Another Couple of Rants

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Master Fwiffo, Dec 4, 2006.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Master Fwiffo

    Master Fwiffo Bonecrusher Hates You

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2003
    Posts:
    1,275
    News Credits:
    26
    Trophy Points:
    161
    Likes:
    +26
    While browsing through the various forums on the net, I encountered this discussion about Transformers. Let me post some of the heighlights.

    Yep, same ol. Same ol. See that everywhere these days - here, Murphys, TFLive, even Bays! Many of these are verbaitem whats said on these boards.

    So what's your point Fwiffo? What are you getting at? We know people rant (hell, if your reading this, you've seen it) so what's the deal?

    Ever hear of ATT? Not the phone company. Before I go on, here are some of the *unaltered* quotes.

    What the hell?

    Ladies and gentlemen, *every single one of these quotes is from 1996... about BEAST WARS.*

    Alt.Toys.Transformers was the key TF message board at the time. Luckily, its archives are still online. This is only a sample of the venom spewed at that new 'Beast show' that came out at the time. Don't beleive me? You can check the A.T.T. archives yourself!

    It's all here on the web!


    Now, as you sit and ponder, consider this too. Beast Wars is now considered the best of all TF shows by the majority of the fandom, and is beloved by a number second only to G1. Think about that please.


    Special thanks to Hooks at the Allspark for helping this come out. :D 
     
  2. cuad

    cuad VOK EMISSARY

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2006
    Posts:
    1,644
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    182
    Likes:
    +6
    Beast Wars was well written... in G1/comics continuity.

    That's what throws this argument down Unicron's throat.
     
  3. Katamari Prime

    Katamari Prime Hassan Chop! TFW2005 Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2006
    Posts:
    7,221
    Trophy Points:
    262
    Likes:
    +4
    I know I've done my best to keep an open mind about the affair, I can even understand the why of the designs. In the animated movie, a good portion of the favs are killed of in te first 20 minutes, and look how people revere it now. It just takes time for people to get used to change, That's all it seems to be.
     
  4. Shaun_C

    Shaun_C The REAL One True fan Veteran TFW2005 Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2003
    Posts:
    7,121
    Trophy Points:
    251
    Likes:
    +0
    Heh, I've been saying that for a while Fwiffo. SOME of the comments mirror EXACTLY how Beast Wars was recieved initially in the begining. It's pretty sad that what's considered by many to be the dark days of the fandom is STILL being perpetuated 10 yrs later

    Actually initially the show wasn't going to have ANY connection to G1. Waspinator calling out Shrapnel's name & Cheetor's dream sequence were mainly an inside gag for the old schoolers. Much like how Reboot had a series of inside gags.

    And with Starscream's spark, it was easily also considered that Starscream went to an alternate dimension as he wasn't bound by the rules of reality being disembodied and all.

    A firm G1 connection didn't exist till mid season 2 in the episode "Code of a Hero"

    Besides you can't comment on the movie's writting as no one has seen it yet
     
  5. cuad

    cuad VOK EMISSARY

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2006
    Posts:
    1,644
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    182
    Likes:
    +6
    My only issue(its a small issue) is the human/former ratio. I base it on the Feb script which is outdated, I know. They said more TF screen time, and I believe them so i'm not worried at all.

    It's definitely going to be better than Armada.
     
  6. Gryph

    Gryph Action Master

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Posts:
    10,400
    News Credits:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    267
    Likes:
    +30
    I know the feeling. I've tried explaining the same thing before, to no avail.

    I don't know why people insist it's the end of Transformers when Hasbro decides to try something different. I mean, come on! It's Transformers! It will never die completely. It may go away for a few years, but it will always come back eventually.

    People really need to just calm down.
     
  7. The Phazer

    The Phazer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Posts:
    1,046
    Trophy Points:
    161
    Likes:
    +0
    There are two things that blow this out of the water -

    a) BW was a conscious effort to have nothing to do with Transformers by Hasbro. It succeeded on it's own merit, and didn't use the TF brandname to any noticable extent. And frankly, BW wasn't that much of a success internationally. Did badly everywhere except NA.

    b) This is a movie that is PRIMARILY trading on it's nostalgic connection to a mid twenties audience because they're the key drivers of movie ticket sales. It's not for kids, and unlike BW it has no chance at all of making it's money back if it only connects to a kid audience (which, with a MB film, is unlikely in and of itself).

    This is a completely different situation.

    Phazer
     
  8. Gryph

    Gryph Action Master

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Posts:
    10,400
    News Credits:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    267
    Likes:
    +30
    Nope, sorry.
     
  9. Vangelus

    Vangelus Long Live the New Flesh Moderator Content Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2002
    Posts:
    14,915
    News Credits:
    23
    Trophy Points:
    267
    Likes:
    +29
    Ebay:
    More support to my party line!

    "OMG some people on the internet are annoyed about changes to Transformers!!"

    Note that if you don't capitalize all of 'OMG' you are peddling a knockoff and subject to the scrutiny of my legal affairs office.
     
  10. Ra88

    Ra88 Dutchman!

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2004
    Posts:
    9,236
    News Credits:
    21
    Trophy Points:
    247
    Likes:
    +59
    I'll give it a try:

    It was something new and radically different then what the fans were used to. Prime was suddenly a bat/monkey, Megatron suddenly a gator/T-Rex, and the entire story was different. In other words, it was nothing like the Transformers the fans were used to.

    That's basically it, ignoring the whole different characters/setting/success thing. And just like with Beast Wars, we'll have to wait and see how this will end.:) 
     
  11. Rumble02

    Rumble02 Radicon of Obliticons

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Posts:
    10,204
    Trophy Points:
    267
    Likes:
    +25
    WOW. thats all pretty sad.
     
  12. Master Fwiffo

    Master Fwiffo Bonecrusher Hates You

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2003
    Posts:
    1,275
    News Credits:
    26
    Trophy Points:
    161
    Likes:
    +26
    Yeah, that whole Optimus and Megatron thing didn't have ANYTHING to do with TF, nope not at all.

    Considering how you repeatedly deny things like the fact that Armada succeeded, I call bull.

    Gee, I thought it was trying to be a good action flick based on its own merits, rather then nolstagia. Shows what I know!
     
  13. RHansen

    RHansen Sir. Ranbotnic Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2004
    Posts:
    3,335
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    196
    Likes:
    +1
    all of you, cool it down, if you don't agree with someone else's rant, don't post flamebait responces and all that BS, just give a well thought out and well written responce as to why you don't agree, and be civil.
     
  14. Lycanthropic Tendencies

    Lycanthropic Tendencies Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2006
    Posts:
    523
    Trophy Points:
    147
    Likes:
    +1
    I've never considered Beast wars to be Transformers in anything other than gimmick.

    There are more than a few BW fans who are and have been quick to point out that the Transformers name itself was barely there in the beginning, that BW made it's name as BW as opposed to Transformers - Beast Wars.
    Just like Bionicle, it was successful for being nothing like the product that it came from and refferring to them as Transformers is like saying Bionicle is "just Lego", it's doing a great disservice to both.

    As Beast Wars, the line is beyond comparison. It's great for what it is.
    But as Transformers, compared to any line from G1 to GF, it is deserving of almost every bit of criticism it gets.

    In my opinion.

    And Beastformers in modern series, like GF look as out of place as Gobots and Gundams mixed with Transformers.


    I'm one of what seems to be a rare breed now. A person who likes Transformers but isn't a giant mech fan.
    I also like Macross and the odd robot, but mostly I have no interest.

    This doesn't mean I like Transformers for the "right" reasons, or that the qualities I like are the only qualities Transformers have, but it does mean the design qualities I do like, and there are quite a few, are almost exlcusive to Transformers.
    It also means I am aware when something is losing aspects of the design identity unique to Transformers and becoming either more unique or more like pale imitations of other designs.
    To Beast Wars' credit, it did become more unique. Not my style, but a style of it's own.

    As far as the show goes, it's a good show.
    It's not the Masterpiece that some treat it as, I thinlk they still have the glasses many G1 show fans wear, but it's a solid show, coming in behind RiD and GF in my opinion.

    However, as Phazer mentioned, it became tied in to G1 at some point.

    This changes the context of the show tremdously.
    The rich history of G1 comic and show become it's history. It's no longer a random reinvention, it's an evolution.
    Theres nothing revutionary about doing something differently in a what if or Ultimates way.
    They're expected to be different, it's the safe approach.
    But by taking those same directions as a sequel to something that has gone before, by changing the way it too was percieved by advancing your own story, you're achieving so much more.

    It's not everyone, but Beast Wars is more loved no because of the G1 link. It bolstered it, added depth, it changed the context of the show.
    And viewed as that becomes the best piece of TF fiction since the G1 comic.

    I see the point Fwiffo is making.
    People see a new take on Transformers, they freak, say a lot of stuff.
    Then several years later, the freaky and different is the common place status quo and everyone loves it, but something new comes along and people say the same stuff all over again.

    And that is true in part, especially for old G1 fans that have been brought back to transformerdom by the movie's hype.

    But by that same token, many have still not accepted Beast Wars. Others have but not in the way some think.
    The ways and reasons BW and it's designs have been embraced by the fandom are many and some very particular to the nature of the line.

    The movie may be embraced, it may not be.

    But it will have more to do with numerous circumstances, many of which we could not predict and less to do with an oversimplified portrayal of fear of something different.

    For every Beast Wars, there is an Animporphs.
    Similarities are always going to be there in opinions, that does not mean as much as some may think and does not mean the outcome will be the same.
     
  15. Ger_Hankey

    Ger_Hankey Now hiring evil minions

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2005
    Posts:
    367
    Trophy Points:
    121
    Likes:
    +0
    Regardless of our opinons on the designs and how different they may be, this movie will suceed or fail on how good it is, not how much/little it relates to other TF continuities. If Beast Wars was a badly written show, it would have fallen on its ass, like the Armada/Energon ones.
     
  16. betetta

    betetta guitar face

    Joined:
    May 14, 2004
    Posts:
    474
    Trophy Points:
    111
    Likes:
    +0
    well, i don't know about europe, but BW and specially BM did terrible in southamerica as far as i know.

    sorry, but that big lot of rants only proves that there are a lot of whiners in our fandom, anything else is very relative.

    beast wars had fugly designs of the characters and a poor original concept to me, what made the show great was it's writing (as in development of the story, mostly due to the G1 mythos added in season 2) and the CGI itself that was pretty good.

    now if we compare to the new movie, we have to say that orci and kurtzman aren't as good as ditillo & forward were, and the story (i'm taking the leaekd script as my only source) isn't even close to how good beast wars story was, i can even dare to say that despite of being a cartoon, beast wars was way more mature than this movie will be. (again, my source is not final, just lthe leaked script) despite some killings of characters and the "x-fles/ID4 homage" (i don't know how else to call that point of the plot) it's mainly a teen flick combined with "f***ing giant robots" battling around for a few screen minutes.

    this movie will be (most likely) a good action flick with cool effects, but that's it. to me there are very few chances of it getting all the praises that BW deserved.
     
  17. The Phazer

    The Phazer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Posts:
    1,046
    Trophy Points:
    161
    Likes:
    +0
    BM did so well in Europe it got cancelled after all of two deluxes. It did not do well. Significant chunks of the third year of BW didn't get released. The show got buried on a channel no one watched. It didn't do well.

    But even so, this show doesn't have to do well on a level with BW. It if takes BW money it makes a staggering loss, and unlike BM it's target audience is the early/mid-20s (like any action movie) who are much more nostalgia lead than the kids who bought into BW.

    Phazer
     
  18. Steevy Maximus

    Steevy Maximus Movie Megs eats your soul

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2003
    Posts:
    2,626
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    201
    Likes:
    +1
    At least not now, or shortly after the film is released. Beast Wars popularity in the fandom really didn't seem to increase until those kids who watched Beast Wars became collectors, or, in many cases it seems, fans actually watched the series or played with a toy.

    It's amusing to consider Beast Machines has come under a far softer light in the past couple years, and even Armada is generally not considered as "atrocious" as it was the first time around.

    I think it will be quite interesting to see what the general perception of the film will be in another few years
     
  19. kjeevahh

    kjeevahh n/a

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2006
    Posts:
    4,101
    News Credits:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    201
    Likes:
    +4
    HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA fucking hilarious best post ive seen on these boards.

    SO TRUE

    ther eisnt a single argument levelled at the movie that isnt also applicable to every transformers series post g1... get over it people!!!!!!
     
  20. The Phazer

    The Phazer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Posts:
    1,046
    Trophy Points:
    161
    Likes:
    +0
    Honestly? I think nostalgia is a bigger factor for the audience than the actual quality of the movie.

    And there's plenty of evidence for that over the years...

    Phazer
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page