Anyone thinks Captain America is similar to Batman?

Discussion in 'Comic Books and Graphic Novels' started by HordakFan, Aug 15, 2012.

  1. HordakFan

    HordakFan Banned

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    I mean they fought each other in DC vs. Marvel in 1996 which awesome and they became friends in the excellent 1997 crossover Captain America/Batman and JLA/Avengers.

    Who thinks they share similarities? i always thought he was marvel's Batman since 96.

    Can anyone compare their combat skills, weapons, their sidekicks, Red Skull to Joker, their choice of transportation etc.? afterall we know Avengers and JLA are the same kind of team in their universes.
     
  2. Star Saber

    Star Saber Cybertron 5th Commander

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    They're only similar with regards to being superb fighters, strategists and having had kid sidekicks, other than that, they're as far as can be. Captain America is an inspirational icon, he's supposed to represent the best that America can be, as well as serve as a role model to all heroes present and future. Batman on the other hand, is quite the opposite, he's a vigilante, using fear to spread his brand of justice. He's basically Gotham's equivalent of a boogeyman, people are more afraid to commit crimes because of being caught by the Batman.
     
  3. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    (I'm assuming you're using Steve Rogers and Bruce Wayne for this comparison, and I'll talk in general rather than any one continuity)

    Origin: Steve Rogers grew up poor and sickly, with an overprotective mother and a dead father. Bruce Wayne grew up rich, cared for after his tragic orphaning by his butler, Alfred. Wayne vowed to wage war on crime, Rogers just wanted to fight for his country. Wayne sought the best training money could buy, and shaped himself into a pinnacle of human achievement, a symbol to strike fear into the hearts of criminals. Rogers wanted to do his part for his country in WW2, rejected for his physical condition until he was made an experimental subject for a procedure that turned him into a unique superhuman, and a proud symbol of his nation.

    Rogers tries to have a normal life, loves, friends, and often a career outside of being Captain America, but Batman is consumed by being Batman, to the point that Bruce Wayne is more of a mask than a true persona. Rogers accepts being a symbol, but knows that he is simply a representative of the ideals he upholds and carries forward, and in many incarnations, Batman is more egotistical about what he is.

    Skills: Both are superb hand to hand combatants, Wayne taught by the finest teachers and experienced through his war on crime, Rogers through elite military and paramilitary training, and his battlefield experience, as well as his superhuman speed, strength, reflexes, and intellect (some sources vary in this, but I think the spirit of his powers is to assume he is superhuman in all aspects). They're both able to use most vehicles, motorcycles and avengers aircraft especially for Captain America. They're both adept tacticians and battlefield commanders, though their style of waging war is almost completely different. One fights from the shadows, the other on the front lines as a living banner for his flag. Rogers is also a graphic artist, which I don't think Wayne has ever aspired to be. Both can act as leaders, but Batman is reluctant to be one, whereas Captain America is a born leader, and has far more natural charisma than Batman.

    Equipment and weapons: Batman has literally anything money and connections can buy, from his utility belt to his stable of vehicles to his crimefighting lab to his numerous safehouses and informants, etc. etc. Rogers has whatever S.H.I.E.L.D. and the Avengers provide him with, which is considerable, but chooses to rely mainly on his armored uniform, his bare hands, and his nearly unbreakable shield, which he can throw with superhuman accuracy and power. In terms of Transportation, Rogers prefers motorcycles and whatever the US government, S.H.I.E.L.D. and the Avengers are using, not various bat-themed things.

    Sidekicks: Originally, they were both wisecracking, hot-headed youths. Robin, an orphaned acrobat who Batman saw himself in and took under his wing, Bucky a kid who basically grew up on an army camp and figured out Cap's secret identity. Also worth noting is that Bucky was included from the beginnings of Captain America's story, while Robin was added a bit later. Robin fought crime, Bucky fought WW2. Robin was meant to act as a foil for Batman and a mediator to his dark and brooding nature, while Bucky was meant to accent Cap's righteousness and strength, and act as a representative for America's youth. Both Batman and Captain America had to suffer through the deaths of their sidekicks (though the Robin that died was not the first Robin, and Bucky was), though both were replaced, and eventually resurrected to become anti-heroes. Captain America also teamed with other heroes on an ongoing basis, such as the Falcon, in a way that Batman really didn't (though he teamed up with many different heroes on single occasions)

    Villains: Even without the Avengers, Captain America fights more superhumans than Batman, who deals mainly with psychotic murderers. I would also argue Captain America fights more global threats, while Batman sticks to defending Gotham, while not with the JLA. As expected, both have a nemesis that represents their opposite, The Joker's chaos and crime and murder vs. order and law and the preservation of life in the case of Batman, and the Red Skull's tyranny and anti-americanism and hatred vs. the patriotism, love of liberty, and tolerance of Captain America.

    So yes, there ARE similarities, but I think the differences are far more glaring, especially in terms of the spirit of the characters and the way they were approached for much of their history. I think that Superman is a much better match for Captain America in terms of attitudes and the ideals they represent, and that the crossover between Cap and Bats was meant to really play off their differences (especially in how they approach being heroes) more than their similarities.
     
  4. HordakFan

    HordakFan Banned

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    Both Red Skull and Joker do have similar venom don't you think especially in that crossover?
     
  5. Overlord Balder

    Overlord Balder Voices Slugslinger!

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    Red Skull is actually Joker's perfect opposite, Joker is a Chaotic Mad Artist, Skull is a Order-obsessed Power-hungry Tyrant.

    And I overall agree with Aernaroth, Cap is far closer to Superman [in special, how they seem to be THE beacon of hope for their respective universes].

    Batman's Marvel equivalent would either be Daredevil or The Punisher [though the latter is more in regards of the whole "Consumed by his quest" thing].
     
  6. WidowMaker91

    WidowMaker91 Well-Known Member

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    Nono Cap is pretty much Marvel's Superman in terms of character

    Daredevil is real similar to Bats though probably Wolverine as well.

    Ironman's also a better comparison/contrast me thinks
     
  7. HordakFan

    HordakFan Banned

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    I don't see how Capt is similar to Superman, he has no special powers and i think Capt is like Batman cause he is the most notable powerless member of his own team just like Batman.

    I'd say Hulk is Marvel's Superman as much as Elektra could be Marvel's Catwoman.

    But who else thought it was a logical battle in DC vs. Marvel?
     
  8. SouthtownKid

    SouthtownKid Headmaster

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    Not really.

    Not even a little bit.


    Anyhow, no, Cap and Batman are nothing alike. Their closest similarity is that their storylines seemed to coincidentally (they say) mirror each other somewhat a few times over the past decade or so.

    Personality and attitude. And the fact that Cap is the closest thing Marvel has to a DC character.

    lol what?!!
     
  9. Star Saber

    Star Saber Cybertron 5th Commander

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    Cap and Superman are similar in that they both are looked up to in both their respective universes. Anytime they make a call, you can bet heroes and the regular people will follow. Just because Cap is powerless doesn't mean he's any less an inspirational or effective hero. And no, Hulk is not Marvel's Superman, and neither is Elektra Marvel's Catwoman. They were paired in the crossover for their similarities in power scale, but nowhere are they near otherwise in character. Hulk is a timid scientist turned into monstrous brute constantly misunderstood by the world at large, how is that even close to Superman's character? On the other hand, Elektra is an expert martial artist/assassin for hire with the occasional conscience, Catwoman is a thief, knowledgable in street fighting at best, but hardly a world class fighter.
     
  10. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    That was intentionally done for the purposes of the crossover. The Red Skull is not known for using poisons in the same way the Joker does, and is a lot more ordered in his plans than the Joker's madness. Other than facial deformations and being villains, they have extremely little in common.



    Captain America has superhuman abilities, in the most literal sense of the word. Anything an ordinary man can do, Captain America can do as well if not better. He's stronger, faster, quicker, more durable, and by many accounts smarter than any normal human being. If anything, IRON MAN would be the avenger most closest to Batman, since Iron Man has no abilities besides his fortune, his brain, and his equipment. And Captain America is hardly the most powerless Avenger, I can't even think of a case where that's true in all the various avengers lineups he's been a part of.

    I'm sorry, but none of these connections of yours make any sense beyond a very superficial, and often misunderstood, look at the characters.
     
  11. HordakFan

    HordakFan Banned

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    Well it's true, Hulk and Superman do share similarities. It has been observed in Spider-Man/Superman, DC vs. Marvel and Superman vs. Hulk crossovers. Both were changed by explosions like when Clark was a baby sent by that rocket i think somehow the Earth's rays made him stronger and powerful as much as possible just like the gamma rays did to Banner. Both have similar enemies like Leader and Lex Luthor, both do have weaknesses like Adamantium on Hulk to all kinds to Superman, only difference is one is loved and the other is feared yet trying to make people not be afraid of him but does hurt them whenever they hurt him.

    That's why i believe Hulk is Marvel's own Superman.

    And sure Elektra is not a love interest to Captain America but she is much like Catwoman in some ways.
     
  12. QmTablit

    QmTablit Disguise: Check. Robot...

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    The only real similarity between the two is their physical prowess. But while Batman trained his body to possibly the human body's limit, Cap is a science experiment gone right.

    Other than that, Cap is a soldier first and foremost and Batman's greatest asset is his analytical mind.

    In some ways I like the Batman to Iron Man comparison, but the money has nothing to do with it. Batman would be Batman even without the money, it's not about the "wonderful toys." Bruce Wayne isn't Batman because he's rich enough to be Batman, but because he's smart enough to be.
     
  13. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    Out of curiosity, do you actually read comics or do you just flip through an issue and make conclusions? Jesus Christ, I'm not trying to be hard on you or anything, but this is so mixed up I don't know where to begin.

    The only reason the hulk gets thrown up against Superman is because he's essentially one of the only main Marvel heroes that can actually put up a physical challenge to Superman's god-tier powerset (The main DC heroes are, for the most part, more physically powerful than most of Marvel's). It has nothing to do with the characters being equivalents (and for God's sake stop looking for mirror equivalents between the two universes, THEY AREN'T THERE AS BOTH FRANCHISES APPROACH EVEN THE BASIC AESTHETICS OF THEIR OWN UNIVERSE IN A FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT WAY), because they're nearly opposites. The Hulk represents the monster in all of us, our capacity to hurt others and the ones we love, to ruin ourselves and our lives with the anger inside of us that we can't control (he's also been used as a metaphor for child abuse, drug addiction, and atomic power). Superman is completely different, he represents everything we can aspire to be, if we try: honesty, courage, benevolence, self-sacrifice, determination, hope. Superman is meant to be something that the reader can look to and aspire to be, not to feel sorry for like the Hulk.

    They fight the Leader and Lex Luthor because Brain vs. Brawn is an archetypical conflict dating back to the ancient greeks, and even then, the leader and lex luthor are only alike on a FUNDAMENTAL LEVEL. Lex Luthor is meant to be everything Superman isn't: greedy, paranoid, deceitful, hateful, selfish, and above all else, vain. He is everything humanity CAN be, if we don't watch ourselves. The Leader is about being inadequate and fighting against what you view as power for the sake of being validated. That's why he uses his brain (he desired to be smart), that's why he uses an army of robot-things (he's lonely and a coward deep down), and that's why he wants to reshape the world in his own image (so that he won't be nothing anymore). Lex Luthor is also not a telepath or a telekinetic, he's an ordinary (albeit brilliant) man, and that's the point of him. The hulk isn't even traditionally weak against adamantium the way Superman is to kryptonite, adamantium is just a really strong metal that can hurt or restrain him temporarily (as can other materials like vibranium).

    I mean, if you're basing this all on the crossovers, stop right there, because one of the worst things about the crossovers was that they ignored or completely misinterpreted parts of most of the characters so they could mash them together and try to play them as "exact equals" without offending fans of either company.


    She really isn't. She's an undead Ninja Queen Assassin who became a murderer for hire after the death of her father. She may side with the heroes from time to time, but she always goes back to killin folks for money, because that's what she chooses to do. Her relationship with Daredevil (not Captain America) is complicated, not because she can't quit her career of homicide-for-hire, but because she truly hates him in many ways for the death of her father and all the hurt he's caused her over the years (even if a part of her still loves him). Catwoman is a crook with a heart of gold, who will go out of her way to help the less fortunate, but who can't give up on the life of crime that thrills her and is the only way she's really ever known, even her also complicated-love of Batman. So again, only alike on a very superficial level.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2012
  14. Star Saber

    Star Saber Cybertron 5th Commander

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    Like Aernaroth said, they're just fringe similarities at best. Seriously, Adamantium is Hulk's weakness? Sure he can get wounded, but so does Superman by a number of things, and nowhere is Adamantium close to causing Hulk to fall in pain just by being close to it. Leader is a smart character, and so is Lex, but again vastly different in character, especially when you consider Lex's modern incarnation of being a cutthroat businessman.

    Anyway I think there's no point in further argument, it seems you're one of those posters who've made up their minds about certain things, and won't listen otherwise.

    One piece of advice though before I go, please read Captain America 444 by Waid and Garney, collected in the Cap TPB Operation Rebirth. Clearly you need to read some good Captain America comics and not just crossover ones.
     
  15. Dark Magnus

    Dark Magnus Your opinion is wrong!

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    I would say Bats and Iron Man are more similar to each other. Both rich guys with super hero identities. Both super smart and resourceful. The only difference is Iron Man wears his gadgets.
     
  16. smkspy

    smkspy is one nice fucking kitty

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    I'm going to go with this, seriously Hordak, you're trying too hard to find similarities between these characters just because they fought each other in some crossover.

    Power levels of each character set-up the basis for clashes, nothing more nothing less. Superman versus Captain America would make a very boring and short fight. Superman versus Hulk or Thor, that's something the reader wants to see. Doesn't mean that have similarities though.

    Three points about this;

    1. Krypton exploding did not help to give Superman powers. All Kryptonians underneath a Yellow Sun gain Superman's powers.

    2. Adamantium does hurt Hulk, but it isn't anymore a weakness for him as vibranium would be. Adamantium is not the Marvel equivalent of Kryptonmite.

    3. Hulk's nature is more about uncontrollable rage/power, while Superman 's nature is an example of self-restrain and control of such power.
     
  17. ABH1979

    ABH1979 Anonymous Bucket Head Moderator TFW2005 Supporter

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    Anyone think that Spider-Man is a lot like Spider-Ham, but, you know, a Man instead of a Pig?
     
  18. smkspy

    smkspy is one nice fucking kitty

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    Don't also think that Fred Hembeck, The Punisher, and Deadpool are all extremely similar characters since they've all killed the Marvel Universe?
     
  19. tikgnat

    tikgnat Baweepgranaweepninnybong. TFW2005 Supporter

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    Spider-man and Superman once fought in their crossover, and they are incredibly similar, I mean look at the colours, both have red and blue all over their uniforms!

    Also, Captain America is a steroid abuser. 'Vita Rays'.... hah.

    *runs*
     
  20. ABH1979

    ABH1979 Anonymous Bucket Head Moderator TFW2005 Supporter

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    Stan Lee likes to keep changing his stories, but I know at one point it was said that Spider-Man was created as a direct response to DC's Superman. So I'm sure the coloring and even the slightly phonetic similarities in the name are no coincidence...then there's the day job.
     

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