A reboot: why it may be best.

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Kaymac, Aug 23, 2011.

  1. Kaymac

    Kaymac I'M REALLY FEELIN' IT!

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    Many fans have expressed the desire for a reboot to the Transformers film franchise. The series has supposedly come to a close, and Michael Bay will no longer be working on the franchise, nor will Shia Labeouf. A new director means a new feel for the movies, and no Shia means no Sam, so they would have to follow another person's interactions with the robots. Main Decepticons dead means they'd have to form an entirely new cast, and there is no established "Empire" where Decepticons may be hanging out in the universe.

    Anyways, onto the pros of the reboot. Hasbro needs to get their hands in the design process, instead of letting the team do it's own thing. It's Hasbro's goddamn franchise, and I'm pretty sure they don't want a repeat of the stupid humor we encountered in the last 3 movies. That is not child friendly, and not something that should be in a movie based on a series of toys. Hasbro also needs to send the team a nice copy of the Binder of Revelation to get them started. Hasbro seems to want Aligned to be the main continuity for the future of the franchise, and placing the new movie in there as a possible live action adaptation of Prime, or a divergent story in the same continuity family, may prove useful. Also, the designs should be closer to Classics or Alternators, so as to diminish the need for a "Classics" line. The Movie Reboot line WOULD be Classics, and fans who aren't keen on the current movie aesthetic need not complain. Also, these sort of designs would be cheaper to animate, and there could be a lot more scenes with just the robots. The robots don't need to be chunky, scrap metallic monstrosities to be convincing in a live action movie. While I've never been a hater of the movie aesthetic, it's something that may be pulling the franchise down, as people who grew up with the robots often cite the designs as being jarring, and diverging too much from the original characters.

    The writers may be pulling the franchise down to. They claim to be fans, but all I am seeing is a mediocre fan fiction of a plot. Bring on someone who knows their stuff, like Simon Furman, to be a story consultant. Spend some damn money on writers, as the plot is what drives the motivations of the robots. While what I am suggesting may seem more fan wank than the usual, is that really so bad? Appealing to those that grew up on the franchise will bring in an audience, as well as those that are still hard core fans. Expanding the demographic so this is a FAMILY movie would be the best way to go. Also, the writers should think ahead for a trilogy, or even further, so any future TF movies can be in the same continuity, with no plot holes. Anyways, long rant over, please proceed to tear my ideas to shreds.

    tl;dr, a reboot would be better than Transformers 4.
     
  2. LISpictures

    LISpictures Well-Known Member

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    As much as i would want a reboot. It's a no go for me if the transformers don't have the movie aesthetic type of look.
     
  3. UltraAlanMagnus

    UltraAlanMagnus Page D'Ecriture Spy Cousin Jeice

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    A Reboot would be a terrible Idea. it would ruin the whole franchise
     
  4. Nachtsider

    Nachtsider Banned

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    Quoted for absolute truth.

    The plots, and by extension the writers, have been the movies' weakest aspect. Give us someone with actual experience penning TF material like Furman, Forward, Roche, Roberts or Isenberg, instead of a bunch of untried yahoos.
     
  5. Sinnertwin

    Sinnertwin Banned

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    lol

    Whatever you say, superstar
     
  6. Ephland

    Ephland Let's Go Rangers

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    If they can do a movie in the Jason Bourne series without Jason Bourne, they can continue this one.

    I think you mean the writing process, not the design process.

    Based on what, exactly? I've got 7 Alternators figures, and none of them would be a good fit for a live action series. They wouldn't look right, and they DEFINITELY wouldn't animate easily at all. Don't get me wrong, I love the look of the line (that's why I have seven of them). But I just don't see them translating well to the screen.

    First of all, I know this pisses some people off, but I'm going to disagree with you regarding your "pulling the franchise down" statement based on the BO numbers. DOTM alone has made almost $1.1 billion worldwide. There's nothing that's "pulling the franchise down". At all. If you personally don't like the designs (or are pointing out how some people don't), that's understandable. But at this point, it's a little ludicrous to say this or that is hurting the franchise....

    ...Such as this.

    First of all - who is the "they"? There was only one as of the third film. Kurtzman and Orci never claimed to be fans, if I recall correctly, just that they were aware of the franchise. I know people like to give them credit for an amazing first movie, but let's be honest: the story was already written for them. Alien robot race comes to Earth, in the midst of a war.

    When it came time for them to come up with their own ideas, well... we got ROTF. Yes, there was a strike that affected production. And yeah, part of ROTF is on Kruger as well. But Kruger (who has been recognized as the fan of the franchise) went solo for DOTM, and to give credit where credit is due - the story for DOTM was definitely an upgrade over ROTF, and you can make the case it's the strongest of the 3.

    Also - I don't think money is the issue when it comes to writers. You can either have established Hollywood writers or you can have Transformers fans.

    There is not going to be a magic formula that pleases all the fans. And there's little motivation to change the current formula.

    Only if you're trying to piss off a lot of people who grew up with the franchise. Don't underestimate the number of people who want this shit "Dark Knight-ed".

    Rarely is that done in Hollywood.
     
  7. Overlord Balder

    Overlord Balder Voices Slugslinger!

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    Thing is, the main problem here is that you're not offering reasons as to why a reboot would be better, you're pretty much just saying "I don't like Bayformers, so I want something new", that's nothing wrong with that, but you should have titled your thread "A Reboot: Why I think it may be best".

    In short, pretty much all of your reasoning works only if one dislikes the movie-verse: Humour? Based on opinion, Movie-writing quality? Based on opinion.

    The only reasonable point I see is the whole Hasbro's "plans for Prime" thing, that's a good point that indeed makes sense.

    Even though that's biased: Why can't the same be done for a fourth movie?

    Biased facts aside, I repeat: Why can't the same be done for a TF4? Make a fourth movie, but with one of those guys as creative consultants [NOT as a scriptwriter, I have repeated a thousand of times that bringing someone that never wrote a script in his life to work as a scriptwriter is the worst idea one could have].

    And what about those that ARE keen on the aesthetic?

    Thing is: Every TF franchise has wildly different designs, we can't complain about the "DIFEEEREEENCE" because every franchise brings a new aesthetic [Prime, Animated, BW, e.t.c].

    The main problem with your "plan" is that it's only looking to one edge of the knife: Of those who don't like the movie-verse, that would make sense if everyone hated the movie-verse, but there is a [rather large] amount of fans who love the movie-verse as well.
     
  8. modzprime29

    modzprime29 Well-Known Member

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    I will not go see a transformers reboot that is based on the classics line which looks like G1, just because they made a toyline doesn't mean they need to have make a movie to acompany it. Do you think Hasbro will make a movie that has the same design as G1 just for fans? That will be far fetch for Hasbro. I will like a 4th movie but I will like a reboot if it's about the Prime show, not something that looks like G1 in the present day live-action. Also do you have any proof that the writers may be "bringing down" the franchise or is it your own opinon becuause if it is, you really need to state that, and about the about that "stupid humor", are you speaking for yourself or everyone because I quite like that "stupid humor" and Hasbro seems to also because after 2 movies that had "stupid humor" when the writers wrote the script for the 3rd movie that had "stupid humor", Hasbro obiusly liked the script that had "stupid humor" and didn't seem to anything about it so you need to Talk about yourself and don't talk for other people because not everybody agrees with your statements you stated.
     
  9. bellpeppers

    bellpeppers A Meat Popsicle

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    Can't ruin that which is aready done!
     
  10. WreckNRule426

    WreckNRule426 Autobot

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    Am I reading this right? A Transformers fan is claiming the newest iteration is going to ruin the franchise forever??? (GIANT GASP) GOOD PRIMUS, SOMEBODY WRITE THIS DOWN!!!
     
  11. Kaymac

    Kaymac I'M REALLY FEELIN' IT!

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    I never said they couldn't continue the current movie franchise, just that it may be wise to try a different formula and see if it does any better.

    I didn't mean that, but also the main "design" of the movie, as in what kind of humor would be appropriate, what's the right level of violence, etc.

    I mean for the more realistic Transformation schemes, as they are designed with interiors, etc. I just want something that can translate easier into toy designs, and some sort of design that lends itself better to the divergent fiction as well, such as comics. It should be an aesthetic that's a little more pleasing to the eye. Don't get me wrong, it can incorporate aspects of the old movies, but 10,000 piece robots are going a little overboard.

    I know the franchise makes a lot of money, but it could make a LOT more with a better plot. Something that feels like it's written by competent people.

    The first movie was great, I'm not doubting that, and if future TF movies could be that caliber or higher, we'd be getting somewhere. Now don't get me wrong, Orci and Kurtzman can write good TF fiction, they just need time, and some guidance from Hasbro. Look at Prime!

    The second and third movies feel weak, and there's one common thing between them, Kruger. DOTM had the same feel as ROTF, toned down somewhat. It's like Kruger just said "How would Orci and Kurtzman do it", instead of doing his own thing.

    Or you can have strong writers, with guidance from Hasbro, that can make an intelligently written story with engaging characters. The writer doesn't have to be a fan, they just have to know how to take the franchise and keep it's core elements. Do some actual research.

    Certainly. Fans will always complain about something, but it feels a large chunk of fans like the movies, and another large chunk hate them. Some fans are exclusively movie, others exclusively G1, some people are easy to please and like almost everything. If someone is predisposed to bitching, they will bitch, no doubt about that.

    When I say "family", I mean that anyone in your family could watch it. Sure, there could be violence, and it could be a pretty dark film, whilst ridding of the humor that drags the story down.

    Understood, but Hasbro could keep an ongoing story running by naming characters that can't be killed, etc.

    Understood, but I wished to project my thoughts more seriously, instead of typing "I think that" and "In my opinion". Also, I think I may be speaking for multiple fans who want a change. I need to see more of response, however.

    While I do not hate the quality of writing (the first movie was superb), it could be stronger, and I don't think there's anyone that doubts that. These aren't the best movies out there when it comes to writing, but can't something be well written AND a spectacle?

    If Hasbro can manage to hold the continuity together, it could make for some good storytelling. Having an established cast, as well as an established storyline all work well together.

    It could, certainly. Hasbro just needs to take hold of their franchise, but if they try to grab hold of the reins on this already established fiction, the writers may feel stifled. Hasbro also wants to keep their core characters, and reviving Megatron again, to me, would be stupid.

    I understand that hiring Simon Furman to write a whole script wouldn't be all that wise. That's why I suggested a consultant, with a competent writer at the helm, possibly with a Hasbro story bible to guide him on what kind of choices should be made.

    Elements of the movie aesthetic would still be present in the toyline, with non-movie characters, and other side-lines providing it. The Prime toyline also contains aspects of the Movie in it's design. Abandoning the aesthetic completely would be a bad move IMO, as it's so iconic.

    Certainly. If the designs were more like Prime, that could work, as they are a lot less jarring in their aesthetic. However, getting real vehicles to Transform that way may prove difficult, even with CGI.

    Those that like the movieverse probably wouldn't be adverse to a more intelligently written storyline. All I'm saying is that Transformers should be moreso about the robots, and making the robots less complicated would make it cheaper to animate, and they could have more robots. Long explanation, I know. Anyways, a lot of these are my AND my non-fan friend's views. I have an "outside of the fandom" view from my friend, and it's a cool perspective to see how the public reacts.
     
  12. Bountyan

    Bountyan Well-Known Member

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    Classics or Alternator's aesthetic? I disagree. I think the Prime aesthetic is the best example of what the movie should have been. A lot cheaper and easier to make and animate, but still don't have the doofy blockiness and lack of complexity the old robots do.

    I still don't think a reboot is all that necessary though. Are getting a better director and better writers really relevant to having a reboot?
     
  13. Mr. Sinister

    Mr. Sinister Cat + Sinister = TROUBLE

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    Honestly, no one really seemed to care about a reboot until Ironhide died.
     
  14. Star Saber

    Star Saber Cybertron 5th Commander

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    A reboot is most likely.

    Why?

    Because Hasbro can make more money off it :)  It's the same reason we get a new series of toys couple of years. Hasbro will have more difficulty selling a toy that looks too similar to one they just released a year or two ago. Solution? New designs, new characters.
     
  15. Ephland

    Ephland Let's Go Rangers

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    I know. I wasn't disagreeing with you, just offering an example of how a continuity can continue without the major players involved.

    All I know is, one of my Alternators figures has the bucket seats form the feet.

    I know what you're getting at, but honestly, it's just not going to work out that way. First of all, let's not pretend as though Transformers is this universal brand that is just waiting for the right production team to come along to make the perfect film that everyone will love. That's never been the case and that will never be the case.

    Secondly - what's the better plot going to be? Remember, it's got to not only stay true to the spirit of the franchise, and has to appeal to fans, non-fans, kids and adults. Not an easy task, for any writer.

    I sincerely hope future movies are better than TF1, because it had a lot of problems.

    That's an opinion, and obviously a valid one. But as they say, "money talks", and both of those films made Hasbro a ton of money. I bring that up only to say that it's enough money to pretty much cancel out any legitimate shot of a reboot.

    Again, it's a good plan, but this isn't Shakespeare we're talking about.
     
  16. thebruteslayer

    thebruteslayer Banned

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    tl;dr

    EDIT: After skimming through it, the translation reads:

    "I don't like Bayformers and I want a new movie just because I didn't like them even though millions of fans loved them and want to start the same story over again when we could have gone to different places with a second trilogy in the same continuity or help write more back story
    with a prequel. I also want cheaper designs to animate that would look like something Asylum would make just to see more robots that won't really connect with a human audience."

    Just sayin'.
     
  17. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

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    As a film buff I've noticed how hard it gets to go past three films while attempting to keep everything the same. You end up with things like Alien Resurrection or Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. Or with only small changes you end up with something like Terminator Salvation with Skynet attempting the same things it's done for three other films.

    Then you have the other problems when you make big changes to the production team and try to keep it all the same and in the same film universe. Tim Burton managed to bring a pretty cool vision of Batman's world to the big screen, but when Joel Schumacher tired to make a Tim Burton style movie it just ended up as the mess titled Batman and Robin. The changes of the Bruce Wane role really didn't help the films either.

    If people really want to run the franchise into the ground because it's getting low on ideas and they want some other director to come in and be exactly like Micheal Bay then who am I to stop them? Looking at film history I just don't think they will be as happy as they think they will when they find out that another production team isn't going to be able to replicate the things they liked about the first three films.

    Some people might think it's crazy but I'm glad Spiderman decided to start over rather than telling another director they have to fit into the Sam Raimi films, movie feel and characters.

    Personally I think it's better to give a new production team all the freedom they need instead of saddling them to the first three films. Better to let the first three films stand on their own and start over like Batman did and X-Men did with First Class.
     
  18. Livingdeaddan

    Livingdeaddan Gotta get to sleep somehow...

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    Well, although there is a pattern there, I don't think you can really apply that model to the TF Movies, I mean, are you really comparing TF1 to Raiders, or ROTF to Aliens or T2, Maybe DOTM fairs a bit better in the "threequals" round, but as a Trilogy, TF fails against those other movies in all but the moderness of its SFX. Ergo, as none of the TF movies are on particularly high pedalstalls, TF4 has a lot more chance of pleasing an audience.

    Maybe a fourth should be made, squeeze a bit more money out of it, get some more toys maybe a new TV show, and then let it breath for a few years, before the reboot!

    Just to be clear, I personally want to see a reboot! I want Starscream to narrate the opening monologues! True story! Be amazing to see the disparity between the way he tells the story, and reality we see simultaneously on screen
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2011
  19. Furious Rodimus

    Furious Rodimus Matrix Bearer

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    I'm against a re-boot b/c I'm a little tired of origin stories in general, and the Transformers one has been told more than a few times as well. Also, I want to find out what optimus prime will be without Megatron. Frankly there are so many stories that can be told with the legions of characters in Transformers that to me it would feel silly to confine ourselves to the same 1-2 dozen for the movie franchise.
     
  20. Livingdeaddan

    Livingdeaddan Gotta get to sleep somehow...

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    Thats true enough, but I don't think using the same basic character pool means you need to stick to the same origin stories. We could see Megs and Prime battle it out at any point in history or the future, or change the focus to different characters interactions, make it about Jazz and Strscreams common history or anything, it doesn't have to be set on earth, it could be a story pre war or war dawn, there are no boundries. You can't get annoyed at people who want to see there favourite bots a cons get good on-screen account, because hollywood doesn't seem to have any good sci fi writers any more!

    (that you are annoyed at people is just an assumption, if its not true I apologise! :) )
     

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