Am I the only one who feels there are double standards going on?

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by kaijuguy19, Apr 3, 2017.

  1. Music

    Music Prime

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    Some of the comments on here are stating they hate Shia's character, but the comments I've seen on the trailers state they want Shia back. The contrast between the what the general public want and what the fans want is quite funny. It's the same thing with Bumblebee.
     
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  2. TFXProtector

    TFXProtector Well-Known Member

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    No. You're speaking for him, which isn't cool. He said he can see why someone would call you a troll based on your behavior. He didn't say he agreed with the people labeling you that, he didn't say you were one.

    Big difference.

    He's not the one who's triggered, especially after looking at your post...
     
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  3. Armour Geist

    Armour Geist Space Pirate

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    The designs and accuracy to the source material in these films is the least of their problems(well, they were until AOE where everyone looked like garbage that couldn't even transform) the problem with them is how awfully boring and lifeless they are, almost every character either gets no line or no real personality, most of the focus is on the humans, who are extremely annoying past the first movie, the action is not very interesting. alot of the designs past the first movie were extremely uninspired, ROTF and DOTM still had some stand out stuff, but AOE honestly still has the worst transformers designs ever made, none of them even look like Transformers in the slightest, they have no kibble, or anything that would hint at the fact they're supposed to be able to turn into a vehicle.
    even if these movies were with the original 1980's designs it wouldn't save them, maybe it'd get the love of the 30 year old nostalgic man-children, but they have much bigger problems then just the things this "fandom" seems to bitch about constantly.
     
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  4. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

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    Long running franchises with different versions of the same character do make it a tough needle to thread. While I like the voice actor for G1 Bumblebee I just happen to like the Animated version of Bumblebee better. So if the movies went all full on G1 all of a sudden it would be eh not my favorite version of Bumblebee. Just really hard to give everyone their definitive version of each Transformers character when we are not the Borg Collective so we all have our own ideas about which version is the definitive version.

    And sometimes characters just need modifications to match the times. GI Joe a Real American Hero having Roadblock rhyme all the time was okay because the 80's were weird as hell. Having The Rock play Roadblock exactly like the character was in the 80's would just seem bizarre by modern standards.
     
  5. Livingdeaddan

    Livingdeaddan Gotta get to sleep somehow...

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    It seems alot of people that like these movies a lot, or at least like to come here to argue in defence of them (not necessarily the same thing,) think that people hate them simply because "not G1." It's their special card that they think can win any argument.

    But it doesn't.

    We might have wanted a more G1 centric movie initially circa 1984-2007, but no one (or very few) said it has to be G1 to be good. It just has to be "good." And that's where the movies struggle.

    Transformers movies are not what at lot of us hoped for, but their real failure was that they never proved us wrong. Sure they look pretty and they've done wonders for the brand's overall longevity and i'll admit to a renewed patience of them (largely due to being able to watch "Transformers" in the cinema with my own son) but they never turned alot of us around in the way Beast Wars or Animated did. And that's because of the reasons, the 1000's of reasons, stated a hundred billion times and summarised in Armour's post here.
     
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  6. Timothy.R

    Timothy.R Well-Known Member

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    Because this is a major motion picture.. this is it. This isn't another cartoon that's going to end in 3 seasons with another one popping up not too long after that.

    It's not a double standard. This is what is biggest in the public eye, G1 should have a bit more to do with it.

    Marvel didn't change tony stark's name.. he's still red and gold.. black panther is still black, the winter soldier has a robotic arm, superman is blue and red, groot is a tree, rocket is a raccoon, wolverine's name is Logan and he has claws.. ironhide is a black pickup truck.

    Which of those seems out of place?

    People aren't asking for exact replresentations.. but modern representations would've been good.

    Have ironhide be red, give him a voice and face that closer resembles the ironhide we grew up with, not one that looks like a bovine.

    Give starscream his back wings..

    Let sideswipe be a red Lamborghini.

    Don't let drift be a caricature of a samurai.

    Let soundwave be a communications vehicle of some kind (then satellite idea was actually pretty good)

    Give hot rod his flames, his back spoiler in robot mode, and forearm exhausts.

    Let ratchet be a white ambulance.

    If you're going to do a wheeljack, do it right, call him wheeljack, and don't make him look like a goofy robotic Einstein.

    Dinobots.. they couldn't let grimlock be the king predator dinobot.. scorn was necessary? With 3 sets of spines? They couldn't have given us swoop? They had to go with a 2 headed strafe? They couldn't have had a little gold and red throughout?

    Shockwave had to be nothing? He drove some weird drill?

    They couldn't have done a proper devastator? One that stood upright? One that was used for more than removing the top of a pyramid? One that wasn't destroyed by humans?

    The fallen couldn't have been a brute? A robot that actually looked like a threat? He had to be a spindly monster that didn't transform?

    Jetfire had to look like an old man? These are robots right? Did he look like an old bearded robot when he was young?

    Hound had to be a fat one-lining moron?.. he couldn't have been a military jeep?

    Galvatron couldn't have an arm cannon and needed a big hole in his chest?

    On a side note, they love reusing renders, but won't use them when they'd actually make sense.

    You may say that some of the changes were cool, but they couldn't have homaged the original without looking cool? I beg to differ.

    A lot of it just seems like nameslaps. And that's really annoying.

    I love seeing the different iterations of characters throughout the years. But it's one thing to change up the design a bit to fit the style and another to change everything making it unidentifiable as the character whose name they've used for it.

    I think some of them have been done right. Like prime, I don't hate the flames, and it's pretty obvious that it's prime. Why he needed a mouth is beyond me considering bumblebee not only doesn't have a mouth but hasn't had a voice for 4 movies. Jazz wasn't bad, bumblebees design isn't bad, and lockdown worked.

    But hey all of that is moot considering these robots aren't even the stars of their own movies. These movies have been more about sams lovelife, or his destiny, or wahlberg and his kid, or now more humans who are somehow important to the robots. It's never about the robots being important to the story. We see more humans fighting and robot fighting in the background than there should be.

    In BVS the story followed Louis Lane a little bit, but it primarily followed Bruce and Clark.

    If marvel went by the transformers formula, we'd see how Pepper Potts is the connection to everything, and follow what she's doing more than tony.

    Lastly, a little off-topic. It's a bit annoying that megatron, starscream, devastator, and blackout were killed by humans. And shockwave and lockdown were both killed with the major help of humans.

    Ugh. It's just frustrating I see all of these movies that homage the source material well and are generally well liked, but we're stuck with movies that have set the low bar.

    It's also frustrating because bay is supposed to be great at action, but as I said before, a lot of the action has blurry robots or robots fighting in the background constantly cutting to see what the humans are doing. I mean, imagine all of the cool stuff bay could've filled these movies with, scenes like the forest battle, or when prime fights bonecrusher. The very first robot vs robot fight lasted like 4 seconds and was cutaway to follow Sam and frenzy!.. that's indefensible.

    I should add that I don't just hate bay and that's that. I've enjoyed some of his other movies. But he's dropped the ball big time with these movies.
     
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  7. kaijuguy19

    kaijuguy19 Keyblade Wielder

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    See now had the complaints be mostly about that I would completely understand but that isn't what I was seeing at least on this site. Also not every movie fan thinks people dislike the movies because it's not G1. Like I've said a lot of times I know people have different reasons for liking or dislike either the movies,G1 or really any other TF series but what I'm mostly talking about is how some fans seem to bash the movies for not paying attention to whatever source material the TF brand has yet when other TF series do the same they get a free pass.

    I'm sorry but what you've posted here is exactly what I was talking about in this thread because even the MCU isn't afraid to take some drastic changes with it's characters every now and then either. For example characters like Zemo,and Whiplash are nothing like their comic versions and there's also the fact that the MCU takes it's sources from it's other comic imprints like the Ultimate comics as well as adding new twists and things to it and not be fully beholden to the original Marvel comic universe. So if we're going to give the MCU a pass on that then why can't the TF movies? It just screams hypocrisy to me. Besides even if they decide to go for a more G1 route there's no guarantee that people are automatically going to love it especially if they went about it the wrong way or if they take from different takes of G1 like Marvle,Sunbow or IDW that not everyone's going to be on board due to different tastes and opinions.

    As for your thoughts on the human and TF screentime? humans have played a role in a lot of tF series one way or another and I think you might be underestimating on how important the robot characters roles are especially for the TLK from the looks of it.
     
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  8. electronic456

    electronic456 擎天柱

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    I mean the 1989 Batman film had focus on Vicki Vale.

    And to address a couple of the design complaints....

    [​IMG] Too late for Ironhide....

    Wheeljack looks like Einstein? At least the two hairs on both sides look like the light bulbs unlike the Wheeljack in Armada.

    Starscream's back wings? I thought he had wings on his back....

    Drift is a samurai caricature? I mean was there something to his character I did not pick up on back then?

    Sideswipe being red is one thing that would instill nostalgia. So you could ask for it but it's just a paint job.

    Ratchet being a white ambulance? I mean didn't DOTM give him a white paintjob? Oh wait... You wanted red too?

    Why is Soundwave listed if you said the satellite mode is cool?

    The Fallen's design was cool... I like the idea of how the Decepticon symbol came to be.

    Sorry, Jetfire was a different character for me growing up... Plus he's the one robot who goes through a lot of change through a lot of change in various iterations. I guess him being a Russian twin is a bother for you as well.

    Hound? I mean were you expecting 'Bulkhead'? Bulkhead could have been Hound before we identified a big green Autobot as Bulkhead.


    Overall some of these complaints are just not worthy for complaining about especially since this is a franchise which readily embraces change a lot more than others. Meaning I can expect potentially interesting turns as it goes.

    Part of the fun with the movie designs is reading into the detail that goes into them and finally picking up as many of the possible references there are to their design or character. It's different when looking at something from the MCU or so in general where I see Iron Man and just go... "That's Iron Man." When Marvel does something for characters like Armin Zola, I go... "Oh cool... There is a bit of that original design going on."
     
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  9. Livingdeaddan

    Livingdeaddan Gotta get to sleep somehow...

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    But I think they are mostly like that. G1 is valuable source for comparison, especially when you're not getting what you think the franchise deserves in the current incarnation, but people know not to expect a carbon copy, Now I realise Tim's post here..
    .. slightly undermines my point, but he's just one fan, and tbh what I really see here is not a desire to see a live action G1, but to see a movie that respects the characters identities (tropes if you like) that exist throughout the transformers "multiverse." This is something the MCU has done very well, with the heroes at least, so it's easy to see why they always come up in these threads.

    I agree with some of these points, not with others. Colour is important, but i don't know if a transformers colour scheme is really as iconic as a Marvel heroes costume? I guess some of us would like it to be. It would certainly be odd to see a pink and orange Optimus Prime.
    No I know, there's a lot of movie fans i respect and enjoy banter with here, but a few will constantly attack valid criticism by calling "geewunner" out whenever they can.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2017
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  10. Armour Geist

    Armour Geist Space Pirate

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    Shut up Geewunner, why can't you just enjoy these movies!! they're keeping the franchise alive and that makes em good!
     
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  11. Livingdeaddan

    Livingdeaddan Gotta get to sleep somehow...

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    boy you told me! :lol 
     
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  12. Toolala

    Toolala Breast Master

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    there are no double standards, you're seeing things.
     
  13. Nephilim

    Nephilim Well-Known Member

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    Dude these are Live-Action movies of our beloved franchise, of course people are gonna have more standards than a new cartoon or comic. The Live-Action series are the face of the brand for the casuals and people all over the world so it's definitely way more important than if a new cartoon's released.
     
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  14. Armour Geist

    Armour Geist Space Pirate

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    Agreed. higher attention and budget means higher standards.
     
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  15. John TheDestroyer

    John TheDestroyer I rise, you fall

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    Everyone should just let this thread die.

    Those who hate the movies will always hate the movies, and those who don't hate them never will.

    This thread is simply bait for arguments.
     
  16. Livingdeaddan

    Livingdeaddan Gotta get to sleep somehow...

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    Well, you're the only who's been in here today! :lol 
     
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  17. John TheDestroyer

    John TheDestroyer I rise, you fall

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    Last one was only a few hours ago, though.
     
  18. Livingdeaddan

    Livingdeaddan Gotta get to sleep somehow...

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    Ahh, maybe it's the time difference, it says yesterday at 10:45PM that's 24hrs ago for me! :D  apologies! (it was just a gag anyway!;) )
     
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  19. John TheDestroyer

    John TheDestroyer I rise, you fall

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    Oh, you're right! :lol  I got the am/pm mixed up, I thought it was just 12 hours ago.
     
  20. Livingdeaddan

    Livingdeaddan Gotta get to sleep somehow...

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    Maaan! Way to keep the thread rolling! :lol 
     
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