A question for those that are "tired of G1" or whatever

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by Nightrain, Mar 19, 2010.

  1. Nightrain

    Nightrain Senior Villain

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    Is it important to you that future characters NOT be anything like G1?

    What I'm getting at is: Cyclops will always be Cyclops in any X-Men continuity. Duke will always be Duke. Batman will always be Batman. Man-at-Arms will always be Man-at-Arms. Kirk will always be Kirk etc etc.

    Is it wrong for Ironhide to always be Ironhide? Prowl to be Prowl? Shouldn't Transformers be allowed to maintain character integrity just like every other fantasy property on the planet?
     
  2. Murasame

    Murasame CHIMICHANGAS

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    I'm wondering the same since I'm on this forums.
     
  3. nicoath

    nicoath Active Member

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    To some extent, I here what you're saying, and that would be pretty cool. They pretty much maintain certain characters and their traits (i.e. Optimus, Megatron, Bumblebee, Starscream) from one continuity to another but for all the G1 characters...it would be difficult. Certain characters didn't appear often and didn't even get enough spotlight in order to have a personality (obviously depending on the medium; comic, cartoon, etc.) to develop their character. In such a vast G1 universe, I'm not sure that would be feasable.
     
  4. ams

    ams Generation All Veteran

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    I think the challenge comes from a couple of factors:

    - Those characters don't exist in every iteration of TFs
    - Names have to be reused regularly, regardless of whether the traditional character is there
    - Alternate modes change from line to line, making it difficult for some to identify with that character as the "original"

    I'm not sure the comparison to X-Men, GIJoe, Batman, MoTU, or Star Trek works for TFs... they don't have to reset/refresh every year to the degree that TFs do.
     
  5. Single Elegant Machine

    Single Elegant Machine Purity and order.

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    Precisely, Transformers is first and foremost a toyline. Hasbro needs to continually reinvent the line in order to continue attracting fresh interest in the franchise.

    My feeling is that if they're going to constantly reinvent the series--while leaving the original G1 continuity concluded with Beast Machines--they should diverge a bit more from the stock plotline founded by G1. Heck, the Beast Era introduced mostly brand new characters and concepts--as opposed to rehashed aesthetics and personalities--arguably innovating the franchise far more than the subsequent continuities that followed it; all the while maintaining the G1 story canon that preceded it.

    I'd like Hasbro to be a bit more audacious and creative again.
     
  6. Wheeljack_Prime

    Wheeljack_Prime Don't eat me

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    In a G1 universe, yes, it needs to stay true. In a non-G1 universe, I am open to flexibility. I mean,They've created 5 very different universes (G1, RiD, UT, Movies, TFA) maybe six, depending on TF: Prime's exact nature. Refreshing the way they've been doing is something that has contributed to the long-term survival of the franchise, because it can keep things fresh. I don't mind that differs from other properties in that manner, that's what makes Transformers so distinct.
     
  7. chrisr291

    chrisr291 Master of the Unknown

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    I love G1 as much as the next guy but why throw the same characters down our throat. For example...

    RID Magnus Vs G1 Magnus Vs Animated Magnus- RID and Animated Magnus are MUCh better characters. RID is a hot head that would prefer to go out on his own. Animated is the strong, warrior type leader. G1 is... the guy who doesn't want to lead and would rather stand behind Rodimus Prime.

    G1 Blitzwing Vs. Animated Blitzwing- No contest, Animated all the way... with the 3 personalities, G1 can't even touch him. G1 Blitzwing is more of your tradition "Hey, i'm a bad guy..." and has zero charisma to him. Animated.. "I WILL CRUSH THE AUTOBOTS INTO SHEEEET METAL"

    G1 Megatron Vs. Animated Megatron Vs. Beast Wars Megatron- Now this is a hard comparison because I love all three but I'd have to go with BW Megatron.


    I guess what i'm trying to say is... the G1 80's cartoon characters are just not interesting enough because they have no individuality. Besides the season 1 and some of season 2 characters, we hardly knew anyone else. How many individual lines did the Terrorcons or predacons have? probably 3 or 4.

    I don't mind newer series taking a new stab at older characters because most of the time, they can do it better. With a few exceptions... like Movie Devastator...
     
  8. Fairlady_Z

    Fairlady_Z Official Voice of Flareup

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    YES! This is why I still support G1 and always will. And that is why TFA was so good, basic adherance to those core characters, but with the freedom to develop something new as well. In a universe of several hundreds of characters already exitsing it makes a lot more sense to me to try and revamp an old favorite vs cluttering up the universe with characters that just appear out of nowhere while the old ones are swept aside. Shouldn't we have learned this lesson already from TFTM.
     
  9. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

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    I don't think the comparison is really fair either. If GI Joe wants to use Duke again they can just change his costume to have Arctic Attack Duke or Night Mission Duke. The Spiderman lines are always giving Spider Man some new equipment to produce something like Deep Dive Spiderman. Even when the characters get different color costumes, equipment or whatever it's still Batman, Snake Eyes, Luke Skywalker, or Wolverine.

    Thanks to G1 though a change in colors for Transformers often means a different character since repaints were the easiest way for Hasbro to get more use out of a mold and produce more characters quickly.

    Plus it doesn't seem like the other series Transformers are being compared to get such radical remakes like Transformers. GI Joe A Real American Hero, Sigma Six, and Resolute didn't differ all that wildly, but there are big differences between Transformers, Beast Wars, Cybertron and Animated. Snake Eyes is still Snake Eyes in all the GI Joe series, but Transformers can vary wildly between series.
     
  10. Feralstorm

    Feralstorm I ship Nick & Judy TFW2005 Supporter

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    It depends on how you (or anyone) define 'character integrity' in context. How much visual consistency/homage and how much personality/role? Optimus/Convoy is fairly consistent across lots of continuities, "Prowl" or "Ironhide" much less so (either in look or character)

    Consistency or homage is great, but I enjoy when something totally new to the table too. Beast Wars took reused names like "Inferno" and "Silverbolt", and made something totally new, and as strong or stronger as characters.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2010
  11. Digilaut

    Digilaut My name is Drift.

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    I'm not tired of G1. I love G1, and if future series want to incorporate characters aking to G1 that's totally fine.

    It does slightly piss me off when a new character is created, or an old character is re-invented in a way that does not make him a copy of the G1 namesake, there are people pissing all over it.

    In every TF iteration there's always characters that look more like their old selves and characters that are only the same in name...and to me the fun part is that the characters that have this happened to them seem to be different from series to series. For example: movie Ironhide is alot like G1 Ironhide, just not in looks. Animated Ironhide is more like G1 Ironhide in looks, but not in character.

    I think Transformers is very different from most franchises. It refreshes itself every couple of years, and alot of character names have to be reused for copyright reasons. Except from a couple of names, like Optimus Prime and Megatron, most Transformers are totally expendable from a toy perspective, and even the big guys get fresh versions enough (especially Megatron).

    In short: I'm open to new things just as much as I love G1 nods.
     
  12. Valkysas

    Valkysas Attack Buffalo

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    I'm not tired of G1. I'm tired of people demanding everything should be G1.
     
  13. Shelfwarmercon

    Shelfwarmercon Well-Known Member

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    "Character integrity" within G1 itself is a choice between its print and television media. Ratbat the high-ranking bean counter, or Ratbat the cassette pet? Shockwave the Megatron loyalist, or Shockwave the coup plotter?
     
  14. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Dry built

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    Agreed. If it's not G1, go ahead, mix things up. Better that than more of the same.

    Though for the most part, Transformers has had character integrity intact. Bumblebee is always the younger Autobot, Ironhide's always been gruff and tough, Prowl's always the level-headed one, etc. They're variations to keep things interesting from series-to-series. Batman, X-men, etc. have all done it at one time. Transformers just does it more often because it's much more of a specific product-driven property (the mainline of toys) then those examples and consistently aimed at a younger audience, hence it's need to keep things new-ish from series-to-series.
     
  15. Nightrain

    Nightrain Senior Villain

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    I don't see a problem with filling in the blanks of past characters who weren't built much. If anything, I'd welcome every continuity adding something to each character instead of replacing personalities.

    All toy properties have to refresh. I'm not clear on why that necessitates Ironhide no longer being the original Ironhide, but instead an elephant or some doofus with a bad accent who's head sticks out in truck form.

    Also, I think it's silly to reject a character as not being the original based on alternate forms. The very spirit of the property is how they are able to change forms.

    He-Man and GI Joe are also primarily toy lines. So is TMNT if anyone wants to be honest about it. Yet they don't seem compelled to hack and slash the characters to make random new ones.

    Again, I'm not clear on why keeping things fresh must necessarily mean destroying previous characters to create new ones. And why other properties don't have to do it to keep things fresh.

    I personally view everyone in your list with the exception of beast Megatron as the same characters. The three Magnuses seem like the same character in different stages of life. RID = young, G1 = grown up, Ani = old. Blitzwing is a great example of a character who previously had no real personality, and Animated gave him one. There's nothing saying they must be different characters. Megatron? Same exact dude in G1 and Ani, just written more competently in Ani.

    Yep, exactly. Animated is the shining example of taking the original characters and building on them.

    But that's my point you see. In no way does a new TF have to differ wildly from the original stuff. I don't see anything wrong with Ironhide being a Topkick as long as he looks and acts like him. He does act like him, but looks nothing like him. Why was that necessary?

    They could have been perfectly strong characters with their own names. I just don't see the necessity in that.

    But my question is, why are they expendable when no other property treats their characters as expendable? Why is it so necessary?

    That's more about storyline than actual personalities. Ratbat not having a displayed personality in the cartoon doesn't necessarily contradict the comic.
     
  16. MACRAPTRON

    MACRAPTRON Well-Known Member

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    Hey, it happened before. It's called japanese G1, and it was awesome.

    The selling point of this franchise is - guess what - transforming robots. That's why you have over 400 G1 characters and only God knows how many different toys.
    I really don't think you need to rely on Optimus and Megatron to sell toys. This is no Mickey Mouse, no Superman.
     
  17. ams

    ams Generation All Veteran

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    Oh, I agree completely... I've just noticed a lot of fans seem to get very bent out of shape when someone's alt mode changes.
     
  18. ShyTenda

    ShyTenda Not even here...

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    I don't care either way. A straight-up homage, a similar character, an old name on a new character, or something entirely new, It's all fine with me.
     
  19. Paxtin

    Paxtin Why am I here?

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    Pretty much this.
    I love the nostalgia behind the original cartoon. But it is an outdated cartoon. There are some things that just don't stand to the test of time, so of course some elements will have to be reinvented.

    People will say this and that about character and what not, but in the end, what matters most to TF fans are the visuals. And unfortunately, this seems to be what many TF fans will never see eye to eye on.
    I've seen Plenty of G1 fans who hated TFA just as much as there are those of us who liked it.
     
  20. Shelfwarmercon

    Shelfwarmercon Well-Known Member

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    Aren't He-Man and TMNT where they are now because their updated versions weren't accepted as much as Transformers? As for G.I. Joe, didn't the movie versions stir some level of RUINED FOREVER feedback?



    I would say part of the reason is that G1 has such a huge roster of names and characters. Subsequent franchises only had enough room for fewer names. And it's not necessarily so much as Hasbro treating the characters as expendable, but more like making sure some other company doesn't get to use and keep those names. Names like Shockwave and Bumblebee were lost for several years because someone else got the rights to use them. And if Hasbro couldn't make room to reuse Shockwave and Bumblebee, what more for those third- and fourth-string characters who only appeared as toys, or as unnamed extras in an episode?


    I'm not sure if I agree with that. Where does one draw the distinction between a character's "personality" and "what role does he serve in the fiction"? One can say cartoon Ratbat's personality was a blank slate because he was used as little more than Soundwave's minion, but it's not unreasonable to see Ratbat's personality as being little more than a pet if you follow the cartoons more than the comic.

    The margins to define what makes a Transformer's "personality" are, in many cases, highly subjective. Some folks insist Soundwave has to always talk in a certain way, or that he should always have minions. Some folks shit on Universe 2.0 Ironhide and Ratchet because they don't turn into vans. Some folks prefer Shockwave as being a challenger to Megatron's supremacy.
     

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