Are there any fundamentalist Transformers?

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by Bass X0, Mar 6, 2009.

  1. Bass X0

    Bass X0 King of Muay Thai

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    Not Transformers for fundamentalists but Transformers characters who are actually fundamentalists themselves?

    I can't think of any offhand.
     
  2. Boulder

    Boulder Rock Lord

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    I suppose that really depends on how you define fundamentalism. Are you asking if any of them follow a strict religious belief or cult following than the Fallen may fit the description. If you mean in the sense of adhering to a strict sense of moral guidelines, then I would offer Optimus Prime and Dinobot.
     
  3. Coolhand

    Coolhand Spiff's Stunt Double

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    Interesting question.

    Depends what you mean by fundamentalist. There are lots of TF's that adhere to very strict world views. First Aid is a strict pacifist, to the point where he WILL NOT FIGHT even to save his own skin. Shockwave scorns emotion, Megatron scorns weakness and worships power. Indeed, Prime is prepared to fight a fullscale war over the principle that "freedom is the right of all sentient beings."

    If you mean fundamentalist in terms of strong religious views, I think the writers of Beast Machines had Optimus portrayed as what many would consider a "fundamentalist" in the first season. Though again you tend to get into the quagmire of drawing the line between fundamentalism and someone who has strong personal belief in something.
     
  4. Blitz.

    Blitz. Well-Known Member

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    Sun Storm in the DW comics as about all I can think of
     
  5. DieMaus

    DieMaus is blawesome

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    Well, Sunstorm is the obvious example of a religious fundamentalist Transformer, but it's a pretty open-ended question. If your definition of fundamentalism necessarily includes a religious/spiritual overtone, then there probably aren't many (Beast Machines Optimus Primal and Megatron spring to mind); if you're simply talking about TF characters with strictly dogmatic beliefs, then there's probably a lot more (Beast Wars Inferno and Animated Lugnut, for starters)...
     
  6. Draven

    Draven Banned

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    According to Optimus Prime's original Marvel G1 comic bio, he was a doctor and healer before the Great War (before all this Optronix rubbish in The War Within). His role was to protect life, and when the Great War began he simply continued following his nature to its inevitable conclusion.
    Megatron was a gladiator; his function was to survive, overcome, and emerge victorious and stronger. He started the war because he saw it as his destiny to rule Cybertron, and then extend that rule to the stars (for those who don't know, Megatron planned to use Cybertron as a mobile battle station; he even went as far as building massive rocket engines under its surface).
    I wouldn't call them fundamentalists; they were simply doing what they always did, but on a larger scale.

    I was always of the impression that Shockwave didn't just scorn emotion, but was actually incapable of emotion; it wasn't in his programming to display it, or even understand it. He literally functioned on pure logic. This was why his greatest weakness was usually an irrational response to his actions. There is a superb story in one of the UK Marvel G1 comics where Hot Rod gets the better of Shockwave when, rather than running, he dives straight in and grabs Shockwave and jumps around with him, bouncing off rocks and falling quite a bit. By the end of it Shockwave is so confused that he literally can't do anything about it. I was laughing my ass off; I consider it the high point of Hot Rod's career ;) 

    Optimus Primal in Beast Machines does display fundamentalist tendencies IMO; he believes what the Oracle tells him as utter gospel. Unfortunately, through Tankor's manipulation of the visions Primal received from the oracle, he tips over into zealotry and ends up being relieved of command by Cheetor. Primal became incapable of seeing any other point of view.
    Megatron's beliefs, honed by his own experiences rather than any form of "Divine Intervention", tip into zealotry as well; the difference is unlike Primal that he is still capable of reason (as displayed when he spares the Maximals after Rattrap breaks the deal they made).

    I would class Animated Lugnut & BW Inferno as fanatics; Lugnut is a slightly more sycophantic fanatic, more I would suspect out of awe than anything else. Inferno, on the other hand, is insane. He views Megatron as the leader of his colony ("My Queen!" "I do wish he'd stop calling me that...") and as such would gladly give his life to protect Megatron.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2009
  7. Coolhand

    Coolhand Spiff's Stunt Double

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    Bugger! Forgot about Sunstorm! How could I possibly forget Sun-HEATHENS SHALL BURN-Storm! If you define fundamentalist as "religious with a serious side-order of violent crazy", then he's probably the definitive Transformer fundamentalist.

    Good points there. I suppose I tend to get tripped up by how people define a fundamentalist. For some people it means a person who subscribes to a specific religious/world view, for others it's ANYONE who holds to a belief so strongly that they're prepared to die or kill for it, for others means someone who's opinion flies in the face of proven fact, for others someone who refuses to accept that anyone's opinions other than their own are valid, or a mix of the above.

    If we're taking the Sunstorm definition of "religious with violent crazy," then yeah, they don't fit with that at all.

    I've never read that one, sounds awesome!:lol 
    I remember something similar happening in Spotlight Shockwave, when the Dinobots attack appears so irrational to him that he almost locks up. Was it ever mentioned in cannon that Shockwave was never able to experience emotion, or was it that he chose to remove it from his programming?

    Ah right. I'm not that familiar with Beast Machines (seens bits of episodes but that's it), so never got chance to watch the specifics of Prime's behaviour. I do remember reading an interview with the writers where they said they wrote Prime to go further and further down the crazy zealot route in series one, so that they could pull him back from it in the second series.
    I MUST get round to watching Beast Machines...
     
  8. Optimus Sledge

    Optimus Sledge Yar har fiddle di dee

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    I think it's the Aspects Of Evil: Shockwave story Draven's referring to. Well worth a look, as I often found the black and white backup stories to be better than the main features.
     
  9. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

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    Most of the things I could find about how to define were religious related and since writers were never too crazy about stepping on toes they sort of side stepped the topic of religion in most of the stories.

    I did find one definition that might be helpful for the topic since it seems to fit some characters.

     
  10. Fit For natalie

    Fit For natalie tfwiki nerd

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    I thought Megatron let them go because Rattrap kept his end of the bargain to protect him for one night (even though he refused to fire on Primal)?
     
  11. Magnus' Mate

    Magnus' Mate Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely, but to be fair, the main features at the time the B&W strips were printed included such notable triumphs as "GI Joe Vs. The Transformers" and the "Ingalactic Planetary Wrestling Championship" so it's not 100% convincing praise! :wink: 

    In contrast to Draven (sorry mate), I actually didn't like the AoE Shockers installment very much, nor the other stories where Furman made him act like a complete fool. This was the Decepticon mastermind that decimated the Autobots for most of the first block of Marvel issues... and he goes all ga-ga when somebody does something unexpected on the BATTLEFIELD?

    They moved away from the initial premise of Shockwave scorning emotions and emotional responses to (under Furman) his not being able to DEAL with those who do. They don't equate to the same thing in my book.

    Back to the Q at hand, ignoring the religious aspect of fundamentalism, you can add Bludgeon (his strict warrior code, and that martial art he raved on about - Metallikato?) to the list probably, but I agree that many TF had very strong convictions they held to and rarely wavered from.

    Interesting topic.
     
  12. Gadep

    Gadep Banned

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    this is too easy....beast wars megatron....had a one tracked fundamentalistic method or goal of conquering / taking over the galaxy...
     
  13. jorod74

    jorod74 Psycholagnist (Ret.)

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    Roughly skimming over the wiki for Fundamentalism, i was given the impression that certain Autobots are fundamentalists at heart because they follow paths unpopular with the majority, such as Beachcomber's pacifism.

    even Omega Supreme (animated version at the least) could be seen as a literal- far too literal- interpretation.
    his belief system is based on sacrifice. life, the war, the universe, all that he is and stands for, is based upon sacriifce.
    Especially his own.
     
  14. Optimus Sledge

    Optimus Sledge Yar har fiddle di dee

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    Apologies, I wasn't clear: I'll take the Earthforce stories over anything that was ever run as a main story. Target: 2006, Time Wars, Underbase saga, any of it.

    As others have said, unless you're thinking specifically of religious fundamentalism, there are quite a few fundamentalist Transformers. Hell, Sunstreaker strictly adheres to the idea he is the most beautiful thing on Earth.
     
  15. Backstop

    Backstop Have you seen my box art?

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    Alpha trion maybe??
     
  16. MACRAPTRON

    MACRAPTRON Well-Known Member

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    I MUST read this.
     
  17. Shockscream

    Shockscream Chairman of Nerd Day

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    Certain incarnations of Starscream could be said to have a fundamentalist ideology. He believes the Decepticon ideal so much that he is willing to do anything to ensure success -- including remove Megatron from the equation when his power-hunger starts getting in the way.
     
  18. Voiceroy

    Voiceroy Trans-fo-mahs!

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    The problem is that both definitions are inaccurate: fundamentalism - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

    Furthermore, it's biased and inappropriate to label a fundamentalist as a "Religious fanatic." Fundamentalism applies to things other than religion, such as science, politics, and law. "Extremist" or "Radical" would be more fitting for one who fits the behavior being described in this thread.

    The slant and bias in the "fundamentalist" stereotypes that are being thrown around in this thread, whether intentional or not, are wrong and they violate Board Rule #10:

    Unless this topic can be discussed without stereotyping "fundamentalists" and the thread title updated accordingly, this discussion needs to be closed.
     
  19. OptimusSolo

    OptimusSolo Tournament Master

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    Except for the fact that the whole idea behind Beast Machines was a 'religous' story according to the writers at least...
     

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