Another silly beast wars question

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by Lion, Mar 21, 2008.

  1. Lion

    Lion Will bite you!

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    I was reading the Shockwave One-Shot. The "Dynobots" had to use synthetic flesh and so on, same with the original beast wars characters. which got me to thinking.....since it's "flesh"...wouldn't it torn apart every time they transformed and become a mess??
     
  2. butz

    butz slippery when wet

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    I'm thinking its more a mesh of tiny metalic "nanomachines" emulating animal flesh rather than actual organic material. Think rather than cells, you've actually got little cell-sized machines. Same thing would be at play with vehicular TFs, just that here they'd have to line themselves up to simulate something very different than they would for a car or plane in order to fit in.
     
  3. Batman

    Batman The Dark Knight TFW2005 Supporter

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    What butz said sounds good enough for me.
     
  4. MECHADOOM

    MECHADOOM I'm Doombot and I know it

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    Something forwarded in Dreamwave's More Than Meets The Eye sourcebooks was that Pretender shell technology could eventually be integrated into theTransformer's alt mode fully, and it was assumed this was a nod to Beast Wars. I think that the flesh on BW characters, whether real or synthetic, would still break up into panels upon transformation. We just don't see the panel lines because they're hidden by fur/scales/feathers/whatever. You know how doctors can grow panels of skin for burn victims out of a few cells? I like to think it's kinda like that, but on a more complex scale.
     
  5. RandomFerret

    RandomFerret Fuzzy Forever

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    We've seen the characters take a beating and get bloodied, so it's definitely organic. The seams are just hard to spot.
     
  6. Chosen

    Chosen Space Ninja

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    Or it could still be imitation organics, but so close you can't even taste the difference. And only half the calories to boot.
     
  7. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Dry built

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    Nope, because it wasn't like a coat they wore in BW, it was part of their bodies and was designed to split and warp during transformation.

    That would defeat the purpose of taking beast forms in the first place. The whole reason they did so was so that the Energon wouldn't overload and damage their robotics. Having the flesh just be really tiny robots makes no sense, since they would short out and so on. Energon radiation doesn't affect organics like it does mechanics, so they covered all their robotics with a beast mode.
     
  8. RandomFerret

    RandomFerret Fuzzy Forever

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    Time travel in The Terminator works the same way.
     
  9. Gingerchris

    Gingerchris Telly-headed Tyrant

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    Also, if you take Beast Machines into account, several times it was mentioned that the Beast Wars only happened to bring organic matter to Cybertron for the final reformatting. So I'd say it's definitely flesh and not tiny robots pretending to be flesh.
     
  10. butz

    butz slippery when wet

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    When did the Beast Wars characters ever actually get bloodied? To quote (well, paraphrase as I haven't watched it in a while) Cheetor "I don't have any actual blood; just mech-fluid!"

    Anyways, I still believe the nano machine theory. The protoforms show them as having a covering of what appears to be liquid metal (somebody made a Terminator reference, so T1000 anybody?) which could easily be explained by an unstable mass (we're talking billions and billions here) of cell-sized nano machines with only some basic (relatively speaking) functionality, supported from the underlying frame. Without being properly organized into a stable system, they would be highly suceptible to being overloaded by energy from energon radiation (moreso than an active cybertronian in it's bot mode). It's bot mode being more sophisticated, it can process energy more efficiently, but can still be overloaded, particularly in an environment like they initially had in Beast Wars. Adopting alternate modes based off local organics (whose organic methods of processing energy, clearly not directly derived from energon, were obviously not being overloaded by the environment) they could use their mechanical bodies to emulate an organic system closely enough that they could process their energy in a way that wasn't as suceptible to the overload. It required studying the oragnisms down to the coding of their DNA to make sure they got enough details to properly emulate mitochondrial energy processing, but whatever.
    Anyways, you don't actually have to be made from actual organic material (as in same atomic makeup as actual flesh and blood) to be able to function the same way (or close enough to it) that a real flesh and blood organism would (including, for example, ingesting plants and being able to synthesize useable energy from their digestion).
    Altering their sytems to emulate animals may have prevented them from using features they'd have in their robot modes, but allowed them to operate in a way that their systems wouldn't become overloaded. This sounds kooky, but it makes a hell of a lot more sense to me than saying they function the same way, same weakness to energon build up, and that somehow an inch or so (pff, if that) of organic flesh somehow shields them perfectly from radiant energy, indefinitely.
    As to the Beast Machines argument; why would they have to bring back actual meat in order for orgnic life to be synthesized on Cybertron? Was that how life on earth came from? there had to be steaks lying around in order for life to be created? Chicken before the egg? The hell with that. All the atoms, all the elements that comprise organic matter would likely have already existed on Cybertron, even if they were never in any way configured to make anything organic. You have a virtually omnipotent, godlike entity (oh, say the Matrix?) and you have these robots emulating organic life to the point that they have the DNA coding for the amino acids stored for reference, and you get a workable plot for creating techno organics bodies that would be immune to the virus thats screwing with everybody else's purely nano-tech systems (including the beast characters from the previous saga).
    I'm not saying this is canon, but I haven't seen anything that directly refutes this, so it's what I use as my explantion for the fiction. You're welcome to believe whatever you want.
     
  11. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Dry built

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    Skipping the rest, let me address this.

    Tigatron got the shit beat out of him in Infero's introductory episode.

    And to elaborate on Cheetor's quote, that could be one of three things:

    1. Most likely a plot hole, since it is a consistant plot device that the Transformers need organic shells.

    2. And off-handed remark on Cheetor's part pleading with Tarantulas. It is Cheetor we're talking about.

    3. Because Tarantulas wanted to eat all of Cheetor, including the robot parts, he mearly tried to explain to Tarantulas that there were no good parts too him in order to save his own life.

    But it has been elaborated in both BW and BM that it is real organics on their bodies. Of course, this all gets changed around once season two hits, but that is the reason for adopting earth beast modes in the first place.


    Also, you completely missed the point of BM. The whole purpose of bringing back organics was that Cybertron was so mechanical that it needed someone to bring organic back to it's core to reformat the planet.
    I don't see how you canb still beleive in the nano-tech theory when it has already been established time and again that it was always organics, not simulated organics which would defeat the entire purpose of both BW and BM.
     
  12. butz

    butz slippery when wet

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    Where was it elaborated on that it was definitively real organic material? Not just like organic material, not simply different from how cybertronians normally configured themselves?
    In BM, yes, it was, finally, real organic, but in terms of atoms, organic matter is just a different way of arranging things; why would they need something already arranged this way when they had blueprints for how to do this and an entity capable of making it happen? Why would they have been affected by the virus at all if they were already purely organic in their beast forms? Did you just gloss over that when you watched BMs? Or is the idea that a planet doesn't have to already have organic life in order for it to synthesize (earth, for example) something you don't understand?


    Edit: to further clear up my point, and refute the "You missed the point of BMs" comment; when they say they brought back the organic to cybertron, what is there to say that what they brought back wasn't simply information? Information needed by the oracle/matrix to sythesize true organic life (even if it did inter mingle it with the existing technology)? The Beast Wars Characters, in my mind, emulated enough of this, and how to make it function well enough that the oracle was able to do what it had planned.

    Edit #2: and who says that was definitively blood on Tigatron? You're operating on heresay here, same as me with my Cheetor quote.
     
  13. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Dry built

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    Fine, you know what? If it makes you happy, you win. They are all robotic with no organic.
     
  14. butz

    butz slippery when wet

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    Actually, they're whatever the canon states they are; I just choose to believe the nano machine theory that Ben Yee had on his site. I could just as easily be wrong, I'm just saying that's the theory I like and until proven otherwise, thats what i'm sticking with.
    If theres some official documentation out there that says they were actual organic cells in Beast wars (and not just a really close copy of them) I'll admit I was wrong. As it is though, its a work of fiction with certain parts up for interpretation and thats my interpretation.
     
  15. jazz4ever

    jazz4ever I'm turned on by numbers

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    you must some how read my mind thats twice you posted almost exactly what i was going to say so i agree
     
  16. Gingerchris

    Gingerchris Telly-headed Tyrant

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    Dinobot's DNA was cloned. I'd say that having DNA would make it organic and not mechanical.
     
  17. Smasher

    Smasher HUNKY BEATS

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    I always thought of kind of the same thing.
    Maybe if you carved a piece of it off a Beastformer and looked at it, it would seem like flesh. Maybe you could even cook it and eat it.
    But scientific study would reveal its true nature.

    I always thought that the Beast Era Transformers "flesh" had some property that allowed it to break at certain predetermined "seams" and recombine at those seams when they are transforming. Perhaps the property is activated when they transform by a current running through it or something.
    Sort of like how a current makes Batman's cape expand out into a glider -although admittedly that is quite a different concept.

    If you consider it though, even the wholly mechanical Transformers have to have this property in their outer parts as well. If you look at a bot that has a hood split in two as his feet, then there has to be some property that allows those two pieces to fuse together without a seam when he is a car.

    I just always imagined their was some component of the "flesh" be it completely organic, or simulated organic that protected them from Energon radiation in their beast modes because they were completely encased in it then.

    Also, I remember Tigatron getting knocked around pretty hard core, but I don't remember him bleeding.
    I do remember that Megatron took a nasty bite out of Primal's leg and he had wires and circuitry underneath the flesh, but no blood.
     
  18. Ramrider

    Ramrider TF Art Lad

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    It's got to be organics to shield them from the energon levels - the Transmetals don't fudge the theory since they were altered in other ways by the quantum surge.
    I'm figuring it's synthetically grown - think in the style of the ear they grafted onto the mouse's back.
     
  19. Autobot Jazz Pr

    Autobot Jazz Pr Well-Known Member

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    Hello , I'm Autobot Jazz Pr(Prime). What is yourth favourite transformer in Beast Wars
     
  20. Autobot Jazz Pr

    Autobot Jazz Pr Well-Known Member

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    jazz4ever where you find white Jazz DeLuxe (in your foto)?
     

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