Are G1 AFA eBay prices justified?

Discussion in 'Transformers On Ebay' started by andornaut, Aug 30, 2011.

  1. andornaut

    andornaut Active Member

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    Just curious to hear other opinions on this.

    I've noticed that prices on AFA TFs have gone up a bit from where they were this time last year. At least, going by this guide: Transformers AFA Price Guide | geewun (G1) transformers

    This mostly applies to "Buy It Now" listings, though I feel that auction prices have gone up as well. Some items are listed at surprisingly high amounts, such as a couple of G1 AFA Hot Rods at $2000 when a few similar Hot Rods sold in July for $680-$1000 (auction), so where do these prices come from?

    Is it just that some sellers list "Buy It Now" prices well above the typical auction selling price in the hopes that someone will buy it on an impulse? I'm starting to suspect that some sellers buy up auctions and relist at 2x the price - is this common?

    Perhaps the DOTM movie is influencing demand, and maybe the success of TF Prime is doing the same? "Market forces" at work, and all that.

    Also, are conventions typically a better / less expensive place to look for vintage MISB TFs?

    Thanks.
     
  2. grimlock1972

    grimlock1972 "No Mas" My Wallet

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    depends on how into AFA figures you are. if thats your thing i suppose it would be worth it. its not a large segment of the collectors market but it seems to enjoy steady demand for the figures.


    For my money its just not worth it, its my opinion is that AFA figures have an artificial value increase based on the opinion of a few paid "experts" saying it is this close to being flawless.

    Also if you don't want for MISB figures in a plastic box its much cheaper to get non AFAed figures when possible.

    as for the auction stuff I do not Ebay so i shall leave that to those who would know to answer.
     
  3. andornaut

    andornaut Active Member

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    While it'd be great if you could get non-AFA MISB (on eBay), now pretty much everyone has figured out that they can get an "artificial value increase" by submitting to AFA, so they do. That's kinda unfortunate in some ways because everyone's paying more, but it is what it is...

    It'd be fine if the prices were the non-AFA price + $125 (for the seller having to submit the figure, postage, etc), but it's usually much more of an increase in price; especially for the more desirable figures.

    But, it's not just the AFA premium, but rather the actual listing prices that seem noteworthy.
     
  4. jonnyshaft

    jonnyshaft Well-Known Member

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    There definitely are some inflated AFA prices for BIN's. Unfortunately, there are often one or two people who will pay that much. Does that determine the value? For that intsance, yes.
    There are the same inflated BIN's for MISB figures as well, its not just AFA.
    And lets face it, there are inflated prices for any BIN in any walk of life for anything. Im sure many sellers figure "Why not try it?"
    There are a couple of big moneyed AFA collectors in China that buy them up if they need them, no matter the cost.
    If you see actual auctions and not BIN's, you get a better sense of what the general collector is willing to pay for a graded toy.
    To say that a non AFA MISB figure is signifigantly less is just not true. In fact if you look at recent history on ebay the prices of an AFA figure and the same figure sealed, ungraded, and in similar condition, they often go for the same, with the ungraded sometimes going for more based on the PROMISE of a good grade.
    In my opinion if youre buying an AFA figure at the very least youre more sure that it is sealed, the condition, and that its real. They are not perfect, but Ill take their word over the average unknown ebay seller.
    The Hot Rods you mentioned were a recent case find, so there are a flood of them hitting the market. An AFA 90 Hot Rod is now selling for about $700-800, where it used to go for $2k. many sellers are holding on to that price, but they better wake up soon or they will really be ass out and not get any return on their investment.
     
  5. exomega255

    exomega255 Emerald Green

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    if people have brought it in the past? Yes.
     
  6. andornaut

    andornaut Active Member

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    jonnyshaft:

    All good points. I figure I'll just wait until I see prices in-line with what similar items have gone for at auction. I'm not rich enough to be in a hurry :) .
     
  7. Red Alert

    Red Alert Security

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    Keep in mind Ebay keeps raising fees so sellers raise prices to compensate
     
  8. jonnyshaft

    jonnyshaft Well-Known Member

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    With ebay and paypal, the seller is now losing a full %12 of the sale. Not to mention listing fees, not to mention chargebacks initiated by unscrupulous buyers, not to mention 0 feedback bidders who swoop in and bid at the last second and NEVER pay, etc. the list goes on.
    @ Andronaut there are many reputable people on these boards who collect and sell graded toys. I am in it to collect, not make money, so I often sell any doubles I get. If youre looking for anything specific feel free to pm me.
    Be sure to always check the COMPLETED listings. Any prices that actually sold are in green, and you will better see what actually sells, and what gets listed month after month at crazy BINS. A good example is an AFA 85 Sunstreaker. He has been SELLING for $700 (give or take) There are BIN's for the same figure, same grade from $900-$1500.
    Jon
     
  9. andornaut

    andornaut Active Member

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    @jonnyshaft

    I guess that's 9% for ebay and 3% for paypal? Yeah, that seems like a lot. At least the ebay charge is capped at $100.

    I've got 2 G1 MIB complete TFs (Jazz, Astrotrain) that I was looking to sell, but it's almost not worth the time to post them. I might just look into trying to sell them both to one of the ebay TF "stores" or to a local store so that they can resell them.

    I will take your advice re: completed listings. Thanks.
     
  10. Da_Last_2_Walk

    Da_Last_2_Walk Da King Of Pre Rubs TFW2005 Supporter

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    Ebay sellers can list their BIN items for any price, it's getting a buyer that counts. Checking the ebay completed listings is always a good gauge of price, but there is always that crazy buyer out there that can affect the market price. The Hot Rods are a case in which the seller is making a failed attempt to charge what the item went for before the case finds.

    There are a lot of high BIN prices on ebay, and there are different reasons for why that is. There's the AFA 90 that pulls high $, there's rare items that never appear, there's sellers trying to make money after paying ebay/paypal fees, there's new AFA collectors that overpay....And there's always those that think their AFA 60 Chinese re-issue Cyclonus is worth $900.

    Yes, many dealers buy items, and then resell them for 2x the amount paid(Check Final Frontier & Planetforce feedback). These sellers do end up selling some of them for 2x the amount, so I can't hate.

    Never been to a convention, but I've heard that they are expensive.

    Here's a group for AFA collectors in which you don't have to worry about the haters:
    http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/groups/afa-collectors-group.html
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2011
  11. G1_Cindersaur

    G1_Cindersaur Banned

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    just remember you are paying all extra $$$ for a sealed acrylic box with a toy inside.

    then let that help you decide if it is worth it.
     
  12. Might Gaine

    Might Gaine The Devil Express

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    Recently I have been inflating my BIN prices because I know buyers are going to haggle the price down anyway. I'm in a stronger negotiating position if I start above the price I want to sell at.
     
  13. Scorpion

    Scorpion Well-Known Member

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    I understand that demand raises prices and such...but for me I would think a slight price increase for something afa'd would be justified, but not a huge difference.
     
  14. jonnyshaft

    jonnyshaft Well-Known Member

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    Might Gaine -
    I think your prices are very reasonable considering what you had up, especially that 90 Sunstreaker. Its definitely harder to price when there is no comps.

    I think youll find very different auctions when its a collector selling an AFA tf and not a dealer looking to profit on it. The former has a passion for the items, the latter is all about the dough.

    And youre right any buyer will haggle, has anyone ever hit the BIN button? Its probably rare.

    Theres a huge amount of AFAs that just popped up on ebay that are listed at RIDICULOIUS prices. But if someone blinks and hits BIN, its not the sellers fault.

    Scorpion - I agree, if only for the fact that it costs money to have it graded and cased. And more than one set of eyes (the sellers) is relaying the condition.

    I still find it strange so many people have a problem with AFA collecting. Isnt it just like a TV show you dont like...just dont watch?
     
  15. Killa-B-Killed

    Killa-B-Killed Material Handler

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    Its not only the acrylic case that justifies the markup. You are also purchasing the guarantee that the graded item is what the label states it is. Call it insurance. AFA has bought back items that were shown illegitimate in the past.
     
  16. cromagnus

    cromagnus B-boy rumble

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    I think the uneducated members who always say that afa artificially inflates the prices are wrong. After watching completed listings for the last 5 years it is painfully obvious that AFA'd figures do not get a higher selling price as compared to ungraded items in similiar conditions. ANyone who says so is uninformed and does not follow the markets. Do your research before you open your flaps and say some sweepingly generic statement like" you are just paying more for a plastic case" cause that makes you sound ignorant. AFA'd TF's are the cream of the crop, and there is no reason why they shouldn't be preserved/ protected.
    Certain long time AFA sellers take advantage of the market as well. Right now AFA 80's are doing really well, where 3 years ago 80's were not selling very well. I believe that is the result of new collectors entering the hobby and the 80 pricepoint best serves their budget. It's silly cause if you had the option of buying a sealed toy ungraded that may or not be legit, or a graded toy that is authenticated for $50 more its a no brainer for me. If $50 is a lot of money in your eyes than AFA collecting is not for you.
    I basically take what I believe is a reasonable offer or the current market price and add $100 on to it for sellers that i trust or respect. I never low ball people, because i take the time to find a relatively accurate price. However i have noticed a lot of long time sellers continue to post ridiculous prices on their items( final frontier) as if no one noticed the market has changed. To me that's just greed and bad business. He's losing money by sitting on all that stock for 5 years. All the AFA buyers know he is overpriced and no one touches his auctions. Now in 3 months we will see the same pile of overpriced plastic goodness listed again for the same prices. No one is fooled by it and when non afa collectors see his BIN they assume that all AFA'd TF's are a rip off. Hence the haters. Those types of sellers are the ones you should avoid, and let them sit on their product for another ten years. Final frontier doesn't have a clue that he is pushing away his customer base, or that people are discussing what a greedy asshat he is online. Big heads and egos will ruin any hobby.
     
  17. Murasame

    Murasame CHIMICHANGAS

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    It's only justified when AFA matters to you.
    So, to me, it is not justified. It is just crazy.
     
  18. andornaut

    andornaut Active Member

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    I guess a good point to take from this discussion is:

    Watch the market on eBay for a few months and you'll be better able to judge what is a reasonable price and what is not. Some people will list an unreasonable BIN, and may get a sale, but you should mostly just ignore those.

    I'm personally willing to pay a ~ $100 - 150 premium for an AFA over a comparable non-graded for a few reasons:

    1) To see what an unbiased 3rd party thinks of the condition and MISB vs MIB status. This is especially important since I can't see the product in person when buying on eBay.
    2) To be slightly more sure of its authenticity (this doesn't count for much, IMO, you still have to be vigilant)
    3) I do like the acrylic cases.

    I'll happily buy a non-graded MISB TF, but there are more risks with such a purchase so I'd expect it to be priced accordingly. And, if I'm buying in person, then the AFA grading counts for less since I can be more sure of the condition if I can physically inspect it.
     
  19. jonnyshaft

    jonnyshaft Well-Known Member

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    "It's only justified when AFA matters to you.
    So, to me, it is not justified. It is just crazy."

    I have to agree. It is crazy to want really nice, high end collectibles, which are easier to relate the condition of for purchasing, and are much less likely to be damaged in transport.
    The madness definitely lies in wanting something in pristine condition, when its so much more rational to buy and display a piece of shit. :thumb 
    Im getting rid of my AFAed tf's and buying a target shelf to fill with some loose figures dug out of an old box. Ive see the light.

    @ Cro- "asshat" :lol 
     
  20. G1_Cindersaur

    G1_Cindersaur Banned

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    i love how collectors do this...someone starts a thread asking for opinions and folks give them...and then someone invariably pops off with the "IF YA DON'T LIKE IT...DON'T WATCH LIKE WITH TV" bullshit.

    the poster asked for opinions...if you don't like what folks are saying...then don't troll with this kind of crap.
     

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