An honest plea.

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by The Demolisher, Jun 30, 2007.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. The Demolisher

    The Demolisher Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2007
    Posts:
    219
    Trophy Points:
    56
    Likes:
    +0
    I've just been readin some threads and I'm immensley upset at the bile and hatred directed towards people solely for, well, acting like fans. I'm trying to cover everything as to why whiners feel and act the way they do about the movie, Hasbro in general, and the new art style for TF: Animated. Not all of this or perhaps even most is my own opinion - I'm trying to get into the heads of people. I want this topic to clear up misconceptions and hopefully sort things out. This post will be far too long for a lot of people to read - which might be a good thing in terms of replies I'll get. It's long. It will take between 5 and 10 minutes to read - this is an essay, essentially. If you don't like it - don't read.

    I was put off from joining for quite some time - I saw a lot of people mount good arguments, only to be torn down and end up disappearing, a lot of stuff I didn't really want to be a part of.

    So I'm now posting with an honest plea - respect your fellow man's opinion! You can be critical of other people's opinions, if you really think they're sheepish - but don't tear into them or put so much pressure to change their opinion!
    This is probably the most Pro-Movie board and is also the one that has the most pressure, the most flaming towards people who are not. Do you think this is coincidence?

    People are naturally subject to social pressure - to change, and I believe a lot of support.

    Sure, it's looks like it's a GOOD movie, but at the same time, most of our fears have been realised in it - poor Decepticon characterisation, many unrecognisable designs,

    It's only natural that people would be skeptical of the new cartoon series - it's not as if they hit a home run with the movie, even if it's supposedly quite good.

    The movie was NEVER going to flop the way it was. It's a first, it's visually impresive - giant robots have never been done before. Do you really think the first half decent giant robot flick is going to pull in bad reviews? The way Hollywood critics are going - they hate complicated plots, and almost always go for simpler ones these days. Look at how under-rated POTC 3 was - or even Spider-man 3, it was better than the ratings it got.

    This doesn't mean it is the best movie the movie could have been.

    They had to PUSH for the TFs to even talk. Why doesn't that send shivers down anyone else's spine? Just think what we very nearly got.

    A lot of people don't realise that there are some serious flaws with the movie - just because TF "isn't Shakespear" - it has to have such a flimsy plot and poor characterisation? Nothing is just a toy, or a comic - TF has a marvellous concept and some excellent characters that could be used to tell a fantastic story, and one that could work beautifully on the big screen.
    The designs are inherently diffficult to understand in some cases - Ironhide's legs especially. I can see action scenes being very confusing.

    I hate that some people say that the "whiners" look stupid now - what, for having an opinion many still stick to? Again, this movie is a first, a big whirlwind - people are going to get caught up in it.

    But what's upsetting Re: Lack of resemblance to G1 is that people really wanted something like that, a movie of "The" Transformers, and it's sad we're not getting that. There are three of these movies, even if this one flopped, that would mean that none got made, really.

    A movie was not going to flop for having nostalgia in it. That's complete nonsense. If it's something non-fans won't know - it will be new to them either way. The movie is obviously going to explain things ground up so continuity won't be an issue.

    Many of the designs look nothing like the originals - why couldn't we get an Ironhide or Ratchet or Megatron that looked like the originals? Even if it had to use the current aesthetic(The reason people dislike the aesthetic is that it has a "sliding panel" look - it's not bold and solid like the japan-originating designs, probably not as realistic ultimately for war machines, even if it's only a bit of armour paneling, it's a heck of a lot better than none) Prime and Jazz look like who they're meant to be - why not the others? The designs are not "old" - since they'd be updated. We've never seen a high detail version of Ironhide and Ratchet.

    Starscream is a big fan-upsetter - a lot of people don't get the sort of archetype he represented. He was the western equivilent of a Bishi, essentially. His failure was part of hsi charm - you almost felt sorry for him. He doesn't need to be turned into some big lumbering ape with machine guns - this is the kind of thing people joke about with movie adaptions. Why don't people realise this?

    Size is not an excuse - the main issues with SS are his head, and the positioning of his arms. If his huge shoulders folded around, his arms were higher, and he had his repaint toy head - people wouldn't have such an issue with the design.

    Why did Ironhide have to be black and not dark red? Why did Ratchet have to be septic and not white? Why did Prime have to have tacky out of character(especially for the movie version from what I've played of the DS game, and I don't accept "This is a New Prime!" as an excuse - it should be a fair representation of the original character people know and love, if the name, role and context are the same) flames and not fades(Laser Prime) or geometric patterns(a lot of european trucks)? Since Megatron is Cybertronian and can look like anything anyway, why couldn't he have looked big and bold and bulky like Megatrons tend to be, preferably like the original most recognise? People don't mind Megs changing since it's his "Thing" - his original design was "sligthly" generic, but at least have it look like something Megs would wear.

    These are questions the "Whiners" are still asking themselves. It would not have hurt the movie if these things were not there upsetting them - it would have improved recognisability among the masses and better pleased the fans.

    This is what gets at people. "A Whole New TFs" - is not really what a movie of something is meant to be. I would ADORE a real "Whole New TFs" like Beast Wars was - new characters entirely. But what we're getting is something that's essentially trying to be the best version of G1 there is - which is why cries of "THIS IS NOT G1" sounds stupid to people who don't think like that.

    It SHOULD be G1, because G1 is what most people know and accept. Everything after G1 is essentially a Spin-Off - it seems kind of wrong to make the "first" TF movie something new. There is plenty of room for new ground in cartoons and comics - why can't it be covered there?

    Devevstator has to be the ultimate insult - if it's in the final draft of the movie, it means that to avoid confusion, they probably will never use Devestator in the movies. The movie guys aren't clever enough to think of interesting ideas like "He gets blown up"

    One of the more interesting characters Bio-wise was Bonecrusher - who barely appears in the movie. Sad. But even then he was still pretty monstrous in his bio.

    And why the hell did fans bitch about Arcee(this is the "Fembot" section of this post, my own personal pet peave)? It was a cool design, drawing from Energon Arcee who had a very interesting bio. I think there's a real laddish thing here - why do you presume the character would be exactly like the original? Or are you making excuses for no female bots? I think a race of robots with gender is an interesting concept to explore, the whys and hows - why is it acceptable for them to be human shaped(the movie bots are more than ever, they only look more "alieN" since they're randomly cramming parts into a human shape) and have human facial features in some cases, but not have traits like Gender? Gender is extremely likely to occur, with similiar roles, in other species too - think about it, and how it applies to evolution. Since robots are based on biological life to begin with, there's no reason why it shouldn't carry over. Men and women think differently and are good at different things. Having sentient robots optomised in the same way is a good idea.

    Arcee is the best recognised female name, and the easiest personality to build upon without betraying the original. It upsets me immensely that this cool design did not make it into the movie.

    But of course, we've never even gotten a toy of the original Arcee, thanks to Hasbro scrapping her!(and it not being terribly good to begin with, to be fair).

    The new TF:Animated is just rank. Why? Because we have enough Teen Titan-like shows as it is. We don't need another with giant robots. The bendy, overly comic style of Teen Titans worked for that - but for big, bold, robots, it's a poor represnetation. Bulkhead will go down as the worst morphformer in history, excluding maybe Savage Noble.

    It's the direction that TFs DIDN'T need to move in. What both the movie and the new series should ahve done, was been more mature - move AWAY from the Decepticons being big scary bad guys(or hardly there at all!) and move to them being an opposing team, opposing faction, who tend to be in the wrong but have occasional heroics, and have one or two really "Evil" guys (like Unicron, but something new).

    Why? Because these are the toys kids would buy. Kids don't like to buy bad guys - they can't relate to them. They need bad guys for the good guys to fight - but will never buy more than they need. This is why Toybiz's Spider-man line had so few villains to Spider-men. Make the Big Bad Villains REALLY cool, and kids will buy them - and if the decpeticons are an opposing factions, kids won't feel bad buying them.

    Heck, it's put me off buying Barricade. I WANT him, but I just got Scorponok and Blackout. I want more good guys, guys I can relate to!

    It annoys me that Hasbro has not done this. They "sort of" tried it with Starscream in the Unicron Trilogy(which was interesting because it was still pretty much G1 Starscream personality wise - some people seem to misremember and think he was entirely different, I love the idea of Starscream as an anti-hero and want to see it again).

    The big reason for the last bit is - the Movie does the opposite of this. Having the Decepticons as somewhat monstrous shady terrorists with all their foreigner talk and barely any english means we can't relate to them. It puts me off buying them.
    Megatron's coolest moments in the comic was when he was a bad-ass anti-hero - teaming up with the 'bots against Galvatron or with Prime against the Evolticons - that kicked ass; his role shift from authoritarian to bad ass shady action hero figthing against worse authoritarians worked well. Not to mention how kick ass G2 Megs would have been as a movie design.

    The fact is Hasbro does not care about you, not anymore. They pushed for this for brand recognition. They approved something they knew would tear the fanbase apart, and again with the animated designs. They scrapped all their collector based lines all in one fell swoop - even though Classics sold quite well. This would have been fine if they had come up with something different - they didn't. We get NOTHING.

    They purchase Marvel Legends and ruined those too just in case you wanted to try collecting what was the most collector friendly line to escape from Hasbro's nonsense.

    Just like Marvel - they are moving towards being an IP company. This is generally a sign, as it was with Marvel, that they no longer need or care for the fans.

    No more apologists. Please. Hasbro HAVE messed up. I'm sure they'll come up with "Something" for later - but for the time being, they have let us down. Please just accept this - you don't have to defend them just because you buy their toys. Maybe if you had to pay double for every TF here in europe, you'd understand a bit better.

    Over all, it is okay to complain! The most classic thought control tactic is to make someone feel immature - it's how teenage rebellion is disolved, how subcultures are kept under control, and it works a charm for toy collectors who are obviously going to be made feel insecure by a society that frowns upon their hobby.

    Complaining is NOT immature. It often takes guts to whine and bitch, because of the accusations of immaturity that will come back at you. Because a Baby cries, and whining is sort of like crying, and they're both kind of tantrums, whining is immature?

    If someone finds something wrong with something, anything, they complain. And so they should - it's the INTELLIGENT thing to do. Sometimes, merely complaining about something is enough. Not everyone, most people are not in a position to do anything about issues bigger than themselves - but other people can, and this is one of the reasons why it's natural to complain, so people can hear this and change us.

    The absolute only reason to call "whining" immature is thought control, dissolving opinions that oppose your own - no other reason. If you can make people feel bad for raising their voices in opposition to your views - then those voices are silenced.

    It's a horrid practice and I'm pleading with everyone to stop it. No smart answers, no calling me a "Buttfucker". I'm being respectful here, even though I honestly feel like going nuts after some of the things I've read.

    This applies to EVERYONE on the board - whether you've not even signed up yet, one of the staff, a supporter, or normal member, whoever you are - please don't shift your weight, try to force your views on someone unless it's absolutely necessary. I'm not trying to force anyone to do anything here myself, I'm not complaining - I'm just honestly asking to think like a compassionate human being, and actually give a shit about the person you're talking to. Since many of you are poor at emphatising, at knowing others thoughts - I've just posted them for you. You now have the facts of how others think; the few of you that have made it this far, please spread this attitude to those who haven't.
    It's not as hard as it sounds - the only reason you're doing otherwise is that the Internet has people believe it's cool to be an asshole just because you can.

    Rebuttals to this do not matter. There is no need for them. Please do not try to counter that - it is not an argument. It is how people feel. You can at least respect that.
     
  2. smkspy

    smkspy is one nice fucking kitty

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2004
    Posts:
    20,315
    Trophy Points:
    322
    Likes:
    +79
    [​IMG]

    I had something really mean, but I've decided to be nice.
     
  3. Cosbydaf

    Cosbydaf Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2007
    Posts:
    753
    Trophy Points:
    101
    Likes:
    +0
    Finally, someone with some common sense!
     
  4. ILoveDinobot

    ILoveDinobot Arise Rodimus Prime

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2006
    Posts:
    15,005
    News Credits:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    287
    Location:
    Long Island
    Likes:
    +36
    Twitter:
    :horse: 
     
  5. KA

    KA PENIS GOES WHERE?!!

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2003
    Posts:
    23,225
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    312
    Likes:
    +17
    do not want
     
  6. Radioactive Ravage

    Radioactive Ravage Ancient

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2007
    Posts:
    3,754
    Trophy Points:
    151
    Likes:
    +0
    Sorry, I lost interest at "Respect your fellow man."

    Was that the moral of the post? 'Cause if so, I got it.
     
  7. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Dry built

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2005
    Posts:
    66,364
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    407
    Location:
    agile house
    Likes:
    +844
    :horse: 
     
  8. redsquadron

    redsquadron Token idiot...

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2003
    Posts:
    2,390
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Likes:
    +0
    As long as you acknowledge the vitriol travels in both directions and don't try to portray those who don't like the film as put-upon champions of Transformers righteousness (don't even dare suggest it after the crap I've put up with over the last year simply because I supported the film)
     
  9. The Demolisher

    The Demolisher Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2007
    Posts:
    219
    Trophy Points:
    56
    Likes:
    +0
    Hold on - if I'm "beating a dead horse" what difference does that make? There is still a serious problem with respect - how in the hell is beating a dead horse an approriate response to that if it's still happening?

    That's like saying World Peace is "beating a dead horse" - I honestly can't think of a single more absolutely stupid response, though no doubt when I flick to page 2 I'll find something.

    Or is it people thinking they're so smart they can reply to a post without reading it?
     
  10. Cobalt Agent

    Cobalt Agent My dick kills dinosaurs

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2005
    Posts:
    3,669
    Trophy Points:
    207
    Likes:
    +10
    Here's my take on the whole thing-

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Context. Or something.
     
  11. The Demolisher

    The Demolisher Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2007
    Posts:
    219
    Trophy Points:
    56
    Likes:
    +0
    I won't deny SOME anti-movie people are jackasses - but the vast majority of nastiness comes from the pro movie crowd- which in turn leads me to believe much of the jackassery in opposition may be exclusable depending on context - getting angry with people over the initial opinion pushing doesn't count.

    You don't see near the amount of weighted terms from anti-movie people towards pro-movie people. I can think of a ton of things that would fit, but I'm not going to - though some really do deserve to be called apologists(which is a more negative thing than disliking something as far as I'm concerned).

    Why do you feel the need to call everyone who feels passionate about their opposing opinion a "Hater"? Or anyone at all? Getting angry and swearing and flipping someone off is one thing - writing them off with a horrible weighted term like "Hater" is another. Why can't you just accept some people will mount arguments in opposition to what you like? Nobody is telling you not to like it! In the mean time, we HAVE to put up with this movie, have to put up with the perhaps unfortunate level of fan support when we could have gotten something better. You're(you being used collectively, here) already getting what you want - why do you have to be the mean ones?

    It's a horrible, horrible thing to do and I have no idea why people don't realise it.
     
  12. ILoveDinobot

    ILoveDinobot Arise Rodimus Prime

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2006
    Posts:
    15,005
    News Credits:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    287
    Location:
    Long Island
    Likes:
    +36
    Twitter:
    It's not you personally. calm down, maybe you just haven't lurked long enough. But since or maybe before the movie forum went up, posts like this come up all the time doesnt matter if you are for or against and it doesn't matter what. It doesn't matter if you think you can make a difference and make peace between everyone with different opinions. It is just beating the dead horse. No matter what you post someone on this board is going to want to argue with you no matter what! and that is beating a dead horse.
     
  13. Cobalt Agent

    Cobalt Agent My dick kills dinosaurs

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2005
    Posts:
    3,669
    Trophy Points:
    207
    Likes:
    +10
    Can't we all just drop it and stop blaiming either side for being more nasty? Who cares?
     
  14. IACON

    IACON "That's Vector Sigma?" TFW2005 Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2005
    Posts:
    4,048
    Trophy Points:
    216
    Likes:
    +5
    Seconded!
     
  15. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Dry built

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2005
    Posts:
    66,364
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    407
    Location:
    agile house
    Likes:
    +844
    I agree aswell!
     
  16. The Demolisher

    The Demolisher Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2007
    Posts:
    219
    Trophy Points:
    56
    Likes:
    +0
    I hate that. Who cares that every single topic about movie criticism turns into fan bashing? I certainly do. It is not cool not to care - it makes you apathetic, which as the saying goes, is one letter away from pathetic.

    The pro-movie side IS more nasty for a number of reasons I've already stated - and yes, it does matter, because they're the ones that need to can it. However, there are quite a few on the anti-side that do too. But I'm not going to be an idiot relativist and say for PC's sake that both sides are exactly the same in every conflict situation - because they aren't. Sometimes, one side is worse.
     
  17. Ravenxl7

    Ravenxl7 W.A.F.F.L.E.O.

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2006
    Posts:
    22,052
    News Credits:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    312
    Likes:
    +26
    Fourthed. People are going to argue no matter what. Just like World Peace is impossible, Board Peace is impossible, you just have to make the best of the good conversations that are here.

    BTW, I'm pro-movie, and don't bitch out those who are anti-movie.
     
  18. Cobalt Agent

    Cobalt Agent My dick kills dinosaurs

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2005
    Posts:
    3,669
    Trophy Points:
    207
    Likes:
    +10
    You know what? I pretty much hate the movie designs, and I think you're beginning to sound like a bit of a baby. You're whining over nothing. I agree that the pro-movie fans can be very nasty, but so what? So can I, and I'm "anti-movie." My point was that both sides act nasty and that people should just drop it and get over it. You're not Anne Frank, stop bitching.

    I'm not apathetic. I'll spend my time getting pissed over important things like politics. I'll complain like a dick about the designs that come out because I'm allowed to share my opinion on this internet forum. I'll debate over the flaws with the movie. I won't, however, cry because some big bad pro-movie dorks are trying to poke the plastic bubble I shelter myself in because I lack any ability to back up my claims and beliefs with reasoning. If you do/n't like the designs then say so. If someone disagrees, debate them or move on.

    It's that simple.
     
  19. Magelite

    Magelite I make stupid look good

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2007
    Posts:
    897
    Trophy Points:
    101
    Likes:
    +0
    Fifthed. (seconded technically, to what Raven said.)
     
  20. EagleEyeJoe

    EagleEyeJoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2002
    Posts:
    199
    Trophy Points:
    91
    Likes:
    +0
    Sixthed

    :horse: 

    And here's my honest plea... let's all STFU and talk about some cool stuff.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page