An early warning?

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Altimus Prime, Aug 2, 2011.

  1. Altimus Prime

    Altimus Prime Shift perceptions

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    It seems as the movies have gone on, from the first, to the second, to the third, the complaints about them have only increased and the divisions among the fans have grown wider - there are those who vehemently defend DotM, those who find fault.

    I'm among those who found much fault with DotM. My opinion of the films has gone down with each one.

    I'd hazard to say the first is probably the best received. If anything, I'd say criticism of it would focus on not enough TFs, not enough TF action, which was probably a result of it being the "introduction" movie.

    But was there a sign of problems to come in the first movie? A scene that would lead to stuff like Skids and Mudflap, robotic "testicles," and - culminating in DotM - nearly every human character being off their rocker, childish humor and, worst of all, "Wang."

    I'm referring to a scene in the first movie that as far as I see it could've been and should've been cut. It had no place in the movie, did nothing for the story and would not have been missed in the least.

    Of what do I refer? "Are you eyeing my piece, fiddy cent?"

    That was just one damn awkward scene and completely pointless. As I thought about it, it hit me that perhaps that one scene was a sign of bad things to come. And not only did they come, they were amplified.
     
  2. Mario

    Mario Italian Plumber

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    I honestly thought Bumblebee peeing on Simmons was the warning.
     
  3. Altimus Prime

    Altimus Prime Shift perceptions

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    At least he didn't whip out a tube or hose to do it. ;) 
     
  4. vektsilver

    vektsilver Transorganic member

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    when it spills from the crotch i think the hose would have given them an r rating lol.

    It really doesnt need more than the crotch really lol
     
  5. jon5000

    jon5000 Tea-Drinker

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    I actually thought the 2007 film wasn't at all bad. Don't get me wrong, it was by no means perfect. But it was simple and charming enough to not anger me in the way ROTF and DOTM did. It felt significantly Spielbergian in parts. In a good way. I thought the Autobots hiding from Sam's parents scene was hilarious and brilliantly executed. As was Bumblebee's capture.

    What angers me is Bay's idea of 'upping the ante' in the sequels, but at the cost of any genuine audience identification with the characters. I felt nothing when Ironhide died, sorry!

    I wish a more subtle filmmaker had taken the reigns. I would love to have seen some balance against the action set pieces, with warmer, more intimate human/robot relationships. So we as the audience could engage a bit more. Something akin to the Iron Giant.

    A little bit of heart wouldn't go a miss.
     
  6. Splintershot

    Splintershot Predacon?? ... Awesome

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    This was it.
    Honestly, I can't say I found the police interrogation scene that awkward. Frankly, I found it a little funny. It wasn't very serious (as we all know it would never be) and it wasn't completely stupid (Mudflap, Skids, Deep Wang, Leo, etc. etc.). It had a good fitting.
     
  7. Kostya

    Kostya Destron

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    I completely agree. While I didn't hate the third I thought it fell far short of the first movie. I'm not so sure about the interrogation scene but the peeing probably should have been a warning.

    Another complaint, the subplot with the transmission should have just been completely removed as it didn't really do anything for the film and took even more time from the robots. One thing that I think this time could have been used for is showing more than three Decepticons before the climax begins.

    Really up until Frenzy finds the cube it looks like him, Blackout, Scorponok, and Barricade are the only Decepticons on all of Earth. There may be four but one is really tiny and Bumblebee alone was enough to stop another so they didn't seem all that imposing. I'm not asking for much, just a few scenes of the other cons interacting about finding the cube and maybe giving a little world/character developing exposition. It doesn't even have to be 10 minutes, just something.
     
  8. Altimus Prime

    Altimus Prime Shift perceptions

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    Well said.

    I also didn't really "feel" anything when Ironhide was killed. I was surprised, yes. But that was all. Now, when Bumblebee got caught in the first movie, I had tears in my eyes. There have been no moments like that since.

    Can you imagine a scene like the "Are you the tooth fairy" moment from the first movie anywhere in DotM?

    We're TransFans. We're going to relate to and "connect" to the bots, and understand/appreciate them more than reviewers give credit for. But aside from the Big Names - Prime, Bumblebee, Starscream, Megatron, etc. - I couldn't really tell you the names of others who appeared in the last two movies, or remember anything they did or said, because they just blended in. Wheeljack was in DotM? Really? What/who was "Dino"? I have no idea. They weren't presented well enough for me to notice or connect with them.

    I only saw the movie once, tho.
     
  9. Ephland

    Ephland Let's Go Rangers

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    There are those fans out there who feel as though the problems of the prior movie were addressed with the subsequent movie. TF1 has some absolutely dreadful dialogue and scenes. The dialogue got noticeably better with ROTF (by that, I mean that I don't cringe as much as I did with TF1) and with DOTM, I can't really point to any of it as being out and out awful like the first two movies. I'd say DOTM is the only one of the 3 movies that I'd sit and watch all the way through at home.
     
  10. gambit020480

    gambit020480 Banned

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    Pretty much everything you said is why the movies were horrible. The graphics are cool, but that is all. The problem could have been diminished, if not eliminated if Michael Bay was not involved. That moron could not direct a parade. As sson as I saw his name attached to the film I knew it would suck. He thinks the answer to every story is explosions and slomos of sunsets and helicopters. Probably the most overrated and worthless director ever to hit hollywood.
     
  11. Incepticon

    Incepticon Double Agent

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    For better AND worse, I think the early warning signs were Bay, Bay's past track record of movies, the hiring of Orci & Kurtzman as writers, and Bay's "well, whatever, the fans will get what I give them" attitude right from the beginning. With all those factors combined, I pretty much knew exactly what kind of movies we would get, albeit I fall into the camp who was ultimately disappointed overall with how they turned out despite enjoying certain aspects from each one.

    What I wasn't expecting was ROTF. All of it. DOTM at least followed the theme & mood set by TF1, but ROTF was almost like an entirely different movie franchise that also just happened to have robots in it. It was so far off the mark of everything that I still can't believe it got made and took up a 2 year space of this franchise's 6 year run.
     
  12. Ephland

    Ephland Let's Go Rangers

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    To be fair, you're way off the mark with that.
     
  13. harrismonkey

    harrismonkey Well-Known Member

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    This is why I'm just fine with the possibility of another director. I'm fine with taking the chance of it getting worse. After three films we've seen what Bay can do, and the result has been three frustrating films. They absolutely have their merits, don't get me wrong. But at this point it's safe to say that a 4th Bay film would just be more of the same.
     
  14. Shelbo

    Shelbo Hur hur

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    "Sam's happy time" anyone? I think that is the most aukward, stupid and, useless part of the movie. And it's the humor like that we got in ROTF.
     
  15. Incepticon

    Incepticon Double Agent

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    I know it's somewhat exaggerated, but it's still more or less the distinct impression that many, many, many people got based on the way he addressed the subject matter and the fandom via dozens of interviews. So whether it's technically right or wrong doesn't matter much - it was nevertheless the impression & tone people took away from him. And for all the "listening" he supposedly did, I do think he could have done a bit more. I say that constructively.
     
  16. Ephland

    Ephland Let's Go Rangers

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    You have to remember, though, that the % of people who that sort of thing matters to is a tiny slice of the pie when it comes to "people who watch movies". Is it really fair to criticize a Hollywood director in charge of a huge production for not kowtowing to all of the demands of a microscopic portion of the overall audience?

    Yeah, maybe he was kind of a dick in interviews. Again, the vast majority of the movie-watching public has probably never seen one Michael Bay interview ever. I know if I knew that the only people watching me talk were the same people who constantly bash me on the internet, I'd probably tell them to "fuck off" too.
     
  17. Smasher

    Smasher HUNKY BEATS

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    I just wonder why you each saw these 'warnings' in the first movie and then still watched the other two. :) 
     
  18. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Dry built

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    This. :D 
     
  19. Stormrunner

    Stormrunner Cry for the Cat's Eye

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    I have to say though I love all the massive explosions and fighting (yes I'm a weird woman) - I think them choosing Bay to direct then hiring Spielberg as and after thought when the fan base went ballistic on them is what made the story not as good as it could have been.

    I love the movies don't get me wrong (mostly) there are scenes that still entrap me like the Autobots landing, the garden scene in the first movie with all the mischeif, heck even Bubblebee throwing a fit in ROTF - mostly because it shows no matter how "mature" BB is he is still young in Cybertronian terms - kinda like a 16-18 year old XD.
     
  20. Incepticon

    Incepticon Double Agent

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    Hey man, I never said any such thing. I only pointed out the kind of impression that many people claimed to have gotten from him, and said that I think he could have done well by listening to a few more suggestions, whether they were from the fandom, ILM or his own writers. I've never been one of those "pure G1 or nothing!" guys. I just think Bay could & should have checked his ego a bit more at the beginning rather than being so defensive from day one when taking on this franchise. That's all.

    And yeah the whole "we're a miniscule percentage..." stuff, I know. But let's keep things in context. When there are hundreds or thousands of people on a forum like this that is dedicated solely to our 'beloved' franchise, everyone feeds off each other - both good & bad - and you typically don't worry about how the millions of Joe Somebody's around the world are going to take things, let alone assume they're as in touch with each movie's development as we are. I think that's a fair counterpoint, no?

    As would I, but I would like to think I would have waited to take that standpoint AFTER I saw how well or poorly my first movie was received. Because to be fair, Bay's "fuck you" reaction was to the same miniscule vocal percentage that we're constantly reminded don't mean anything in the grand scheme anyway. It's kind of contradictory and only convenient to one's personal agenda if you ask me.

    Not all of us hated the first movie - we were just disappointed with how it turned out despite knowing Bay's previous movie track record (several of which I REALLY liked). And in order to form a valid opinion of the other two, you have to actually watch them. Personally speaking, I hoped I would like ROTF better since the trailers made me think I would. Then I found out the hard way it was one of the worst movies I've ever seen. Then DOTM gets announced. Again, it looked great and this time it was pitched with claims from the stars & Bay himself that they "made up for ROTF with this one", so obviously I wanted to give them the benefit of teh doubt since I was still hoping to get a kick ass TF movie out this trilogy. And I actually liked it the best out of all three. Doesn't mean I don't still think a lot of things could have been done differently that might have made all three equally enjoyable.

    It's a friggin broken record at this point, but keep in mind that not everyone who has criticisms of these movies absolutely hates Bay, thinks the movies should have been based/stuck in G1 fanwank, thinks there shouldn't have had humans, thinks our childhoods got violated, or thinks they were all complete disasters from start to finish. Sometimes a criticism is just that: a criticism. A lot of pro-movie fans could do well with being less ignorant about the whole thing, taking things so personally and being so instantly defensive & combative. They're as bad as the extreme Bay haters.
     

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