A real reason to be worried about part 2 (A reasonable thread)

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by roy_flagg00, Jun 27, 2008.

  1. roy_flagg00

    roy_flagg00 I want more life....

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    First off, I was a detractor of the first movie. I though it was awefull and still think that today (screw G1 as well. Beastwars FTW!). I have, however, come to grips with the movie, and in a strange way I appreciate it now. Sure it was a shameless vehicle for promotion of consumer goods, but I would like to think that it satisfied people's desire for a "big reveal" and mindless action while also setting up a sequel that would provide a bit more depth to the characters. When I say characters, I am refering to the important ones, the Transformers themselves.
    I now conclude that I might be wrong.
    One of Bay's recent coments has stuck with me and has me fearing the worst: "this is a story of a boy turning into a man"
    That indicates to me that we are once again going to see a movie where aside from two or three big action scenes that really push the envelope, part 2 is going to copy part 1 in the worst ways:
    -three stooges-esq autobot interaction
    -new decepticon characters who get off one line of dialog, fight a bit, then die
    -comic relief (yea theres more) provided by the most stereotypical, cookie cutter human characters possible
    -toilet humor where ever it can be fit in, no matter how awkward or inapropriate
    -excessive screen/plot time given to the two young popular stars of the movie

    I am not going to hate this movie before I see it. I learned my lesson participating in the flame wars over the first movie and being a spectator watching the flame wars over animated. But if this movie does not come with the meat AND potatos, I am going to be very upset. I don't give two craps about some college kid and his personal issues. They show crap like that on tv for free and I don't watch it, so I'll be damned if I am going to pay 10 bucks to see Dawson's Creek with the Transformers characters relegated to second fiddle. My dream would be 1:45 of Robot action/dialog and 15-30 mins of human action/dialog.
    Think about it. In the Transformers Universe, how much great drama and character conlict is there? A subplot in the movie of Sunstreaker and Sideswipe with Sunstreaker being a double agent for the Decepticons (easily plausible) would be awesome to see. Maybe Grimlock and Prime fighting for leadership of the Autobots? The rest of the seekers and the various personality problems that they bring to the table? The incecticons playing mind games? The hate/fear relationship between the Stunticons and Motormaster? The various disolutioned Autobots and trying to get them to join the cause? The Constructicons as arogant but talented builders who link to for devastator, and then destroy their creations, causing them to rethink their alliance with megatron? The predacons being the next evolution of cybertronians come to earth to hunt down the last of the "old models"?
    I am not a writer, but I am a reader/watcher, and I know that there is enough source material for the writers and director of this movie to come out with a quality product that has a good, deep story and is also action packed. This will help build the brand, which is the goal at the end of the day. People may talk crap about G1, but it cannot be denied that the cartoon series and the movie helped build and emotional connect to the characters and the brand. This connection helped the brand survive the lean years between the end of G1 and begining of Beastwars, as well as between the end of Beastwars and begining of RID. If part 2 is as shallow as part one, the youth will treat it as a fad, just like pokemon and yu gi oh (Those two brands might as well be in the grave at this point). Bay should really look at the more recent Marvel movies (hulk, ironman)as examples of success and realize that if he dumbs down this movie, it will make huge money at the box office initially, but it will sew the seeds of death for the brand.
     
  2. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

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    Some really good points.

    Not in the movie is going to stink crowd when it's still so far from done, but it does seem like we are pretty deep in things I wasn't so happy with the first go round. Seems like the teens are going to be stars again instead of bots, talk of character but you hardly hear the word Decepticon thrown around, and other things that leave on the worried side. Even all the bigger talk sort builds a worry that we might have lots of sound and fury but not a good story to write home about.

    While it might seem a bit evil to say perhaps the fad path will be the only thing to ever save it for the rest of us. Remember how the Batman series got into a fad but after it jumped the shark we went from silly actor choices for villians and nipples on Bat suit to a Batman movie series that's far nicer to comic book fans. Perhaps it will make loads of money for a few films to keep Hollywood interested in making money off the bots and just relaunch the whole thing later on. Hollywood seems to live by trends so perhaps this current trend of live action bots will be redone like other franchies.

    I guess the best plan right now is to set our expectations low, don't fall for the hype or marketing, then see if they throw the old dogs a bone or two this go round.
     
  3. Liege Prime

    Liege Prime Well-Known Member

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    Well, the truth is, we all wanted the transformers themselves to be the main characters, and it was Sam all along. (if nothing else made you think that in the movie then Sam killing off Megatron at the end would hammer it into you)
    Now, their are a legion of fans of the movie that never bought a figure that I'm guessing far outnumber the more hardcore fans. And as far as they're concerned this guy Sam is the main character, and the robots are cool padding for the action. So, in order to make maximum dollar, they're going to do it again.

    I liked the movie. It dissapointed the hardcore fan in me, but even if Prime and other transformers were on the screen for only 5 minutes, that was 5 minutes of being in awe. It was like seeing a popcorn action filck with Transformers thrown in for good measure, and that at least made it one of my more memorable movie going experiences of my life. And still, toys are what matter to me most in regards to Transformers, so any success in any way that leads to more toys is fine by me.
     
  4. Spartan Prime

    Spartan Prime is an apathetic douchebag

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    Love the movie, or hate it, truth be told you should just be happy for what you got.

    Why?

    It could have been directed by Uwe Boll. And no one wants that.
     
  5. Chaos Prime

    Chaos Prime Combaticon

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    You raise a very valid point.
     
  6. Lance Halberd

    Lance Halberd oh hai

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    Not even, surprisingly, Uwe Boll.


    ...

    As a casual fan, I see the movies for what they are: a vehicle to provide insight to our extensive, complex, and ultimately financially lucrative fanboy obsession. The first movie was made for the masses; people who either knew nothing about the Transformers mythos, or vaguely remembered that red truck and the flying gun from the early 80s. The movie delivered them into our world, and prepared it in easily digestible and comprehensible chunks that they could easily relate to. Not everyone has the opportunity to spend years, if not decades learning every corner, every facet of all things Transformers. If the first movie's sole purpose was to cater to fans, it would have not even gotten the green light from the studio, because no one else on earth would have understood it except for us, and spending so many hundreds of millions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of man hours on a project that focuses solely on the wants and needs of a tiny percentage of the whole of humanity isn't a sound business practice.

    The second movie will be more of the same.

    However, thanks to the rampant success of the first movie, it can now bank on hundreds of millions of people who know know more about Transformers than they did before the first movie, which means that its story will have a much broader scope, will be able to delve more into the backstory of Transformers, while at the same time being delivered in those easily digestible chunks for the benefit of those moviegoers who didn't get a chance to learn about everything Cybertronian in the two years between July 2007 and July 2009.

    Ultimately, it's not worth raising one's hackles or getting one's panties in a twist over every photo or on-set snippet that we get this early in the game as we ultimately have no context to what we're seeing.

    Then again, doomsaying and wild speculation and tolling the death knell of the franchise for every iota of minutia that isn't exactly what someone hoping for or expecting does make for a good read.
     
  7. Superion33

    Superion33 Banned

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    I am too disillusioned with this movie franchise right now to even raise my expectations again. Its only goingt to be a popcorn flick. It will be all about action and very minimal about telling a good story. The humans will be the main characters and the robots will be background characters, nothing more.

    Even worse, I see the mistakes being repeated again from the 1st movie. A disparate group of characters with wildly convoluted and disconnected story lines. I thought they'd simplify it from 6 groups to something like 3 groups. Seeing as how most movies only focus on at MOST 3 groups, I thought the writers would learn their lesson. Unfortunately not.

    The humans are once again the stars. Lennox has more character development. Sam has more character development. Simmons has more character development. Mikaela has more character development. Now you have Isabel Lucas also having more character development. What does that mean? More character development for the humans equals less time for robot character development.

    We are most likely going to have something akin to a Pretender it seems. And a midget. That just sets it up for more toilet humor.
     
  8. SilverDragon

    SilverDragon YEAH TOAST!

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    Maybe the whole thing about a boy changing into a man means that Sam will become a transformer with the alt mode of a man. Probably Simmons.
     
  9. Dropshot

    Dropshot Transform your destiny

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    I am one of the few in this board who loved the movie, not just liked it, but completely loved it and applauded Michael Bay as the director, because I knew the man knows how to make action movies and has the best visual sense and that's all I wanted for transformers.

    I was sure that transformers wouldn't have much screentime due to budget limitations, but I liked most of the human characters (I hate Glenn, but who doesn't?). But I honestly expect a more serioues tone, more character development and more transformers screen time.
     
  10. Paradigm-Shift Prime

    Paradigm-Shift Prime Unit Warrior TFW2005 Supporter

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    These are also all characteristics I disliked with the 1st movie too and hope for changes of but aren't really expecting too. I didn't 'hate' the 1st movie but as a TF fan first and a movie goer second, I need more than streamlined hollywood popcorn fluff to really appreciate a movie and to have found the TF movie to be anything 'special'.

    I agree too and it's an interesting thought about why they couldn't just have developed character subplots through the TFs rather than humans (i.e. your sunstreaker working for the dcons bit) to still acheive a bit of that teen blockbuster element while still keeping it a movie about TFs.
     
  11. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

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    Not just Average Joe but there was also selling the whole deal to the Hollywood suits. The way the writers talked it was a superhuman effort to get any "toy" movie done.

    Of course making money once got them scrambling to make other "toy" movies like GI Joe.

    And who knows it took some risks getting superhero movies made again which were not so fan friendly at first only to have fan friendly superhero movies now. With money to be made from "toy" movies perhaps one day we can get a fan friendlier Transformers.
     
  12. Red leader

    Red leader Nom Nom Nom

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    I love the movie, I cant say a bad word about it, I saw it twice in theatres and multiple times on DVD, I'm just pleased Bay stayed so faithful to the characters, he could have ripped it to shreds, I mean c'mon I got goose bumps when Prime uttered those immortal words at the end of the movie ''One shall stand, on shall fall'' AWESOME :) 
     
  13. Thundercrackah

    Thundercrackah Well-Known Member

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    Oh dear. Not this old chestnut again. :lol 

    Same old thing has been said about every single incarnation since Beast Wars.

    It never happens, it never comes true and it's boring to listen to.

    I loved the first movie and will probably love the second one as well, even if it flops (which it won't) it won't kill Transformers. End of story.
     
  14. Alienbot

    Alienbot Well-Known Member

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    *Yawn*, if you were one of the few to dislike the film, then don't go see it. In the meantime, the majority of us will line up and fund TF3.
     
  15. darthrage

    darthrage Leader Class

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    oh man imagine that. I think the words "death threat" will be taken literally if Uwe Boll were to direct transformers.

    Uwe Boll and Transformers should not even be uttered in the same sentence. That should be illegal.
     
  16. Ceasar121

    Ceasar121 Wants a Toxitron repaint!

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    So you've read the script? Cause I'm trying to figure out how you know all of this based off of one month off shooting (during which we've seen a ton of different cars) and still have little to no info on what's said by the characters etc... And yes the humans will be in the movie. They've been a major part of tf's since RID. They were in quite a few scenes in G1.

    Why do people have unrealistic expectations? All live action movies have the human element.
     
  17. Rotorstorm

    Rotorstorm OriginalRotorstorm Fanboy

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    That sounds like an awesome premise.

    I don't think that the second movie can have less Transformer stuff in it than the first one, seeing how they're already here and not hiding from the star for the first half of the film.

    With any luck there'll be a character like Frenzy in it, I didn't care much for some of the humour in the film but he was fantastic.
     
  18. Kortex

    Kortex Well-Known Member

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    Relax dude!!!! I think you re over reacting... Its only one little sentence Bay said... Maybe It will infact be about Sam growing up...but as part of the robots war... Come on.. Didnt you also read the part when Bay says it s nothing like the first one and it will blow up??? Dont be so pessimistic and just enjoy and appreciate the fact that TF2 in coming and will definately be the best movie of 2009!!!!
    First one was to introduce the world to Transformers... now that we know what they are, where they came from and what they want... I guess it s time to ear them speak and see them fight... And Orci promised more Decepticons moments also.... At least wait for the movie to start critisizing!!! It s not even done filming yet and only a small fragment (wich seems pretty cool and full of robots action) has been leaked... Anyway....
     
  19. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

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    I think it's just part of human nature. Some movies really hit it out of the park for what the old geeks want like Ironman did so some part of us wonders why all our geek films can't be as geek friendly. We tend to forget it took things like the first Hulk movie and X-Men 3 to get them to drop some of the common man stuff for the geek stuff, which it turns out the common man seems to like as well.

    Even if the first live action Transformers movie had universally loved by the fan base there would still have been some people slightly disapointed because some beloved character got left or some bot didn't the chance to shine as bright as some other bot. Just the nature of fandom to want a little bit more and to hope for just a little bit than before.
     
  20. ian5555

    ian5555 Well-Known Member

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    You need to look at it for what it is, a Hollywood movie to make $$. Most people that go see the movie are not huge TF fans and MB knows this. I look at it for what it is, just happy they are making them. Only bad thing is prices of G1 TF go up so completeing my MIB collection is all that much harder :( 
     

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