A note on the vacuum of space.

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Zablorg, Mar 17, 2009.

  1. Zablorg

    Zablorg Well-Known Member

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    So you're sitting down watching Transformers, and it clicks; why is Megatron in stasis lock because of extreme cold? Isn't space that he was flying through for who knows how long a great deal colder? lol silly roberto

    And it would appear that the answer is no. As far as I understand the science behind it, there is no temperature loss or gain in space as such, because there is no air for it to transfer to. In theory, Megs should be around the same temperature in space as he was when he left Cybertron's atmosphere. It's possible that he would be getting even hotter as he fires those jets to change direction now and then.

    This fine with everyone?
     
  2. Astrocon

    Astrocon A spyware on Teletran-1

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    it's just a movie dude.
    There's no need to be so, scientific.

    Let the bay in you explotes: :bay 
     
  3. Simian

    Simian Biscuits and Gravy....???

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    Nope.


    Your are correct and you are incorrect. While there is a vacuum you are not considering radiant heat which does not heat the air but only surfaces.


    Think about this...An Astronaut has to be in an environmentaly controlled suit that keeps him from burning to a crisp when the sun hits him or from turning to an ice cube when not in the Suns path. For this same reason the space station is fitted with giant radiators that radiate the suns heat back into space because some surfaces become very hot.

    All forms of energy are light / heat. Basically waves and particles. Depending on the wave length of the light / heat is where you get the intensity of the radiation....Microwaves....we can't actually see the light energy but it's strong enough to cook your food. Gamma waves...again we cannot see them with our eyes...but you will be dead instantly if you experienced them.

    So you see just because space is a vacuum doesn't prevent surface temperature extremes.

    Also, This is why there are different methods of heating your home...forced air heat and radiant heat..Forced air you have your furnace wwith a blower which heats the air...Radiant heat would be like a Ceramic heater that glows red and heats surfaces which then in turn radiate heat back up into the room..That is why if you sit in front of a radiant heater you will definetly fill the warmth. Step away and your cold again.

    Thermodynamics 101 is over now...sorry for the long explanation.
     
  4. Alex5

    Alex5 No Broken

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    In the 'shade' it is extremely cold, in direct light extremely hot (no atmosphere to protect you from the sun). I'm sure someone can look up the exact details on wikipedia.
     
  5. Brenttoo

    Brenttoo Well-Known Member

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    I believe its explained that he enters 'stasis lock' because of the shock to his systems as a result in the sudden extreme change in termperature, not just the extreme cold. He's in such a hurry to grab the Allspark that he tears down straight through the atmosphere, building up so much heat that he's glowing white hot when he smacks down in the arctic circle. His heat and weight cause him to melt and break down through the ice and plunge into the icy water below, shocking him so harshly that he just shuts down.

    And theres nothing wrong with being science-y. If it helps sell the story, why the hell not?
     
  6. Recall

    Recall Player Select

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    Robots exist and transform - thats not realistic, this film blows!
     
  7. Jetcols

    Jetcols Elite Guard

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    Theres no sound in space, but the battles in Star Wars would be very boring if there was no sound. Its like a poetic license.
     
  8. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Dry built

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    I still mantain that it was the ice that froze him solid, and after a while the cold shut him down. (his vehicle mode would have internal heaters and coolents, but his robot mode wouldn't be as protected)

    There was a post, that went into detail, I can't find it, but Simian did a pretty good version.
     
  9. Poho

    Poho That's MISTER Poho to you

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    there is no moisture in space that can be turned into ice to freeze his joints up.
     
  10. VaderPrime1

    VaderPrime1 Prepare for termination!

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    This is right, and also he CRASH landed which took him offline (he was not awake while in the ice which is why he didn't escape). It is only when Archibald touched him that it activated his navigation system, not waking him.

    Also when S7 uses their nitrogen guns on bumblebee the moisture freezes, which imobilizes him, but he is still online because he didn't crash.

    So therefore Cybertronians can withstand the cold, but it is the freezing moisture that they can't withstand.
     
  11. vektsilver

    vektsilver Transorganic member

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    Best movie topic ever :) 

    the real plot hole is not the stasis lock from shock or the coldness of space or any such excuse trying to validate the movies deficits.

    How about they are trying to hack their boat out of the ICE that they are sailiing through and then suddenly they are somehow on land when the ground gives way lol.

    So who is going to say it first ( oh they just ran into groun or maybe they walked very far from the boat to land.

    Its fairly obvious they are diggin through ICE for their BOAT and some how when the ice gives way they are all of a sudden on land
     
  12. Hakudoushi

    Hakudoushi Well-Known Member

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    But Megatron's no found on land. He's found inside the ice.
     
  13. Bottom Out

    Bottom Out Well-Known Member

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    megatron isnt in statis lock because of the cold, hes in statis lock because of the ice....flying through space with no water on your body means no ice can build up meaning none of your gears can seize. When megatron landed on earth he landed in the snow causing it to melt and then freeze around his body. they keep him cold so that the ice doesnt melt. when megatron was freed in the movie you can see all the ice that breaks away from him
     
  14. Night Flame

    Night Flame TFW2005 Supporter

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    Serenity/Firefly wishes to have a word with you. Loud noises in space are annoying to the science geek in me.

    Also, it's amazing to me how many people can focus on the temperature in order to find fault with this particular bit of the movie, while so few seem to be able to remember the crucial component of ice outside of cold - water.
     
  15. OmegaVPrime

    OmegaVPrime Uhm, yea? So what?

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    Well during entry im sure any ice he had acumulated would have been burned off, much like a comit. But like prime said in the movie, he "crashed"....

    besides megatron is an asshole when it comes to aerodynamics..
     
  16. process

    process Hanlon's razor Veteran TFW2005 Supporter

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    While we're on the subject of explaining science fiction with science, what about quenching?

    Also, the first G1 episode. All it took was a big crash to knock everyone out for.. a few million years.
     
  17. Bgrngod

    Bgrngod Autocon

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    Megatron was frozen in the ice in bot-mode. It begs the question... did he try to fly in as a robot and not as a jet? Stupid Megatron... no wonder you crashed!

    Obviously he flew in, had some trouble, and transformed. Maybe he transformed to bot-mode right before landing (like he did in the movie while "landing" on the damn) but when he hit the ice he was super heated still and melted into it? At what point did he go offline? He had to have gone offline in bot-mode. Why would he transform from alt-mode to bot-mode AFTER having gone offline?

    The fact he is frozen in alt-mode suggests that he was "flash" frozen some how. Did he land during an Ice Age of some kind? Was it ever cold enough to instantly freeze a huge ass robot before he could transform and take off again? Was he just really REALLY low on power and struggled to escape before succumbing the the cold and going offline? Well, then how the hell is he suddenly charged up just fine when he breaks out of the damn?

    Plot holes are plot holes.

    The only explanation that really makes sense, to me, is that he flew in and landed in the arctic and turned to bot-mode. He had no choice but to land since the atmospheric weather was screwing with him, and he was probably low on power after having just made a long journey. Flying through a snow storm is probably what "trapped" him by beginning the process of super cooling him. Perhaps he didn't have enough juice to leave the immediate area once he landed, or the cold prevented his engines from working correctly. Having accidentally parked himself on a terrain of ice, he began to travel, on foot, to try and escape. But eventually the cold was just too much and it triggered his deactivation sequence. This could have happened pretty quickly, or taken a few hours or so. After that he was probably a big frozen statue for awhile as time took hold and slowly covered him with more and more snow that eventually turned into part of a giant iceberg.
     
  18. Shockscream

    Shockscream Chairman of Nerd Day

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    He crashed because he came in too hard and was running low on power. He transformed to robot mode but was forced to power-down due to the power issue. While he was recharging (btw, do we know what power core movie Megatron has?), the cold took hold and froze him up. All the while his power was slowly restoring -- enough energy was present for him to imprint the Allspark's location on Witwicky's glasses -- but he couldn't do anything because the ice and cold had caused him to seize up. When the pre-Sector 7 found him, they kept him cold and transferred him to the Hoover Dam where they continued to keep him cold and, thus, unable to move and function even though he was back up to full power.

    Bear in mind that, when Frenzy disable the cooling systems and Megatron escaped, he spoke in English without first downloading any information from the Internet. This indicates -- to me at least -- that he was fully conscious for the entirety of his incarceration. Maybe he was operating at a diminished capacity or something like that. I don't know. But even though it was the cold that was keeping him in place, it did not necessarily mean that he was in a complete shutdown.

    Additionally, the notion that he was still hearing and seeing all that was going on around him adds to the sense of threat to Megatron, don't you think? There's this being that is slowly brooding about his imprisonment for year after year. It makes me more afraid of him.

    And he did emerge from the cold very, very pissed off. "I am Megatron!" After decades of being called N.B.E.-1, I'd want to set them all straight too.
     
  19. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    Oooh, good question. Its entirely possible he has heat shielding like the space shuttle or similarly, some kind of ceramic coating where quenching / annealing wouldn't be a factor.

    Also, we're dealing with weird alien metallurgy light years beyond our own. I suppose its possible he was made of a metal that was able to dissipate heat quickly enough during entry or with a low enough thermal conductivity that it would retain heat and slowly give it off after the crash.

    Or maybe he's just made of a metal that has a ridiculously high annealing temperature, or one that doesn't go through a phase transformation through that temperature change.

    Or hell, maybe his armor panels are formed at such a geometry that they're cast as single crystals (or such that grain boundaries are precisely where they want them during solidification), in which case quenching would revert him back to his original form as well.

    Or maybe noone bothered to think about how quenching a white hot robot meteor into a glacier would affect his metallic parts.
     
  20. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

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    Just sum it up to having a really bad plot device for how the humans were able to hold on to Megatron for so long. I mean when you get thinking about it given his size vs the ships of that era they would have had to chip him out of the ice and sailed him back in a ship without advanced freezers and then found a freezer big enough to ship him to the dam or they would have had to leave him there until we had the tech to get a frozen Megatron to the dam.

    I think Animated did a better job of just having Megatron stuck until he could get repaired. Would have been a far simpler plot device to just have a damaged Megatron who gets repaired by some form of Decepticon medic than the whole silly ice thing.

    Also a good example of why I like spaceships better than the robots flying across space themselves since you can always say the ship protected them from cold, heat, space junk, comic rays and all the other dangers of space. Find a bad damaged Megatron in a small space ship then you can take the ship apart to learn how to build stuff and it gives you a way to look inside Megatron.

    I mean it also seemed sort of silly we learned to build everything in the modern world just by looking at the outside of Megatron. That would be like learning how to build a car if you couldn't open the hood, doors, or take the car apart to learn how it works.
     

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