Another '86 Movie Question

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by aey103, Nov 28, 2007.

  1. aey103

    aey103 Well-Known Member

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    The dinobot question earlier brought up another question I have always wondered about the '86 Movie. When Optimus is on his death bed he intends to pass the Matrix to Ultra Magnus as every one knows but it slips out of his hands and Hot Rod catches it. By Prime dropping, Magnus never touching it, and Hot Rod being the first to touch it after Prime drops it, did the Matrix accidentally get passed to Hot Rod instead of Magnus as Prime intended. When Hot Rod graps it before hitting the floor the screen gets all blue and stuff, which I see as Hot Rod acctually having the Matrix passed to him. This is one one reason I see as Magnus not being able to "Unleash" the power of the Matrix on the Planet of Junk and Hot Rod later being able to do inside Unicron. Any one else think that too?

    Second part of the question, assuming the above, is if the Matrix acctually was handed cleanly to Ultra Magnus. Would Magnus have been able to "Deal With It" and been able to open the Matrix and destroy Unicron. Yes the movie would not have been as dramatic as having Hot Rod rise up and all that, but just a wondering question.

    I realize all this would probably not have held water later in the series and would be a huge plot hole, but come on it's not like there aren't any to begin with. I am just thinking from the movie point of view alone and not taking into account the comics either, which I am not sure if anyone else opened the Matrix but I recall a few Decepticons carrying it.
     
  2. smkspy

    smkspy is one nice fucking kitty

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    Hot Rod was the chosen one. It may have been carried by Prime and Magnus, but the chooses who it'll bestow its power on. My take is that the Matrix only can be in the absolute worst of times like Unicron destroying Cybertron or the uncurable hate plague.

    Also, I think the matrix had to be inside or the very least close to Unicron to have its power actually destroy him.

    My question is this, apparently everyone in the room saw the matrix glow bright blue and white when Hot Rod caught it. You think someone would've wondered why that happened.
     
  3. hXcpunk23

    hXcpunk23 The Chaos Bringer

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    Optimus Prime wanted Ultra Magnus to carry the Matrix temporarily. He trusted him with it and told him that an Autobot would rise through the ranks to assume control of the Matrix and Autobot leadership (it's not quoted word for word, but it's in the movie).

    I believe Ultra Magnus could have been a great leader, BUT Hot Rod was "the chosen one". The Matrix chose him, which explains the blue light when he caught it and handed it to Magnus. During The Return of Optimus Prime (the end of Season 3), Ultra Magnus tells Rodimus that he's done a fine job as Autobot leader and that even Optimus Prime had the same doubts and concerns when the Matrix was passed to him. He was chosen by the Matrix, just as Hot Rod was.

    Only Optimus Prime and Hot Rod/Rodimus Prime have opened the Matrix (during the G1 series) and those Decepticons that had contact with it never opened it. Galvatron had it in the movie and in Season 3, but the ancient Autobot leaders filled the room (in spirit) and told him to return the Matrix. Scourge then took it upon himself to try and unseat Galvatron and use the power of the Matrix to basically rule all. The Matrix infected him (though he never opened it, just put it into his chest) and it made him more powerful, but more of a loose cannon and threat to everyone. The Decepticons could not harness the true power of the Matrix because it couldn't be opened by evil (I remember them saying this at some point after the Transformers animated movie--possibly in that same episode).

    Only an Autobot leader who is chosen by the Matrix has the power to unleash it's energy and wisdom.
     
  4. Easterling Capt

    Easterling Capt I am Vern Schillinger

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    speaking of the Matrix. Is the autobot Matrix the same Matrix look alike you see in Call of the Primates ? If so it would explaine how it could destroy Unicron.
     
  5. smkspy

    smkspy is one nice fucking kitty

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    Besides great animation, I tend to ignore that origin for the Matrix and Unicron cause...well it sucked.


    I always took UM's words to RP as just words of comfort not that the Matrix chose Prime like it did Hot Rod. Since Alpha Trion build Prime in the cartoon, the Matrix was passed to him without it choosing him. The Matrix choose Prime to let him open it to stop the hate plague, but he was last man standing. I bet the Matrix would've let any Autobot open it at that particular point.
     
  6. noob_collection

    noob_collection noob at collecting

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    I don't give duty's to people who were key instruments in my death.

    But thats just me.
     
  7. hXcpunk23

    hXcpunk23 The Chaos Bringer

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    The only thing is, they never really stated WHEN Optimus Prime received the Matrix. It could have been in that moment when Alpha Trion built him, or it could have been at a later point. In that episode, it only gave a glimpse of how he went from being Orion Pax to the Optimus Prime we know. Then again, there's that whole question of becoming a "Prime" when the Matrix has chosen a successor. Hot Rod grew to become Rodimus Prime thanks to the Matrix, so it makes you wonder if Optimus Prime grew from that as well, or if he was simply built by Alpha Trion to look like that.

    I really think that only an Autobot leader who possesses the Matrix can open it or use it's power (at least that's what I got from the animated movie and the episodes coming afterward). That would explain why Ultra Magnus couldn't open the Matrix or "light their darkest hour" as Prime said. I belive that once Prime returned, the Matrix chose him again, because he was the true leader and the Matrix belonged to him. If you follow this into the Japanese Headmasters series, just before Optimus Prime sacrifices himself to stop Vector Sigma from destroying everything, Alpha Trion tells Rodimus to lift up the Matrix and he begins to resurrect it with wisdom and power. It could be that both Alpha Trion and the Matrix energy knew that Prime was to die once more, so that is why Rodimus keeps the Matrix at this point (since he was "the chosen one" to succeed Optimus Prime). He game Optimus Prime some of the Matrix energy and he told Rodimus he would take care of Vector Sigma.

    Who knows? Maybe I'm just reading too much into it.
     
  8. smkspy

    smkspy is one nice fucking kitty

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    Well if we didn't then we wouldn't be here lol.

    For my own continuity, I don't use the cartoon beyond 'MTMTE' and the movie. Its just too random and poorly though of ideas created without any thought to a bigger picture.
     
  9. hXcpunk23

    hXcpunk23 The Chaos Bringer

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    lol

    Hot Rod was just trying to help, but he got in the way of Prime's shot (then again, would Optimus Prime actually shoot to kill Megatron if given that chance, WITHOUT Hot Rod in the way? I have my doubts).

    The Matrix chose Hot Rod (I'm assuming) because it knew he had great leadership qualities in him.............too bad Rodimus Prime didn't show those qualities until the Japanese Headmasters series (and even then, he was only in 10 episodes, then he took off). After that, I don't recall much else mentioned about the Matrix.
     
  10. hXcpunk23

    hXcpunk23 The Chaos Bringer

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    Very true. lol

    In a way, Headmasters gels really well with the original series, but it did have a LOT going on. It seems like they tried to force too much into that series and it could have been done a little better (but I still enjoyed it all). I just wish the G1 series (MTMTE) could have gone a bit more in-depth with everything, which is why I loved Season 2 most of all. It finally started telling some of the real history behind it all and introduced some things that played larger parts later on (in the movie, Season 3, and Headmasters).

    If I really had my way though, I'd want to see exactly what the hell happened during the 20 years leading up to "2005" and Transformers: The Movie. They could really do a great G1-inspired series that would appeal to us old school fans and let the newer fans see what it was like (as most of them have now seen the animated movie and G1 series itself). The next best thing is The War Within "animated" stuff being worked on (check YouTube--I can't recall who is doing it, but it's pretty cool--it's bringing The War Within comics to life, if you can call it that).

    But I really want to see a series that is placed between 1985 and 2005 that deals with the things that happened during that time (including a REAL introduction of Ultra Magnus--maybe even go as far as letting us know whether it really isOrion Pax's old pal Dion or not--show us how Metroplex was built--not just a glimpse like they dropped us in Scramble City--and let us see where Hot Rod, Kup, Springer, Arcee, etc. all were leading up to the movie). I know I'm not the only one to think of something like this. My inner Transformers nerd is screaming for this stuff. lol
     
  11. Lock Cade

    Lock Cade Tarn Fangirl TFW2005 Supporter

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    Yeah, now that you've mentioned it... why hasn't anybody else in the room wonder why the Matrix glowed when Hot Rod touched it?


    At least the Matrix glowing in Hot Rod's hands had given us a hint that it was Hot Rod and not Ultra Magnus that would be the next Prime.
     
  12. smkspy

    smkspy is one nice fucking kitty

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    Well, closest you'll probably get is DW's G1. It seems that their G1verse was set between Season 2 and the movie. At least the first mini-series led us to believe this. Though whenever Mick took over he moved the time of the setting up somewhat so I'd say its set between the end of the first half of season two and the start of the second half of season 2. He really went to explaining alot of the stuff we didn't see in the cartoon: the explanation for the appearance of all the series 2 Autobot cars, the building of Metroplex, and such...man I miss that series.
     
  13. hXcpunk23

    hXcpunk23 The Chaos Bringer

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    I have all of those (and yes, I miss that series--although IDW seems to be doing well with theirs).

    I just want to see it animated. :) 
     
  14. Grimlock_13

    Grimlock_13 Reformed Geewunner

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    As a kid I always thought Hot Rod catching the Matrix is what made him the chosen one....then as I watched it again when I was older I realized it was just foreshadowing.
     
  15. Lock Cade

    Lock Cade Tarn Fangirl TFW2005 Supporter

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    Exactly what I had just pointed out earlier... it's a hint that it's Hot Rod -- and not Ultra Magnus -- that'll be the next Prime.
     
  16. Backscatter

    Backscatter Autobot Brainmaster TFW2005 Supporter

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    Actually, in a weird way, Ultra Magnus glowed too when he first took on the Matrix, but this didn't become apparent untill the Takara/eHobby Shining Yellow Ultra Magnus. Supposedly we didn't see this in the Movie because once he took on the Matrix, the scene immediateedly cut to show Kup looking at Optimus Prime's life signs.

    I know Action Figure =/= Movie, but we didn't exatctly see what happened to UM more than a moment after he closed his chest plate. I think the only reason Ultra Magnus couldn't open the Matrix was because it wasn't yet the "Darkest Hour".
    Optimus Prime had faith in him. Even if Ultra Magnus didn't have time for it.


    Hot Rod said "Forgive me" to Optimus, but I never heard a reply. The first Prime knew Hot Rod was responsible as did Hot Rod. That's why Rodimus had such issues with his own ego. Anyway, Season 3 writing tore the whole "Chosen One" concept to shreds. The bad writing continues on to Headmasters. Cybertron gets blown apart so how does Rodimus lead? He leaves! Leaving a confused Cerebros/Fortress in charge. RP never to be seen again in the G1 cartoon era. The only good thing he did was to take Blurr and Shitpiece with him. :wink: 
     
  17. SureShot90

    SureShot90 Peace=superior firepower

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    I always saw it as a sign that when Hot Rod catched the Matrix he was the next.
    The blue lightning effect was just to make it more clear to the audience that something was happening between those two, and it was not a light shown/visible to the other TF - it's just a typical movie-underlining-plot-effect used in a bunch of movies.

    I might be the only one who finds the whole Rodimus Prime problematic quite legitimate, I think the episode The Burden Hardest To Bear says it all and highly changed my perception of Rodimus.... Kup says Optimus Prime went through the exact same things when he was called to leadership, but as we all got thrown into the already staged TF universe we had a O.P already an old and wise leader. Had the series begun with us seeing Prime with the same problems then the picture of him might not be the one we have today. Now with Rodimus we see first hand how the mantle of leadership takes effect on a young lad who quite fast rose in the ranks and suddenly became leader with a hughe responsibility... now why is it so bad to depict these sides of leadership ? doubting yourself etc ! now that what made season 3 for me.. It was dark and more mature, and not all kiddy-yahoo-like as 1st season at least IMO.

    Japanese Headmasters anyway I think was horribly written compared to season 3 and I only own it just to see some more to the headmasters etc.
     
  18. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Dry built

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    Primates? They're all apes now?:D 

    :lol  Yeah, it wasn't chance that Hot Rod was leader, Magnus was never meant to be the leader in the first place, Optimus knew that, but knew Hot Rod wasn't ready.
     

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