A thought on Bay and why the original topped ROTF.

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Shadow25, Jul 22, 2009.

  1. Shadow25

    Shadow25 Well-Known Member

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    I was at odds with myself in my opinion on Michael Bay as a filmmaker after I saw ROTF. In both films on the whole I really enjoyed the action sequences, which Bay had a lot to do with. However, such elements as the amount of humor, the tone, and characterization are things Bay could improve on.

    Thinking about it, I came out of TF1 very happy with the Autobots' development; all of them. When Jazz died I actually felt bad (compared to me not caring at all when Jetfire died or Arcee maybe died), and I felt all of the Autobots showed a great extent of teamwork despite the focus being on Prime and BB for obvious reasons. The tone was also much more consistent and enjoyable than the erratic tone in ROTF, and the humor, while in plenty, did well beause it was more situational and not as forced. So, why did things change so much in the sequel?

    What I think: Everyone, Bay included, had a big challenge on their hands with the first film. Before Transformers became two summer blockbusters it was a cartoon and toyline. Everyone knew if this was to become a high-grossing film SERIES, the first film would have to set up the universe in a way to appeal to fans, non-fans, and most of all the average movie-goer. Even Bay said that by doing things very real in terms of effects, that woulld be the wow to the audience. If the concept did not click, then TF would be done as a film franchise. So in that respect Bay knew that while it was his film, it was going to take the input of many to get this right.

    Now, in ROTF, the universe had already been successfully established. Everyone was on board with the concept, so I guess Bay felt he could have much more free reign with characters (ie, creating the Twins and killing Arcee just because of his fancy), including more sexual humor, and more giant explosions. While he always parades "a Michael Bay film" around all of his movies, I think ROTF felt more like the general Bay movie than the first offering.

    In conclusion, I would like to have him back for TF3 but only if he would make the film more of a collaborative effort than "his baby", which unfortunately I think is doubtful. It's sad when you read these interviews with Bob Orci and Alex Kurtzman in which they're not even sure if Arcee is dead or not, and have to apologize to everyone the Twins offended. When the writers aren't even sure what's going on, you know something's wrong.
     
  2. Jetstorm

    Jetstorm Wielder of the Keyblade

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    You didn't feel bad when Jetfire died? The Autobot with the most dialogue?

    Whatever.

    I actually felt sad when it LOOKED like Mudflap was gonna die.

    Oh well, different strokes for different folks.
     
  3. Sso02V

    Sso02V Injector Has a Posse

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    You're just a crazy OH-SEVVENNER
     
  4. jonatron26

    jonatron26 Well-Known Member

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    you know, i hear different strokes make the world go 'round
     
  5. Malikon

    Malikon Well-Known Member

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    I agree that the humor felt very forced in the 2nd movie. Imo the Mom character went from cute and funny, to fake and obnoxious.

    Bay's pretty clearly proven he's good at action, and that's about it.

    *and I really, really wish he'd stop with the spinning 360 camera moves in every. single. movie.
     
  6. prime is a legend

    prime is a legend Hooch is crazy.

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    I couldn't agree more, with what Shadow25 is saying in this thread. Bay needs to make the next movie a little more collaberative, as it seemed that he had too much free reign in Revenge of the Fallen. I do hope in the next one he stays on as the action sequences in both movies are pretty awesome, even though I didn't like revenge of the fallen that much, the forest sequence was probably the best action scene of the summer so far by a distance!
     
  7. Autobot_Wall-E

    Autobot_Wall-E The Musical

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    I agree with topic creater.
     
  8. 1govnor1

    1govnor1 Giggidy

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    Shadow25 - you make some good points, although, did you not care even a little when Jetfire sacrificed himself?
     
  9. llamatron

    llamatron Shut up, Nigel. TFW2005 Supporter

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    Jetfire's sacrifice had the chance to be very dramatic but it was just a rushed afterthought. It had zero impact at all. Objectively that part was very poorly crafted.
     
  10. Covenant

    Covenant Mr. Roboto in Disguise

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    Ebay:
    :lolol 
     
  11. Shadow25

    Shadow25 Well-Known Member

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    This. I loved Jetfire.
    But how could you be sad when he slumps to the ground, 10 seconds later is armor, and 3 minutes later is on the ground in a heap of parts. No one in the movie had any apparent sorrow of his sacrifice (Looking at YOU, Ratchet.), so it was hard for me to.
     
  12. knyghtmare2021

    knyghtmare2021 The Goddamn Knyghtmare

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    You know having seen the movie 3 times now I completely disagree. It's war. A casuality like Arcee (IF she did die) is something one should expect in a movie such as this... quick, brutal and unexpected. As for Jetfire.. I remember reading a fan script where Ironhide did pretty much the same thing and no one complained. I personally felt bad, and little pround of Jetfire for his sacrifice... I mean a con (even though he switched sides) ripping out his own spark so Prime could fulfill his destiny? Whens the last time the cartoons did that? Never to my knowledge. Sorry, didn't mean to get up on a soap box. Just my two cents
     
  13. Covenant

    Covenant Mr. Roboto in Disguise

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    Ebay:
    The whole end sequence is guilty of stuff like this.
     
  14. Shadow25

    Shadow25 Well-Known Member

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    And it was all Bay all the time. Huge explosions, huger explosions, crumbling stuff, it was basically his playground. Unlike the first movie, where the five blocks of Mission City presented a much smaller playground and turned out more coherent and better overall, being able to emphasize on specific parts without losing the greater focus.
     
  15. Smasher

    Smasher HUNKY BEATS

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    I'm not saying that the director has no input or is unable to change the script, but I have gone through two movies now with everyone talking about Michael Bay and this overpower he has on Transformers movie lore.
    Everyone realizes that he did not write either movie, correct?

    Did anyone listen to the commentary on the DVD\Bluray of the first movie?
    Did you hear him say how certain things came directly from Hasbro, the military, etc?

    You just described ROTF and almost any episode of Transformers; G1, Beast Wars, RID -huge explosions and huger explosions.
     
  16. Shadow25

    Shadow25 Well-Known Member

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    Let me stop you right there- Did you not read my post? I said TF1 succeeded by and large by the collaboration of many knowing they had to get this franchise right on the big screen. Even Bay. The sequel is where things started to drift into Bayhem. And you do realize that much of the humor, as well as most of the lines by Twins and Wheelie, were written by him or he had direct influence on it? With the Writers' Strike Bay added much of the humor and some of the characters to the writers' draft.

    You just described ROTF and almost any episode of Transformers; G1, Beast Wars, RID -huge explosions and huger explosions.[/QUOTE]

    Yeah, except the latter have characters who are developed and you grow to like them. ROTF only had a few.
     
  17. TankRizzo

    TankRizzo Well-Known Member

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    yup...felt the same way about Jazz in the first one.
     
  18. Wazzpinator

    Wazzpinator is playin ODST

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    I agree with the OP.

    Jetfire's death meant nothing. Prime didn't give a crap, when he was finished, he just tossed his body parts aside. It made no damn sense to kill the character as they have already established that robots could combine while still alive. It just felt like Jetfire was suicidal and found a good excuse.

    "QUICK!! TAKE MY OLD MAN POWERS!"
     
  19. Shadow25

    Shadow25 Well-Known Member

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    I also think Bay ran out of time and rushed to finish the movie in under 2 1/2 hours. There was very little wrap up, it just ended. In the first movie most plot elements and characters (not all, but most) got closure. Not so in ROTF.
     
  20. mfa8578

    mfa8578 transparentprime

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    the fact is... bay is not a tf fan is he? i remembered an article saying that he had to do a huge amunt of research before tf movie can be produced.

    now don't you guys see what's wrong here? i totally agree with shadow 25 cause what he's trying to highlight here is the fact that rotf is swerving even from its tf 2007 counterpart.

    furthermore, am i the only one who thinks that tf storyline should've just followed the original g1 series? guys... it took merely 6 years for g1 to be concluded. don't ya think that this is more than enough to be a movie base? tf 2007 was great because its smooth-flowed storyline and i guess nothing was overdone. rotf however, good in its ability to portray an action movie but definitely not a good stuff to resemble the original version of what a tfshould be.

    any opinions...?
     

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