Arcee(plus movie spoiler)

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Namekjohn, Aug 1, 2007.

  1. Namekjohn

    Namekjohn Namekimus Prime

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    I heard that arcee was surposed to be in the movie but because fans didnt want her in it they removed her?

    This is like the frist ive heard about the anti arcee thing, I honestly thought she would make a great addition to the team in the movie and may have been the only one to SOME EMOTION when jazz died (instead of the whole he was a great warrior but we got enough friends so it doesnt matter bs)

    so my question is why didnt fans want arcee in the movie?
     
  2. Sol Fury

    Sol Fury The British Butcher Administrator News Staff

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    Actually, I asked the Movie writers about this at Botcon.

    Two reasons Arcee went:

    1) She was too small. She's around half the size of Jazz, pretty tiny. Considered too small to work in the huge battle scene at the end (Ironhide took her place in the cast, imagine her in his place and surely you'll notice the difference?)
    2) She's a female robot. The writers considered it too "complicated" to have to explain why there are genders in these robots on top of all the "where they come from, how do they transform" level stuff. Basically she'd require more exposition than they could have worked in without slowing the whole thing up.
     
  3. darthrage

    darthrage Leader Class

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    or what they could do is just put her in the picture as a transforming motorcycle in addition to the existing Autobot team and not explain the gender stuff. I know people wanna know more and if left out, it will be considered a plothole but I think the origins scenario will add a whole half hour at least of back story

    So if they were gonna put her in, just put her without the back story and just give her some kick ass action sequences. It appears that people are not complaining about the fact that she's a motorcycle and not a futuristic car, so we're really accepting the changes (not that she was in the movie though)
     
  4. Rumble02

    Rumble02 Radicon of Obliticons

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    well i hope she gets a chance in the next one. her and wheeljack and possibley mirage. or grimlock
     
  5. Shadow Convoy

    Shadow Convoy Stealth Ops Commander

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    bay also wanted an aircraft carrier transformer but no gotz enough moola
     
  6. SKowl

    SKowl Rubber Golem

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    I can see that. I'd prefer Ironhide over Arcee as well, but a smaller Autobot could easily work in the sequel. Not all the Autobots have to be huge, hulking machines to be cool or to be deadly. And a bike is different, only so much you can do with cars, we could use a bike in there somewhere. Arcee is small, but she would be quick and tough to shoot or catch - she could be like a ninja. Like I said in another thread, you know that feeling when you have an itch on your back that you just can't reach? Now imagine if that itch had a gun and could shoot you in the head...

    Size doesn't matter.


    They never explain why Jazz was black either, it may even be easier to just not explain it. Sometimes, if you try to explain sometime, you just make it sound even more silly than not-explaining it ever could (see: The Force is Star Wars, Episode I)
     
  7. Sol Fury

    Sol Fury The British Butcher Administrator News Staff

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    Oh, she could definately have been there without the exposition, that's just what was cited as a reason for cutting her.
    Personally I think she'd have been the one to finish Blackout. If you look at how Lennox takes him down, it wouldn't have been much of a stretch for Arcee to have charged him, transformed, sliding the way Lennox did and hit him with her firepower from there.

    Although having Lennox bring down the Decepticon who killed his friends and colleagues was much better in terms of poetic justice. It meant something to see him do it. If a TF had done it, it'd be another Autobot killing a Decepticon.
     
  8. StefanXPrime

    StefanXPrime Hater of all things G1

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    I actually like that idea. That would have been cool if she was in the movie and did that. I'm glad they put ironhide in instead of her but if they find a way to make her cool they should put her in it then.
     
  9. Finbot74

    Finbot74 Dis-Member

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    I really hope they never use her. I've never liked the character and the idea of robots having gender seems a little weird to me. Just my opinion.
     
  10. jagganathprime

    jagganathprime Banned

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    it seems odd until you realise that robots here are sentient beings....
    mechanical beings is more of a proper term, rather than robota.
    imagine them copulating and resulting in little metalloids.....
    not too far fetched if you regard metal as an organic building block as much as carbon is building block of the human body...

    (btw... the transformers already break the three laws of asimov....)
     
  11. NothingHead

    NothingHead Well-Known Member

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    Explaining the presence of a female robot would have been the last of their worries if they were so concerned about plot holes. If she was just there, as if she belonged, without a reason, i doubt it would have been a big problem. I hope she makes it into the next film..
     
  12. Deadend

    Deadend Overloaded Spark

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    Correct in the sentient machine comment, as for Asimov though, this gets tiring.

    He's a writer. His 'laws of robotics' do not exist except in his creations.
    It comes down to the person coding the machine in that instance. There are no 'universal laws of AI' except in fiction that likes to quote him.

    Personally I wanted to see Arcee, and hope she's in the sequel, but it is true that fans whined about it, also fans whined about the use of soundwave. He was put in and removed three times, with still leaving remnants of his personage in the designs. Look at barricade, blackout and frenzy, they all have minor aspects of soundwave in the design. Whether or not his is the real reason either was removed for later, is anyone's guess.

    It is an interesting point to her scale, and makes a valid reason for removal. Soundwave, though, that's another story. Hopefully his fate won't be similiar in 2 as it was in 1.

    She's roughly honestly about the size of a person if a bit taller to be frank. Maybe 8 feet tall or so? She's about 3-4 of her motorcycle wheels tall if the toy is accurate.

    Personally, I want to see soundwave as the scion with the transforming DJ equipment mod. So rumble can get out and start jamming...

    But the analogy to the metal being the building blocks of their life is an interesting point. While yes the allspark gave life, couldn't two bots of opposing 'polarity' spark matrixes essentially fragment and merge their sparks' fragments together to create a new sentient mechanical being while they themself stay intact? And raise said being into a Moralistic good, or egomaniacal thinker of what is strong should rule. Just because they look male and female, doesn't mean they have to reproduce the same we do. Not all walks of life are the same, especially interplanetary life. Heck look at the coneheads, they don't even have genetalia, yet still reproduce. (okay poor example, but you get my point.) We as humans have a tendency to only think within our limited scope of what we think we know.

    'Life' is more than just carbon based life forms, and the earthly reproductive cycle.
    What came first, the cybertronian or the techno egg? >.>


    On a side note, with the allspark 'gone' now. How will the cybertronian race propagate?
    Maybe due to the allspark being around, 'relations' were taboo and considered dangerous as to what it entailed in theory? The allspark gave life anyway, so what's the need for the risk? Similiar to what 'adult relations' had become in 'Demolition Man' where the swapping of bodily fluids without the use of geneticists was considered dangerous.
     
  13. Godzilla2

    Godzilla2 Well-Known Member

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    off-topic question, why was Ironhide's accent british?
     
  14. Deadend

    Deadend Overloaded Spark

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    Because that's the voice he seemingly gained from his traverses on the internet.
    Ditto to the others. It's a mix of their data processing to vocal output in also how they themselves felt they should act.

    So maybe ironhide hit a lot of british war movies online. xD
     
  15. Godzilla2

    Godzilla2 Well-Known Member

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    Makes sense ! I mean in the movie he likes blowing stuff up and has that impulse to fight so yeah that makes sense. I forgot about that! Its funny how Jazz has that rapper type voice, "Whats crackin bitches?" I cracked up when he said that!
     
  16. Deadend

    Deadend Overloaded Spark

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    Jazz has always been about integrating into the culture of places. He even states it as such in his 'this place isn't so bad' commentary as he spins and plops his but down on a broke down car.

    My guess to him is he picked up the prevalent pop culture, which sadly is heaps of rap music and ebonics, among other slang.

    On that note though. I seriously hope if arcee is included in the sequel, Susan Blu is doing the voice like in animated.

    It'd be awesome to have that written in with purpose. xD

    Then again, may be we need a younger more '80s' poppish sarcastic voice.
     
  17. Samana Rombuca

    Samana Rombuca Well-Known Member

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    Of which there wasn't enough of. In this case though, I agree, Lennox was the better option.

    And as for Arcee, bring it, but only if they can give her good characterization. I don't want some bimbo.
     
  18. StefanXPrime

    StefanXPrime Hater of all things G1

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    I'm glad they did it the way they did. Rap is a genre of music that alot of people like so why wouldn't they make him a hip hop oriented robot. The only thing I dont like about it is when people call him black. There are white people that say "bitch" and breakdance, not just black people. But on the Arcee topic I dont know how to make a girl fit into popular culture without being ditsy or watever
     
  19. Deadend

    Deadend Overloaded Spark

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    Bionic woman, Wonderfalls, and more lead females in pop culture, even buffy or Tru calling. There are many non-ditz popular female icons to draw on if needed.

    The thing is, they don't get their personality from us, they get their language use of OUR language use from the internet. That doesn't mean she would be ditzy, she's still a well trained 'soldier' who's been fighting decepticons for a long time.

    Heck want a clear example of what I mean?
    Look at the 'chick' in my sig, who also appears in a couple others. Illyria is a prime example of a strong non ditz woman in pop culture. Hell, lets not forget the current Pop Icon on tv, "Heroes" I wouldn't call any of their characters a clear 'ditz'.

    Britney spears, and other *shudder* pop singers are not the only females on the internet or in the media.

    Heck even Star wars and star trek have strong female rolls. And didn't BB even use a star trek sound bite?
     
  20. Godzilla2

    Godzilla2 Well-Known Member

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    I'm black just to let you know. And I think it was good nowish type of voice then a cool and stylish type of voice from the G1 series. He ain't black but he just acts like that.
     

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