generations should look like anything?

What I said is that each line, should they want to continue it, should be cattering to its own demographic and not try to cater to everyone at the same time, because it doesnt work. They have 4 lines, 3 of them are mixed and none of them works exactly as they should. They should identify their target groups for each, and design them to cater to each. Hope that its clear this time.

 

I said in general, so that is an answer. But if you want me to be more specific, then okay.

Are we collecting the same lines? Not entirely. Since as toy collectors we're not all interested in the same lines and/or generations within that line.

So which lines are you collecting so we can compare?

I'm quite pleased with Transformers, with the exception of crappy distribution and parts that pop off on several figures.

My Little Pony was well made when I was a kid. It also had a shitload of variety, beauty, colors, characters, species, poses, gimmicks, accessories and playsets. It rebooted itself beautifully in its third generation, when my daughter started playing and collecting them.

This particular generation started off and remained stagnant. Relies too much on a handful of characters to the point where they're forced on you, if you want a new character. It has awful quality control, increasingly deformed moulds, fewer accessories/playsets and static poses.

Breyer horses has shrunk down in physical stores and in numbers. Quality is still excellent, though I expect nothing less.

DC Girls has atrocious quality. Mismatched plastic, feet deformed enough that they can barely stand, joints so stiff that I was afraid I was going to break one WW's arm off.

Schleich and Safari Ltd. have shrunk in stores and numbers. The paint jobs are getting a bit sloppy and they're going up in price.

Mega Man has always had awful variety, which is astonishing considering they have hundreds of characters besides all versions of Mega Man, Zero, Sigma, Vile, Bass, Rush and occasionally Proto and Roll.

Care Bears has good QC, but at present, awful variety. There are so many Care Bears and Cousins missing. Even among the more popular ones.

I'm not a toy snob, but I'm not going to pretend these problems don't exist and that they aren't annoying to deal with.

 

Disappointment comes with an ever increasing stock market. Inflating stock prices is paramount to anything else because that enriches executives who are tied to stock based performance bonuses. When the stock market tanks, companies must make money the old fashioned way and give us quality products since there isn't easy money from near zero interest loans to fund stock buybacks instead of R&D.

Playmates Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and Ben 10 are fantastic toys. Built like tanks and can take the abuse of an eight year old. Considering what you get for $8 compared to a Star Wars figure for the same money, it is laughable.

My son won't even accept a Star Wars figure anymore unless it is a Black Series I get on clearance. I've been buying older figures from the flea markets because they are superior in every way and cost me a few dollars.

When Hasbro moved production to Vietnam they saved on labor and duty, but increased prices across the board.

 

As opposed to what?