Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by electronic456, Dec 2, 2012.
Press conference with professional Lebron haters!! (Jimmy Kimmel 7-5-12) - YouTube
Haha, I think you've struck on an important point. Regardless of if you like, hate, or feel nothing for the movies, I think we can all agree that they were 3 very similar movies and so everyone's reactions to the films have not changed much. Bay certainly has not really made 3 super-distinct movies at the very least.
Hopefully TF4 can freshen it up a bit and give us new things to like/hate/be meh about. I'm not expecting it though.
Welcome to the Internet.
Ohhh, yeah... (Sigh)
I love change. The CGI might have been primitive, but darn if Beast Wars wasn't a great series. Transformers Animated did so much better than the other series by making it seem like the Autobots really were on a world that was totally alien to them. That Animated made some of the Autobots jerks and the Decepticons had a good reason for rebelling was also a wonderful touch. Transformers Prime I track down every new episode and complain we don't get enough of the Predator style Soundwave. The War of Cybertron/Fall of Cybertron has way cooler Cybertron modes than G1 ever did.
But all change isn't good change. The Decepticons just don't rank up there with the great film villains like Darth Vader, Doc Ock, or the Joker. Instead of being an improvement on the cartoon Decepticons the movies just lack what I liked about cartoon Decepticons.
I think we've lost sight of what hate is because the people who really hated the movies managed to get banned. Our current "haters" are people who were either disappointed with some aspect of the films or who found flaws to the films. The real haters would issue death threats to people working on the films or to fans who enjoyed the films.
My beef with the Bayformer films is that in general, they were just mediocre at best, and awful, radioactive waste, to be locked up in a waste facility for the lifespan of humanity at worst. Bayformer fans seem to want to put them up on a platform and say that this is the FUTURE of Transformers, when arguably, G1 fans like I tend to go to IDW and such for our "future" of Transformers. Many people just simply don't agree with the character designs, with the characterizations, with the choice of actors and plot, just to name a few grievances with the film series.
I for one dislike the characterization of my childhood characters I grew up and loved. These are **NOT** the characters I knew as a kid. I felt that they were changed too much and Bay did not give the characters and mythos the proper respect it should've gotten. Adding a Devastator testicles joke and urinating Wheelie just shows how childish Michael Bay thinks our beloved property is. I dislike the pacing of the movies, and the poor writing even on an action movie basis. Though DOTM was easily the best of the three, it cannot fix the fact that the trilogy is still pretty bad as a whole. I've got a lot more issues with the trilogy...but this isn't the thread for that.
Let me tell you what I think...Movie fans are just as guilty on hating G1 as G1 fans are on hating the movies. Don't get up on your moral high ground here when you have just as many movie fans coming in about how G1 sucks, is lame, or is old stuff without even properly respecting WHY people like it in the first place. G1 is the lifeblood of this fandom. How many movieverse comics are there nowadays still in print? How many games are still there based on the films? Arguably the only real link to the films is Prime, which is loaded with the Bay aesthetic, but even then it tries to be it's own thing, rather than being tied to the movies or G1. G1 has lasting appeal for both us 30+ year olds, as well as our kids who have been infused with this stuff.
Just last week I saw a father and his daughter discussing the merits of G1, and about how she wanted to buy toys in accordance to her G1 loves. G1 is a series that has transcended our nostalgia, and I'm sure that just as much as young people are growing up with the movies, you also have kids growing up with G1. The movies have surely re-invigorated the fandom. It needed new blood definitely, but it hardly revolutionized it.
He deserves all the hate he gets. The bad story-telling, annoying human characters, victoria secret shots of women, racial stereotypes, little to no robot character development, final battles that show off the US military more than the robots, and the ATROCIOUS humor are a direct result of Michael Bay.
If you like that than that's fine but I prefer a little bit of brains to go with my Transformers ficiton.
I hate the Bay movies as much as anyone but I don't see why that hate belongs in the Bay Movie sub-forum. I hope people stop trolling in here, and let the movie fans have their little corner of the forum.
Or maybe they need their own forum.
I shall be interested in seeing how you feel when the movies eventually change to something other than BayFormers. Or are you naively thinking it'll be BayFormers forever for live-action TF movies?
As for improvement? I think the only thing Bay might've improved is CGI robots. But then that could've happened with anyone at the helm as CGI is progressing all the time.
Yes. Deal with it. However I think you're confusing Geewunners with people that legitimately just don't think the BayFormers movies were particularly good. That's a difference that you should probably learn if you want to be taken seriously.
BayFans would all be bored within a few weeks with everyone all agreeing with each other about how awesome BayFormers is.
Sure. If all the BayRavers promise to stay out of it. But since they tried separate sub-forms for BayFans and Not-that impressed-by-Bay's-efforts people at the old official TF Movie messageboard I know that wouldn't be adhered to. Just as the nasty 'hatorz' can't stay out of threads praising Bay, BayRavers can't stay out of threads expressing negative opinions of the movies.
Or people could learn to live with the opinions of others when it comes to these movies and they'd find life is far less stressful. Segregation is never the answer. Especially when there will always be a large number of people that fall within those two extremes of 'rant' and 'rave' anyway, finding various things to both like and dislike about the BayFormers movies. It's actually what makes this place interesting, to me at least.
BayFans often bleat about how intolerant and closed-minded the 'hatorz' are but it's funny how many 'the hatorz shouldn't post in here' type threads and posts get made by them. I wonder how many people that aren't huge fans of the Bay movies have made posts and threads suggesting BayFans should shut up and/or leave. I bet there are far more BayFans suggesting/demanding such things than people with negative opinions of the movies doing the same.
Now, I'm with you on the re-invigoration part, though I'd even go as far as saying the Bay films were revolutionary to the Transformers concept in a number of ways, even if they were completely underwhelming (or worse) in others. But I really want to shine a light on one thing you say here:
"Movie fans are just as guilty on hating G1 as G1 fans are on hating the movies."
The problem with statements like these (and I'm not meaning this as a personal attack, just pointing out something that happens way too often in this forum, and from both sides of the fence), is that in doing so, the poster basically creates a situation that simultaneously pidgeonholes those they don't agree with while condoning behavior done by those that do, even though they acknowledge that behavior should be unacceptable. It's basically saying "Well, this is bad, but other people do it too, so that makes it okay", and it isn't, unfortunately. Un-civility from both critics and fans of the Bay films is unacceptable as soon as it gets in the way of discussion, and it's clear to see that it can and does. The irony in statements like this, however, is that it paints the entire population into two very polarized groups, when most fans fall along a spectrum and have unique, complex opinions about the various incarnations of the fandom, AND that it ties into the massive persecution complexes (and inability to recognize and accept criticism) fans on the extreme edges of these spectrums have.
This is basically what I'm talking about. "Trolling" is the intentional act of stirring up drama or making people angry, just for the sake of making people angry. It is not the same as holding a contrary opinion, and equating everyone who criticizes the Bay films as "trolls" is disingenous at best, and willfully ignorant at worst.
Basically you're saying that we need two forums, one for people who only want to praise something, and one for people who want to criticize it. And you don't see how ridiculous that sounds? You say you "hate the Bay movies as much as anyone", do you really want to put into place a condition that bars you from voicing that opinion? Why wouldn't criticism of the movies belong in the section devoted to discussion regarding them?
For the last time. Bay. Does. Not. Write. These. Films. He DIRECTS the action. That is all.
Sorta. I don't have a problem of they have compelling arguments.
But I hate the people that are all "I HATE BAY BECAUSE ITS NOT G1"
I thought he was just trolling G1 fans...
Why do G1 fans bother you so much? I personally prefer them as they tend to be older and more mature to converse with. Your thread topic generally gives forth a great example of the typical immature Bay fan.
Hoo boy just you wait to meet some of our G1 fans!
Holy shit, dude, I can't even imagine the mental gymnastics you had to go through to mis-read my post as anything other than genuinely feeling bad for Bayverse fans having people come into their subforum and take a dump on the thing they enjoy. Which does happen with regularity.
I understand if people don't like certain things, they have a right to not like or like something. True bashing can go a little far sometimes but oh well, nothing we can do about that. As Prime would put it..."Freedom is the right of all sentient beings"...eh, you get where I'm goin with this right? Anyways, somehow peoples opinions fit in there as well.
I personally hate all haters because all haters are full of hate.
Better question; How has this thread survived to 6 pages?
Separate names with a comma.