Anyone else think that the Empire in SW is not evil?

Discussion in 'Movies and Television' started by rattrap007, Jan 6, 2011.

  1. rattrap007

    rattrap007 Insert witty comment here TFW2005 Supporter

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    Anyone else out there convinced that the Rebels are the true bad guys in the Star Wars films and not the Empire?

    Ok look the Empire was a dictatorship, but you never really see them do evil on a day to day basis. So why are they evil? Because Leia and the rebels say so.

    But they blew up Alderan! Yes and no. Think of the Death Star as an atomic bomb on a galactic scale. It is the big weapon you brandish but never want to use. It is a massive deterrent. But who orders the use? A lone officer, Grand Moff Tarkin! Is the entire empire to blame for the act of ONE military leader?

    Look at Courasaunt and Naboo in the prequels and look at them in the Special Edition ending of Jedi. Look the same huh? Obviously the Empire had little to do with day to day operations.

    Look at the old Senate. They can't do jack when one little federation sets up a blockade around one planet. They do nothing other than argue.
     
  2. Optimus1986

    Optimus1986 TMNT & Hulk Fanatic

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    The Empire is the equivalent of Nazi Germany, spreading like a cancer throughout the cosmos and oppressing people's rights. Of course they're the bad guys!

    The Emperor changed the name of "Coruscant" to Imperial City and had statues of himself erected everywhere (which you can see people toppling at the new end of Jedi). That's a MAJOR change.
     
  3. yodafett

    yodafett Well-Known Member

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    The Empire was species-ist and sexist, essentially, another allegory to Nazi Germany. Do I think there were individuals in the Empire who actually had good intentions and sought the order it provided, seeking to change it from within? Yes. Was it wrong from the get-go though? Yes.

    But again, it's all fiction. :) 
     
  4. Rewind

    Rewind Be Kind TFW2005 Supporter

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    I bet Glenn Beck has the exact same theory.
     
  5. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout SANTARN IS COMING AGAIN TFW2005 Supporter

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    The guy who would become the Emperor (Palpatine, I think?) lured Anakin from the Jedi Order with the promise of power to save his wife from dying in childbirth (which I'm guessing was a sham from the start) and then had him lead a battalion of soldiers to the Jedi temple and mass-murder children.

    Additionally, isn't Douku the one who brings the plans for the Death Star to Palpatine (in cloak) at the end of Episode II, when the Empire didn't even exist yet? That the Death Star was already designed before the Empire was even started, added in with the fact that even with a pretty strong grip on known space that the Empire nearly completed a second Death Star anyway, kinda makes the giant planet laser MegaWMD more of a weapon of conquest than of "we're warining you; we've got a planet busting device here! Don't make us use it!" kinda of weapon in my book.

    You do bring up good points, but the Empire has done more than enough amazingly evil things that put it past anywhere near being "the good guys".
     
  6. DrGrim

    DrGrim OBEY

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  7. Hiraga

    Hiraga BILL BILL BILL BILL BILL

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    Shouldn't this right here kind of confirm that they're evil? I mean, not every single Nazi was evil either (My great-grandpa was forced to serve under Hitler, as ashamed as I am of it). But just a few good people here and there doesn't really excuse the actions of the Empire as a whole.
    It's kind of like saying that the Jedi were child-killers because Anakin brutally murdered children. Or for another example, using the same kind of thinking, Luke and the rebels are ruthless terrorists who felt no guilt for all of the lives they took with the Death Star. Luke himself is technically guilty of killing who knows how many people (Probably more than his father).

    Interesting theory, but it doesn't really hold up.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2011
  8. Spoiler

    Spoiler Autobot Spoiler

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    Do you want my Star Wars fan answer, or my 501st Legion answer?
     
  9. Draven

    Draven Banned

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    Interesting topic.
    The Empire brought order to a lot of the galaxy; unfortunately they did it through abject terror.
    The main doctrine of the Galactic Empire was known as "The Tarkin Doctrine"; also referred to as "The Doctrine Of Fear". Here is a quote from it:
    Public examples of entire worlds, to keep the rest in line. I'd certainly consider that as veering towards the somewhat evil side of things.

    Incidentally:
    The Tarkin Doctrine was, as the name would suggest, laid down by Grand Moff Wilhuff Tarkin. This is the same Grand Moff Tarkin who was in charge of the Death Star and gave the order to blow up Alderaan. Earlier in Tarkin's career, a group of activists on the planet Ghorman were protesting tax increases. Tarkin was sent to sort it out. When he arrived, they were protesting on the landing platform.
    So he landed on them.
    Hundreds were killed.
    "The Ghorman Massacre", as it quickly became known, became the perfect example of The Tarkin Doctrine. It also got him promoted to Admiral.
    I certainly wouldn't call any of that the behaviour of a caring administration.

    The Empire was also, as YodaFett mentioned, intensely racist and sexist. Practically the only alien (as in non-human) in a position of power was Grand Admiral Thrawn, and the only known female to rise to the rank of Admiral was Admiral Daala.
    (who, it should be noted, was sleeping with Tarkin. He is also the person who promoted her)
    Not quite. Coruscant as a planet kept its name; however its planet-wide city, originally called "Galactic City", was renamed "Imperial City".
    Then again, what did the New Republic do when they took Coruscant from the Empire?
    Yup, you guessed it. They renamed it again, this time to "New Republic City".
     
  10. yodafett

    yodafett Well-Known Member

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    Almost. Also Ysane Issard, who basically took over her dad's role as Director of Intelligence (by turning him over to the Emperor as a Rebel sympathizer, and rumored to be Palpatine's lover... *shudder*).

    Great post though. :) 
     
  11. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Dry built

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    They blew up a planet for shits and giggles. I'm going to say they're more evil than not. Though I'm sure some minority of the Empire is of good intentions, even if it's just low-level guys.
     
  12. Smasher

    Smasher HUNKY BEATS

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    I think they're quite evil for the reasons everyone listed.

    But, to explore your concept of an Empire that is not evil you should read Star Wars: Legacy.
    Although the Empire is at odds with the New Republic and the Jedi, and some of its members are evil, the Empire itself is not evil, and not without principle.

    Emperor Fel has sense of honor about him.
     
  13. Thorns2010

    Thorns2010 Well-Known Member

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    Ehhhh.....

    I know what the novels say as I've read the majority of them, and I know what the original trilogy showed. But with the new trilogy, to me at least, it seems like George was trying to shy away from the anti-alien bent that the Empire is claimed to have.

    Maybe I am mistaken, but did George ever say outright that his intention was to have the Empire be anti-alien? Or did the expanded universe just take what they saw in the films?
     
  14. Cheetatron

    Cheetatron Eh

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  15. KnightHawkke

    KnightHawkke A Man, Who Does Not Exist. TFW2005 Supporter

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    Lolwut?[​IMG][​IMG] (Ackbar)[​IMG] IT'S A TROLL! (/Ackbar)

    No, they are not at all evil if you look at it through the eyes of a serial killer or Hitler, then hey they are just fine!

    If you look at it though the eyes of anyone who has one ounce of decency or who does not suffer from sociopathic tendencies then its all bad (include the special editions in things that are bad) MMMkay?

    Reality.. do you think it?

    On a less sarcastic side note.
    Sadly however, it doesn't always mean that guys who are listed as "good" are often efficient at stopping said bad guys either.
     
  16. General Magnus

    General Magnus Da Custodes of the Emprah

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    Really? Is your moral compass THAT broken?

    Blowing up Alderan was nothing short of genocide pure and simple and quite frankly it was dickery on a massive scale. Even if Alderaan was aiding the Rebels, why could the Empire not gather a few thousand troops and occupy the planet with minimal causalities? Along with a couple of destroyers to orbit the planet. But no, they have to be massive assholes and blow up a planet.

    Oh and the founder of the Empire was a Sith.
     
  17. Haloid1177

    Haloid1177 Hey, That's Pretty Good TFW2005 Supporter

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    Okay, first off, look at who basically ran the Empire: a Sith and his loyal, powerful minion. Sith are evil. There is no why to deny that all Sith are evil. When an evil group runs a government, and later on, most of the galaxy, the government will be evil. So the government inside the Empire was evil.

    And everyone is talking about the destruction of Alderan, but that wasn't even the first act of evil the Empire did. What about the Jedi Temple massacre? Palpatine sent his loyal servant, Vader, and a shitload of stormtroopers to destroy the people who had protected the Republic. He made Anakin kiil younglings. Does that sound like something that isn't evil? Like something you would be able to live with?

    And then you said because Leia said so. Actually, her father, Bail, raised her to say so. He saw the massacre, albeit in a small amount, in person. That would be an event that can change your view on a government radically. Mon Mothma, Bail Organa, and, going into the EU, Galen Marek, said the Empire was evil way before Leia ever said so. She just was the leader we all saw in the OT.

    So let me ask you one question, and let's see how your opinion changes: would you live under the Empire without a problem?
     
  18. rattrap007

    rattrap007 Insert witty comment here TFW2005 Supporter

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  19. Red Alert

    Red Alert Security

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    The Alliance are a bunch of terrorists with daddy issues.


    If you don't like it go live on Hoth and quit killing civilians on Death Stars.

    As for the Sith, the Jedi have been slaughtering them for thousands of years.
     
  20. Grimlocka go-go

    Grimlocka go-go Back from the Dead TFW2005 Supporter

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    yeah, look what the jedi did to the mandalorians.
     

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