Alternative Ponderings on the 'Killing Off Characters' Subject

Discussion in 'Transformers Robots In Disguise / Prime Discussion' started by Nachtsider, Sep 6, 2011.

  1. Nachtsider

    Nachtsider Banned

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    Posted similar questions in another thread, but thought they deserved a thread of their own.

    1. Suppose. SUPPOSE for the sake of argument that the creators did the unthinkable and killed off one or both of the two kids people here seem to hate so much (Raf and Miko). Would you object, and why?

    2. Suppose. SUPPOSE for the sake of argument that the decision to kill them off was in your hands. What might possibly make you refrain from doing so?

    Discuss.

    In before "HURR DURR THEY WON'T EVER KILL OFF KID CHARACTERSS IN A KIDS SHOW UR THREAD IS DUMB". Seriously, fuck that noise. We're talking hypotheticals here.
     
  2. seekerblackout

    seekerblackout Banned

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    1. I'd be shocked,I don't know what I'd think
    2. I'd stop them because even if I don't like them(Miko),I don't think they should be KILLED. They are just kids in a kids show
     
  3. NCStarscream

    NCStarscream Me Grimlock cute

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    1. I not only wouldn't object, I'd welcome it.

    2. The only thing that would make me refrain from killing off either one of them is that I enjoy a lot of the banter between Raf and Ratchet. Miko's pretty much worthless as far as I'm concerned. She seems to exist only to give the Autobots something to protect/get distracted from their goals by, which is a role that can easily be filled via other storytelling means. And there's plenty of stuff for Ratchet to complain about besides Raf. So I say slag 'em both.
     
  4. Luka63

    Luka63 Lukabot

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    Though we've not seen much of him, I've actually grown rather fond of Raf. I'm looking forward a lot to seeing the apparent arc centering around him and 'bee in Season 2. In One Shall Rise, I couldn't help but worry for him after he took that dark energon hit. Watching his hand fall down in the mirror.. Undeniably a powerful scene..

    Miko, for the most part I really couldn't care less for right now. In my opinion she's had her chance to make her character bearable, continuity and character development were thrown out the window, and any changes regarding her lack of maturity - or even just common sense - from this point on would be forced and shoe-horned in under the demand of fans.

    That said.. I don't exactly want her to die. Sure, I've made the odd, occasional joke in the past, but I wouldn't for one moment seriously want that to happen. Personally, I'd be content with them just shipping her off home to Japan.


    If it were up to me... I would say no to killing them because ultimately, I don't think it would serve the plot very well. I mean, in some ways yes - it would be interesting to see the changes and handlings of grief/guilt/etc in 'bee and Bulkhead, for example, if they were to lose their partners - but in the long run, it would bring about more negatives than positives. Not just in the sense of public backlash "oh my god you killed kids in a tv show", but in that... as much as I hate to admit it, the show would feel rather empty without them. Sure you could bring in new humans.. but..

    I'm starting to worry I'm not making much sense here. Let's try to put it in a more simple manner. Raf, I feel can provide a lot for the show; killing him off would be a silly move. Miko.. Annoying as she is, she doesn't deserve that kind of fate. Not to say that anyone does, but hopefully you catch my meaning.

    One thing that would interest me however - in a strictly alternate universe, mind - would be the death of Jack. Granted, he's my favourite human out of the lot, but I can't deny how intrigued I'd be to see Arcee's reaction to losing another partner. Morbid curiosity, I suppose.
     
  5. IceMagnus

    IceMagnus STARCO FTW!!!!!

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    It is a KIDS show. Why would they endanger kids? I know Miko may be annoying at times but hey cut her some slack, she is just like a normal teenage girl and I should know I'm her age (15). With Rafael, he is like the Chip Chase of this centry, so why kill him?
     
  6. Xaddion

    Xaddion ...

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    Time to find out...
     
  7. IceMagnus

    IceMagnus STARCO FTW!!!!!

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    Five stars for the Optimus Prime quote. :D 
     
  8. rxlthunder

    rxlthunder Banned

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    1. I would object since even though Miko and apparently Raf are annoying, they can be used for major storylines down the road.

    2. Same reasons as above.
     
  9. Luka63

    Luka63 Lukabot

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    Please don't tell me you're about to decapitate them & pull out their spine, leaving the axe embedded in their skull? Please? Can we go with the novel's version on this one?
     
  10. bio9205

    bio9205 Knocked Out

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    Who says it has to be the kids? Why not Fowler, or even June Darby?

    I'd welcome it. Having a character death would bring depth to the show - showing how the other characters adapt to it, etc.
     
  11. Oberoniss

    Oberoniss DOESN'T-EXIST BABBU

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    1. I would object to Raf being killed, seeing as how he's my favorite human in the show. Miko, not so much, although I wouldn't cheer either.

    2. I would totally bork Miko given the chance to do it in a way that would not be narmy, and would be on-screen. Not for her death, but for the drama it would bring.
     
  12. Una

    Una Well-Known Member

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    1. Killing children off is really, really something people never do. If the writers did that, I would be so shocked.

    2. I will be squeamish to kill them off. XD I will get too attached to them to kill them off.

    Especially Raf :cry 

    Also, we already saw how Optimus and others reacted to one of the humans being close to death and if they killed a human off, the person who did it would be torned apart by the Autobots.
     
  13. Transformed

    Transformed 神戸 Member

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    I would be very, very against it. Children don't cope with death well. The first time I had to deal with death was when my first dog died. I was so broken up inside that I nearly needed therapy. I serious attachment issues for months if not a few years after that.

    I don’t know if a child would feel the same way over a cartoon character, but didn’t Optimus’ death way back when cause similar issues for children around the US in the ‘80s?

    Besides, this show is supposed to be entertainment. Why would anyone want to set parents up for a talk they aren’t yet ready to have with their child(ren)? I can think of no better way than to kill a toy’s sales and life on store shelves than by introducing a parent’s unsuspecting child to death.
     
  14. Nachtsider

    Nachtsider Banned

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    Been reading the responses thus far with much interest.

    Public outrage seems to be the primary concern of most dissenting posters. Which is, I suppose, understandable from a purely PR standpoint. But the dissenting reasons BEYOND public outrage are what intrigue me the most.

    To date, people from that category feel that these characters don't deserve death. "They're just kids!" is a popular retort. Well, perhaps they don't, yes. But the fact remains that the subject of the story is a conflict, a war, and the bloodthirsty beast of war consumes many innocent, undeserving victims, kids included.

    Take a step back and ponder, those of you with the "They're just kids!" sentiment. Would you similarly object to say, Miko being killed off if she WASN'T a kid? I think whether or not a character deserves to be removed should be judged on their merits as a character or the lack of them, and not their age.

    This begs another question. How many kids can honestly say they harbor that deep an attachment to Miko or Raf? I'm thinking it won't be very many.

    Never understood this logic. It's deeply flawed, IMO.

    I cannot envision such a move hurting toy sales at all. The characters we're talking about don't even have any toy representations. Hell, even if a character with a toy representation was killed off, I cannot understand how that could hurt the sales of their toys. A character's death does not undermine their popularity. They will live on in the minds of their fans, and it's not like the manufacturer will discontinue their toys with their demise.

    Case in point. How long ago was it when Darth Vader got killed off in Return of the Jedi? And yet, Darth Vader merchandise continues to sell like hotcakes.
     
  15. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP AKA Beve Stuscemi

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    Yes. Because it's (for lack of a better term) overkill and would make the show needlessly dark and totally nonsensical.

    The fact that it would be pointless since if I wanted them gone I'd just have Raf go to a special school or something for the above-average intelligence where he becomes sucsessful in computers and send Miko back to Tokyo where she reuinites with her parents.

    I'm gonna go out on a limb here and take a wild guess and say you're referencing DOTM. (very melodramatically) In which case I'll just say Megatron would never agree to peace. Not sincerely, and not for good. He'll always be a rotten jerk and killing him was the best thing Optimus has ever done.
     
  16. shroobmaster

    shroobmaster Well-Known Member

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    I already said why I don't want kids getting killed in a show before so I'll just say that if I had to remove them from the show I would send Miko back to her parents and Raf would stop showing up due to trying to engage with his family and real, human friends better. Miko's case in special could end up being a pretty cool good bye episode.
     
  17. Cevel

    Cevel Well-Known Member

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    In reality, war does consume innocent lives...the key part being "in reality".

    Look, I know this show is about a war between two factions of alien robots. But the thing is, this is also a cartoon produced mainly for kids. There are just some things that can't be done on a cartoon with a Y7 rating. TF: P has pushed some limits, yes, but I doubt that this is a line that they'll ever cross.

    If you want a constant pointless GRIMDARK HUMAN DEATH BLOODY KILLSPREE then I suggest you read something like All Hail Megatron. Don't expect that sort of thing from a cartoon.

    That's what killing any of the kids off now would be: A pointless death done just to be hardcore. Cliffjumper died in order to set the tone of the series and show that any of the Transformer characters could die. Skyquake died, and the writers have told us that his death will have ramifications in the future. Makeshift was killed off because while he made an interesting episode possible, he was too overpowered to keep around on the show.

    The death of any of the kids? The threat of one of the kids dying (Miko slowly running out of air in "Rock Bottom" and Raf nearly dying from energon exposure in "One Shall Fall") has already given us all the insight to how their guardians and the rest of the Autobots would react if they had died. To actually kill them off at this point wouldn't bring any new revelations with it, and would just give us yet another character with PTSD about a partner dying, like we've already had with Arcee. It would just be recycling old ground.

    In the end, Miko or Raf's death would only accomplish getting rid of characters that some people around here find annoying, and that's not a good enough reason to kill off a character in my book. I'd rather have characters develop than be wasted just because some fanboys/fangirls hate them.

    Uh...
     
  18. Transformed

    Transformed 神戸 Member

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    Very true, but a large amount of people if not a majority believe that kids should be left OUT of war, and those in the US (elsewhere too perhaps) still feel that woman shouldn’t be allowed to see combat either.

    War’s never pretty. Hollywood and the like have sensationalized it, and we’ve become desensitized by it. How often have we seen a character beat impossible odds? How often have we seen a single character survive these impossible odds unscathed? Hollywood has made many of us forget about the nasty side of war.

    G.I. Joe is a cartoon/toy line I never really understood. I myself liked G.I. Joe, possibly because I grew up on military bases, but I think G.I. Joe suffered (maybe suffers still) for not wanting to go all in, but doing so would limit their market for sure—how many parents would feel comfortable with their children watching gory bloodbath after gory blood bath? I wouldn’t let my kids watch it—though I’d probably watch it until I had had enough. I was always at odd with the cartoon and the story in Marvel Comics. Marvel Comics gave me what I expected from war, death and hard choice, but it killed off the characters I grew to like. The cartoon, allowed me to see my favorites whenever I wanted, but never really put them in any real danger.

    When you think about it, G.I. Joe cartoons of old were very much like the rooftop shootout in the second Naked Gun movie—everyone missing their target a point blank range. I don’t have any figures on this brands sales, but I wouldn’t be too surprised if G.I. Joe sales the fewest toys in Hasbro’s assortment of goodies, but I digress (f^_^ ; )
    She’d still be a woman, something I still feel society doesn’t want to see placed in the middle of war.

    If she were an adult, what would her role be? Would she still be the same Miko? Whatever the case, killing Miko just because fans or the general public doesn’t like her is crazy—why not just have her go back home country? I’m against killing anything or anyone in stories just for the sake of killing or to please fans. A writer should be able to tell the story he/she wants to tell without pressure of studios or fans forcing his/her hand.

    I don’t know, but I know my daughter likes her. She often asks about Miko’s whereabouts in episodes she doesn’t appear in. My daughter likes female characters, but why shouldn’t she?


    That’s your opinion, and you’re welcome to it.
    [qutoe]I cannot envision such a move hurting toy sales at all. The characters we're talking about don't even have any toy representations.[/quote]but they will:
    [​IMG]
    My kids asked for these when these pictures first surfaced on the net.
    I had a hard time finding Optimus Prime after his death in the animated movie. All I could find were the toys Hasbro was making from that point on, which was Rodimus and his new buds/foes.
    [qutoe]Case in point. How long ago was it when Darth Vader got killed off in Return of the Jedi? And yet, Darth Vader merchandise continues to sell like hotcakes.[/QUOTE]Darth Vader was a villain, not many people sympathize with the likes of them. Imagine what might have happened had Lucas killed off Luke or Leia.

    Do you have statistics that prove Darth Vader moves the most merchandise, then or now? I recall Bobba Fett and Stormtroopers being the harder ones to find in stores, but that’s just my experience, well my parents’ anyway. My friends and I, like many folks today, wanted to build an army, and you only needed on Darth Vader.

    Sure we thought Vader was cool, but we were all over Bobba Fett’s design like many still are today. Darth Vader though a very strong character on screen, was a rather boring toy—black from head to toe with few red, white and blue highlights. Bobba Fett, on the other hand, had all sorts of gadgets, colors and past shrouded in mystery—he was a freaking bounty hunter (I didn’t know what that meant back then, but it didn’t matter because he was just cool)!

    You also have to take into account that Star Wars has been around for 34 years; its sales are massive. Sure kids buy the toys, but so do a lot of big kids, both big boys and big girls.

    Still, I feel Star Wars follows the formula of old: the hero cannot die no matter the odds, and personally, I don’t think it’s fair to compare Star Wars sales with Transformers: Prime or the entire history of Transformers for that matter. But if you have figures that say otherwise, please feel free to share.
     
  19. StarYoshi14

    StarYoshi14 Well-Known Member

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    You can't bring the humans back from the dead as a new toy.
     
  20. Epsilon

    Epsilon Autobot Archivist

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    If I may, while so many have already vocalized such well reasoned and equally valid arguments thus far (it is IMO true that war inescapably effects us all, be it man, woman OR child), I would like to abstract this a bit further. That is to say, I would like to ponder upon the larger question of what would people's responses be or the ramifications be of killing off a human character in this show at all? And I don't mean any of the causalities we've already seen within MECH's forces--though it is significant simply because it demonstrates the boundaries the writers are comfortable pushing the show to--but I'm talking about any of the main cast of humans (not exclusively the kids). I know there are not many other human characters, but earlier on this thread someone did pose the question of what it would be like if the writers killed off not Miko or Raf, or even Jack for that matter, but rather another human character like June or Fowler.

    Repeatedly, many have stressed the importance of having human characters in a show like this, mostly to provide the direct link that the viewers (be they children or children at heart ;)  ) can connect to. It is, after all easier to connect with other human characters on a show than it is giant alien robots from space (no matter how awesome said alien robots from space may be or how humanized writers may attempt to make them). So if the writers decided at all to kill off any human characters (be they children or not) I think it would be a very dramatic (perhaps detrimentally so) step in the wrong direction. To do so would be to destroy and effectively erode a means through which the viewer can connect to the show. Not to mention in doing so would redefine TFP's "dark overtones" in entirely new and overtly morbid ways.

    BUT

    To rein my tangent in, IF I were to answer the question posed it wouldn't be to eliminate either Miko or Raf. If the question is which HUMAN character to kill off (over looking the entire quandry of IF the writers would dare to do such a thing or the debate of IF they should or should not) my vote would be either June or Fowler. June because it would/ could push Jack's character in new and interesting ways. We've seen his loyalty to the Autobots wavier once, what would her death do to him? Would he blame the Decepticons and commit wholly to the Autobots or would he become embittered and hold the Autobots just as responsible as the Decepticons? Its an interesting what if IMO. As for Fowler, it wouldn't be entirely plot sensible as he does serve a clear, well defined purpose BUT his death might achieve the level of gravity that this question (do we kill Miko or Raf?) seemed to be interested in in the first place.

    Just my :2c:  :thumbs2:  Thoughts anyone?
     

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