Some weird idea popped into my head regarding AOE.

During the opening where the Creators were bombing Earth. The land was green.



When Quintessa took over Cybertron. There was green landscape also.

As a Creator, does this mean that plants are essential to giving birth to Transformers?

Feels to me, that TLK made more of a connection with grass than it did with Knights.

 

Interesting observation. If you watch AoE, the Creators were not just passively turning dinosaurs into Transformium; on the contrary, the presence of organic life seems to be essential in the creation of Transformium.

The point being organic life and robotic life are connected in the universe. The presence of one is necessary for the other. Our planet itself is a Transformer. It's a continuum, a cycle, and a balance. The presence of grass on Cybertron indicates organic life is a foundation for Cybertronians.

The Creators decimated organic life forms on thousands of worlds to create mechanical beings that were built as slaves. Perhaps the former represent the chaotic aspects of life and the latter life's orderly attributes. Furthermore, terrestrial planets (Earth, and consequently Unicron) represent chaos with their comparatively chaotic geology and means by which their organisms reproduce. Cybertron and other mechanical worlds represent order, and perhaps the Creators represent the balance between the two rather one or the other. Due to the wars of Cybertronians and destruction of Cybertron due to their mingling in Earth's affairs, perhaps the balance has tipped toward chaos, and Lockdown said that the Creators didn't like how the interactions of species upset the cosmic balance. In my theory that balance is between chaos and order, organic life and mechanical beings.

Perhaps 65 million years ago the balance in the universe was toward chaos with thriving dynasties of organic life, including Earth's dinosaurs, pterosaurs, marine reptiles, etc., on thousands of worlds in constant geologic upheavals. The Creators' destruction of such worlds and following creation of mechanical beings helped balance the scales between organic and mechanical beings. In the present day, the Autobot-Decepticon war and its effects on Cybertron and other worlds means the universe is now in chaos. Time to tip the scales back toward the central balance.

 

cant forget the dinobot charge...personally, i loved optimus pleading/threatening grimlock & just really going all savage during the charge..it's actually really good! lots of emotion from prime here

 

The thing about AoE is that it takes the weakness of following DotM and the others and turns it into its strength. The stories of Sam and company had run their course. Many Autobots and all but a few secretly surviving Decepticons were dead. It takes the movies into a new age and a universe that's bigger in scale than before while also being more intimate. Might as well go with new casts and new concepts and factions. Furthermore, the few returning robots were, for the most part, not the same as they were before. If you ask me, the fourth film was what a fourth film should be.

Additionally, I don't think most critics, Shia or Ironhide or Sideswipe fanboys and fangirls, or most people who ripped apart the movies to begin with were ever going to give this film this chance. This film had a lot more going against it than the previous three...and it succeeded.

 

Can we also mention how badass Battle Cry was?

 

Oooooo!!! I adore it!  It's so mighty, emotional, sincere, visceral song, it has the same unforgettable atmosphere of fear and trust, inexplicable heroism... And so pure, full of enlightened sadness scene of farewell... It is as desperate and heartfelt as AOE itself... Staaaars... they are invisible in daaaarkness...

 

One more thing, according to PhantomStrider this is his worst live-action cartoon movie. Forget about Cinemasins and stuff, he needs this thread the most.  

If he could get these points then it be interesting.

I guess my main problem with AOE overall are these things:

1. The CGI. It really feels different. I thought DOTM brought the visuals to the best level but I kind of wish AOE didn't have that extreme glossy look to it.

2. Editing. With 2 hours and 45 minutes, there was stuff that should of been shaved off to make an easier sit through.

3. Explaining the lore. As much as Bay is a technical master, his weakness with the series has been expanding his universe. A different director might have been able to address the confusion between the Allspark and the Creators more clearly.

Had these problems not bother me, I think this movie could be a favorite Transformer movie of mine.

 

I like AOE too. DOTM is my favourite, followed by TF1, but then it's AOE. Honestly, I would rate all three of those about the same score. Is it perfect? No. But I like the new characters (except Shane who I nothing), I LOVE Lockdown in this, more so than his animated counterpart, and Mark Ryan is a great guy to chat too about his role, we got Dinobots kicking arse, we got Prime being tested and pushed to his darkest place, but he came out of it, we have Whalberg giving Cade a charm that made him likeable, which unfortunatly wasn't there in TLK, and TJ Miller was enjoyable too. First time I was actually enjoying the 'comic relief' character, was genuinely sorry to see him leave the film so early. And I love those designs for Galvatron and Optimus. And the track called 'Tessa' was a beautiful piece.

I don't like the LEGO transforming though. That took it a bit too far for me. I remember when I went to see it in the cinema, there was this little kid (probably about 8) sat about three seats to my right with his dad, and when the Autobots were reuniting and Bee transformed for the first time, the kid let out a loud gasp and went "Yey! It's Bumblebee!" Made me smile.

 

Funny enough, there were some things other fans complained about that I am fine with or even liked. I'm fine with the length of the movie, as I prefer longer movies, and I like films to have some breathing room, but I can understand fans who like shorter films. I thought the CGI was fine and just as good as its predecessors. I wouldn't expect the robots and CGI creatures to look the same, as the brand new, shiny KSI Decepticons and new Autobot designs and cyborg Steeljaws and cartoon-eyed Stupid Drones were not like the Autobot designs and grey, metal shard Cons of the first three films. The difference is about what I would expect for robots with brand new design aesthetics. Imagine if the films had suddenly adopted a more G1 look or something else entirely; the difference in appearance would have looked very off to most viewers and certainly much more off than anything that fans complained about. And I have always loved and still love Transformium, including the cube transformations. It visually distinguished the man-made Transformers from Cybertronians, and I don't see humans programming the complex transformations of Cybertronians in this continuity.

Shane's character wasn't good, there isn't much to Sophia Myles' and Li Bingbing's charactera, and certain scenes could have been edited better, but overall as a live action Bay Transformers film I really love it, and I think it gets much, much, much more right than it gets wrong.

Unpopular opinions, perhaps, but this thread would not exist if threads were posted based on popularity of thread ideas.

 

Oh sophia myles. One of my favourite actresses. I keep forgetting she's in this. I do feel she was wasted, but i liked what we did get of her.

 

Agreed with almost everything. I only don't think that Shane wasn't good, or Joshua's girlfriends were wasted. Not everyone in this world is courageous, Shane is just ordinary guy, he got in this story accidentally, like Leo or Bruce Brathos. You also can't pay much attention to those ladies to not distract the viewers. But without them the Movie would be not completed. I like the scenes with Su Yuming asking Joshua to investigate Galvatron better and he agrees, that his mechanical slave is not perfect. I also appreciate the scene when Darcy meets Cade in front of... Ratchet being molten... There is some subtle sound of compassion in her voice... The both ladies are more wise than Joshua, they are at least not so arrogant and impudent.

I'm really sick of people pouring the shit on Movies without actual causes. I also don't see any problems with the length of the Movie (I enjoyed this added 15 minutes a lot!), don't see any problems with visuals, they are majestic as always! Animation is just unspeakably perfect, it's on the new level comparing with other Movies, because of natural Dinobots (and Autobots riding them) movement, super-agile Lockdown, his dogs, Crosshair's trench-coat, etc. Facial expressions of Autobots are just unforgettable, they are so emotional!

I also enjoy their new robot mode style, although before the Movie I was quite skeptic about that. Their new forms are quite logic - they are more agile, more adapted to human world, more self-expressive. Autobots evolve in our world, they intuitively merge with it, saving their differences in culture at the same time, and I appreciate it! Transformium, Creators and human-made TFs are also very logic and natural development. All these additions to the lore filled the gaps very nice, unlike TF5, which introduced not needed Unicron just to please the old-school fans.

Honestly, sometimes I avoid to say that I'm TF fan, because many people immediately think, that I hate the Movies, since fans are known as eternally complaining about them. And it's a shame, that so many people can't open their minds, throw away stereotypes and just enjoy so good, beautiful, unusual, deep Movie!

 

Keep in mind I'm not complaining about their presence. I also like the scenes Darci appears in, especially the Ratchet scene and the dinosaur stuff, and Li Bingbing actually is pretty badass. At the same time, they're far from the most interesting characters in the film.

Shane I thought was a poorly executed character, BUT for all of his flaws I realize he's nowhere near as annoying as the NASA guy in TLK. He works as tension for Cade but not as a character I'd say. He's kind of just there most of the time, which arguably isn't a detriment to the movie itself, as his presence doesn't really diminish the other characters, and we actually get some funny insults from Cade and even Bee as a result.

 

You have made some very good points,well planned and thought out, but I still rate Age of Extinction the lowest.

 

AoE, like all the movies, has some really good ideas that are buried underneath a lot of unnecessary crap.

-Creators using organic matter to make cybermatter? Cool, that reminds me of G1.

-Optimus going into hiding as a result of the fallout from Chicago? Awesome, it makes it into robots in disguise again! Perfect!

-Someone sending Lockdown to find Prime and bring him back to serve them again? Sweet. Lockdown is awesome and a really refreshing change from the other villains.

-Dinobots as crazy ancient knights? Hell yeah. I love the knight theme design-wise.

-Humans attempting to make their own transformers? Yes please. Great idea to keep humans relevant (since that has to happen anyway)!

-Optimus getting to the brink of losing faith in the human race, then meeting someone who brings him back? Totally on board. Giving Optimus a character arc is something that rarely happens, since he's often seen as simply "heroic" or "stoic" or both.

However! See below:

Good point. LOOK HOW MANY STORYLINES I LISTED ABOVE. That's just too many stories for ANY of them to be properly executed. And what did they do with the next one? Shove in MORE storylines for TLK. It's such a problem and it's just gotten worse and worse with every movie (with the exception of DotM which was a little more focused).

Now allow me to quote my own post here and respond:

-Creators using organic matter to make cybermatter? Too bad that's barely explored, and they waste it on faking us out with the dinosaurs in the beginning, which don't even connect to the dinobots. Not to mention the creators are barely mentioned and not paid off in TLK

-Optimus going into hiding as a result of the fallout from Chicago and sending a message to the other autobots to hide as well? Works really well, then doesn't matter anymore once Optimus gets a new form. They don't even try to hide anymore!

-Someone sending Lockdown to find Prime and bring him back to serve them again? The best and most well-executed storyline in the movie. Lockdown is a great villain, but also he can't kill any human but TJ Miller?

-Dinobots as crazy ancient knights? Except they're not explained at all, they don't have a single line, and they just run off at the end?

-Humans attempting to make their own transformers? This created most of the terrible fluff of the film. And honestly, the KSI bots were really that terrible to me. I hate everything about them. The whole China storyline was entirely pointless.

-Optimus getting to the brink of losing faith in the human race, then meeting someone who brings him back? Except all it led to was Optimus KILLING A HUMAN ON PURPOSE, which is way way worse than Superman killing Zod, which made more sense. I loved Optimus' anger and frustration, but in that last moment he should have been better than that.

Now I'll be honest, some of my problems with AoE actually have to do with the piss poor followthrough that TLK lacked (way to bring up every possible storyline, add MORE, and STILL feel completely unsatisfying, adding closure to nothing), but honestly, AoE does a whole lot and still manages to do very little for me. Cheers to you if you like it, but to me it's one of the worst in the series. PS: The KSI bots are such utter garbage no one will ever convince me they're not and they really drag the movie down for me.

 

Even tho I like AoE, I'm agree with you that they should've split it into two different movies. Same with TLK..and yes, they crammed more ideas into TLK more than they did for AoE, which is why TLK felt like a bunch of clips from different movies put together

 

It was made to save the best friend. What would you do in this situation, having a couple of seconds to think? You all defend Attinger as a human, but forget, what the devil in the flesh he was.

 

Why is that a fake out? What was ever said it the movie that supposed to connect the dinobots to dinosaurs?

Well, yes. Eventually you have to have something happen in the movie. Would you like a movie where they spend the whole running time hiding?

He's not there to kill humans, why is it a problem that he only kills one person?

By letting his friend get murdered? How is that better?

 

If you ask me, many of those things you point out are part and parcel of the same story; they're not separate threads whatsoever, because they all come together. Optimus going into hiding and losing his faith in humanity are parts of the same arc, and both are connected to Transformium, Lockdown, and humans building their own Transformers. All of these things are narratively and thematically connected.

Barely explained? The Creators were somewhat mysterious, but even then we are given plenty of hints to their motivations, and their existence is mentioned many times and effects the actions of Prime.

And Transformium was explored not only by the dinosaur extinction, but by KSI's toying around with it in the present day. In some ways, KSI in the present day parallels the creation of Cybertronians millions of years ago.

But they already knew he was the rusty truck. Couldn't switching alt modes be potentially beneficial?

Sure, some of the Autobots have flashy alt modes, but alt modes are more than just disguises. They are transportation, they can have strategic uses beyond disguise, and they can show off personality. Crosshairs was a hot shot who loved to show off, so his alt mode arguably shows his cocky personality. Furthermore, just like Prime switched alt modes to stay out of Cemetery Wind's sight, it's likely the other Autobots had to switch disguises multiple times while Lockdown and his allies were hunting them.

Except Lockdown wasn't trying to kill humans. He didn't think much of us or our planet, sure, but for once in the movie we had an antagonist who wasn't out to destroy or enslave humanity, and frankly that was refreshing.

One, we were literally never promised a Dinobot-centric story. There was ZERO indication form trailers or interviews that was the case. They were the cavalry, and at that they perform their job quite spectacularly.

Two, why are people so obsessed with origins and explanations for the Dinobots, but not for Ravage, Scorponok, Shockwave, the Driller, Devastator, etc.? Were any of those latter robots explained whatsoever? Nope. Heck, besides Scorponok not one of those robots survived the film they first appear in. And if the Decepticons can have snarling brutes that don't converse intelligibly as soldiers, why not the Autobots?

Third, Optimus literally tells them they are free at the end of the film.

Fourth, and perhaps most importantly the Dinobots were to "normal" Cybertronians what dinosaurs are to us humans. If you came face with real life dinosaurs in the present day would you initially know anything about their origins? No, because dinosaurs to humans are these distant, almost legendary beasts that once ruled the Earth, even if birds are dinosaurs and there has been an explosion in paleontological knowledge in recent decades. The Dinobots were similarly almost mythological. They wouldn't know much about them.

Finally, at least the Dinobots were not these Transformers just randomly coming to Earth. Instead, they were prisoners on Lockdown's ship, Prime sees them as potential allies and frees them, and they help save the day.

The whole point about the KSI Transformers besides Galvatron is that they were cheap knock-offs, and they should have gotten their butts handed to them. They did lack the skills and Sparks of normal Cybertronians and were not up to the level of the Autobots.

Despite this, Stinger actually has a great battle against Bumblebee, and the KSI Decepticons do almost overwhelm Hound and Bee before the Dinobots charge through.

So Superman snapping a dude's neck to protect civilians is kosher, but Optimus blasting Attinger to protect Cade is not?  

Which kind of brings me to one of my main problems with the criticism of Age of Extinction. It's like some people have this double standard for other movies, including some of the earlier Transformers films, on one hand and the more recent films on the other.

Let me quote myself to show what I mean:

"Two, why are people so obsessed with origins and explanations for the Dinobots, but not for Ravage, Scorponok, Shockwave, the Driller, Devastator, etc.? Were any of those latter robots explained whatsoever? Nope. Heck, besides Scorponok not one of those robots survived the film they first appear in. And if the Decepticons can have snarling brutes that don't converse intelligibly as soldiers, why not the Autobots?"

The Allspark shrinking in size to the point a human can carry it? Frenzy gaining a brand new body from the Allspark out of thin air? I haven't seen many complaints about them, even though the Allspark was supposed to give life and not merely make things poof out of thin air. KSI's Transformers splitting up into cubes? Suddenly unacceptable for some reason.

The Dinobots being mysterious brutes who don't talk in understandable speech? Can't be tolerated. Scorponok, Brawl, Bonecrusher, Devastator, Ravage, etc. being the same? I have never heard anyone complain about them much. Shockwave having one line and getting little screen? This one I've heard more complaints about, but the amount of people who act as if this ruins Dark of the Moon are seemingly far fewer and in between than those who dislike AoE because of the Dinobots. Even though the AoE Dinobots actually get much more screen time and action than lots of other Transformers in the films including Shockwave, and they actually survive.

And Romeo and Juliet, which some people claim is the worst thing ever, is no worse than "Sam's Happy Time" or Blenderbots or Devastator's parts, but some people act like it is. If anything the latter are presented in a much more crude manner.

Yeah, there are double standards in this fandom.

 

I can look past a lot of issues in AOE, but the one thing that I absolutely can't stand is how long the movie is. Yeah the other films were on the long side too, but AOE is pushing it for me.

 

YES.

A lot of people to this day still complain about that. They make it sound like Optimus got pissed at some random guy walking down the street and shot him, or that it was a planned murder.

Rarely do they bring up in their argument that it was in the heat of battle and that Attinger was legit probably the most evil human villain in Transformers so far.