Are the Alchemor Prisoners Problematic?

Discussion in 'Transformers Robots In Disguise / Prime Discussion' started by Zylly103, Jun 5, 2017.

  1. Zylly103

    Zylly103 Well-Known Member

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    My friend, Terry, pointed this out, but there’s a lot that’s actually problematic about RiD 201X.

    1) Let’s start with the fact that sometime between Prime and RiD, Decepticon branding seems to have come to mean “criminal” rather than “opposing faction member.” While I have no doubt that Megatron welcomed criminals into the fold to provide him with resources and soldiers, I also can’t see some of the Alchemor prisoners as the type to fall in line.

    2) Other than Fracture (who wasn’t a prisoner) and Overload (who’s there to sell the then-newest toy gimmick), ALL of the Decepticons either have animal alt modes or animal styled robot modes. It also makes it clear in most cases that these “animal” Decepticons are various subspecies (sharkticon, corvicon, etc).

    3) Some of these prisoners are clearly mentally ill. Springload, for example, is delusional. He needs HELP, not imprisonment (or at least not the kind he’s given here)

    4) Some of the behaviors demonstrated by the prisoners, such as Filch’s thieving, are indicated to be SPECIES’s TRAITS. That’s... that’s problematic.

    6) And all of those people are thrown in with genuine monsters like Steeljaw and Underbite.

    Or are we just thinking about things too hard?
     
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  2. Stonecrusher

    Stonecrusher jerk to storytelling

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    You are. There's no doubt the majority of the prisoners are evil. This is a kid's show, critical thinking skills can ruin the experience at times.

    THAT SAID, a lot of people picked up on this idea. Heck, in my comic, I rolled with it.
     
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  3. Zylly103

    Zylly103 Well-Known Member

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    I definitely agree that a large chunk of them are flat out criminals (Thunderclash, etc) or psychos (Underbite) or true blue Decepticons.
     
  4. Noideaforaname

    Noideaforaname Pico, let's go up to Zuma

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    Yeah, RiD's not trying to be anything other than a silly mindless 'baddie of the week' kids cartoon. Still, it's really blundered into some very unfortunate implications, especially since it's trying to be a "zany criminals" show and a "monster" show AND Prime's sequel, and overall having no damn clue what it wants 'Decepticon' to even mean (other than "bad guy"). I'm not sure I've ever seen a show that struggled with giving it's villains identity; there's usually a distinct theme even if all the villains are unrelated to each other, none of this weird umbrella term that doesn't fit it's own logic.
     
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  5. DepthWave

    DepthWave Decepticon Storm Trooper.

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    I do not understand what you are trying to say with those statements. I suppose, they all are obvious, but what are they about here?

    Springload- I also thought he needed help, but his behaviour while joyriding clearly showed me that he must be isolated. Why wasn't he helped before it got that bad? Because most of the new "society" seem to be Autobots, and the Autobots never bother to think about problem, if they can just destroy or imprison somebody to make them vanish.
    I think the Decepticons are all animals, so little children find it easier to distinguish the sides from each other.
     
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  6. Nemesis Scar

    Nemesis Scar Gouf Troop

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    MST3K mantra.
     
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  7. NOCV

    NOCV Cretin of Kaon

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    There's an old saying that "History is written by the victors". With Megatron's parting order that "The Decepticons are no more", the war is effectively over, and so the Autobots are left to rule Cybertron. This makes any Cybertronians that still align with the Decepticon cause, and work to continue it, enemies of the state.

    As a parallel, if any US states had insisted to continue the Confederacy after the cessation of the US Civil War, they would have also been regarded as an enemy force to stamp out.

    I've noticed this too, and without justification from someone involved with the show, I can only reason that it's a design choice meant to make the Decepticons easier to identify for small kids. Otherwise I don't see why the baddies would primarily have a creature theme to them.

    This is a sound observation, but could be chalked up to overthinking a kids cartoon. I'd justify it as either A) Help has been offered but the subject purposely worked against it, or B) Bee's small team is ill equipped to help them so it is safer to put them in stasis until they can be returned to Cybertron for proper care.

    OR, the Decepticons have chosen creatures for their alt modes that share their personality traits. Filch is a thief and crows are notorious for their penchant for taking shiny or metallic items.

    See response to #1, and #3 B. I'd say it's a combination of both.
     
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  8. LynKey

    LynKey Well-Known Member

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    1) I don´t think they ever said when the prisoners were captured. Maybe Megatron was the one trying to change the meaning. About the Alchemor

    3) If it was during the beginning of the war it could be for his own safty.

    4) I don´t remember them inidicating species traits.
     
  9. Zylly103

    Zylly103 Well-Known Member

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    Good thoughts, all. I know I'm thinking about it a little to hard... but if we don't, who will?
     
  10. Scrapmaker

    Scrapmaker Miniautoquintessoboticon

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    I'd like to point out that the show has gone out of it's way to indicate that the new Council on Cybertron is corrupt and likely responsible for the new method of branding criminals as Decepticons. Case in point, Grimlock. His only crime was property damage. But he was branded a Decepticon and placed on the Alchemor.

    As for most of them being animal-like, it wouldn't be anything new for there to be prejudice toward beast-transformers in a Transformers series. Though to be fair, a lot of them are criminals. Other than that I'm not 100% sure I follow how that's a problem.

    Springload delusional, though one of the new episodes indicates that he's not completely unfounded in his delusions. Problem is, he's still violent, commits acts of violence against anyone that gets in his way, and is generally dangerous to himself and everyone around him. Even if he needs help, it should be after he's strapped down and can't hurt anyone.

    I'm not sure how species specific traits would be problematic, though. Filch is based on corvidae birds, like crows and magpies. It's not supposed to imply that criminal behavior is something like a "genetic" trait.
     
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  11. AirjitzuRonin

    AirjitzuRonin Member of the Bee Team

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    Decepticon currently represents anyone who disrupts peace or does bad. This is due to the council wanting it to seem that Autobots won the war and since the enemies of the Autobots, those who do bad are branded as Decepticons.

    There are likely some Decepticons who truly support the cause still around.
     
  12. Noideaforaname

    Noideaforaname Pico, let's go up to Zuma

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    It comes across almost like racial profiling. Like, the various "species" all belong to the same one, in a way; none of them are true animals, they're all fully sentient beings, and police officers making sweeping generalizations because "they're all like that", IN THIS POLITICAL CLIMATE, is... unfortunate, to say the least.
     
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  13. GitGudGabe

    GitGudGabe Vehicon

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    Consider that most of the alchemor prisoner manifest weren't in a prison per say, but stasis pods, which prolong life. I believe that may justify why so many of them are mentally ill, they were being contained for the danger they posed, not for their minds, but their bodies. Springload is unnaturally strong and has corrosive skin. Coupling that with his instability and violent tendencies. makes him a threat to all involved. Bisk and Crazybolt have delusions of grandeur, but arfe also incredibly strong. Hell, maybe the insanity defense is why they weren't executed for spare parts
     
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  14. DOTM Bumblebee

    DOTM Bumblebee I must be some kind of nut...

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    There are some definite unfortunate implications with cases like Springload, but I do feel that it may be reading too deeply into what is trying to be a simple show. After all, Springload has physically assaulted multiple people in his quest to find Dorados. Yes, he probably needs rehabilitation, but I think the Autobots are justified in trying to contain him until they can get him back to Cybertron. One shot of cases like Springload and Filch in some kind of psychiatric therapy back on Cybertron would fix this problem for me.

    That said, most, if not all the other prisoners on board the Alchemor are dangerous criminals who are in full possession of their mental faculties, so the issue isn't very present in the show, but I do feel it should be resolved with such a scene as I mentioned as soon as possible.
     
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  15. scrapmetaru

    scrapmetaru Well-Known Member

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    "He'll try to keep his sanity with the help of his robot friends"?
     
  16. Nemesis Scar

    Nemesis Scar Gouf Troop

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    No, "it's just a show and I should really just relax."
     
  17. Digilaut

    Digilaut I'm Mary Poppins, y'all!

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    I love this thread! I had the same thoughts a while ago, and even though - of course - the answer is: 'it's a kid's show, don't think to deep about it', it's still funny to..well, think about it. :lol 

    The prisoners are definitely problematic for all the reasons that have already been mentioned: the Alchemor doesn't just house the biggest and baddest criminals and evil scientists, it also has a bunch of Cybertronians whose crimes (if they are even crimes) are considerably lower. Heck, wasn't Grimlock put into stasis and branded a Decepticon simply for causing property damage - something considering his attitude he's clearly not been doing on purpose. :lol 

    Then there's the Con branding: everyone who is a criminal is automatically a Decepticon. The show's pretty vague and contradicting about this (Steeljaw makes a big point of removing his Con symbol while others are 'true' Decepticons, others don't seem to care or be aware or something). It's also a bit unclear whether these Cons were imprisoned before or after the revival of Cybertron...either way, only seeing a Decepticon symbol drives the Bee team nuts and reaching for their weapons :lol  (vice versa as well! All the Cons react on seeing the Autobrand).

    Here's another fun thing to think too deep about: what about all the little 'evil' Fixit drones that was on that one ship team Bee blew up? They all had glowing red eyes and were in 'attack mode'.
    Fixit has been shown to be a faulty Mini-Con, and in one episode he too gets set in 'attack/guard mode'. At first I thought this meant something happened to Fixit that made him MORE than just a drone - but no: during Decepticon Island, we find out that there are more of his kind and they all are fully sentient Cybertronians.
    So basically, Bumblebee showed no remorse (or even gave a second though about) just blowing that ship full of Fixits all to hell. :lol  :lol 
     
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  18. redwolfbear

    redwolfbear Well-Known Member

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    given the corruption in the autobot council and beastformer type cybertornians being in thier way victims of prejudice by thier fellow cybertronians

    am i the only one hoping the series will explore over time these story line elements leading into something majorly huge?

    theres some serious potential here as prequals go folks.

    right now i am hoping and praying this leads into something monumentally enormous over time storyline wise

    (think pre beast wars cybertron folks)
     
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  19. Venixion

    Venixion So-Cal Girl

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    Some definitely are.Zizza is a mind controlling slave master, Vertebreak and Springload are clearly deranged, some just wanted to go back home and some wanted to be left the hell alone.
     
  20. Awesomepow

    Awesomepow Well-Known Member

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