A matter of gender perspective - Is Fox a bitch or a whistleblower?

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Ops_was_a_truck, May 27, 2010.

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Is she a bitch or is she a whistleblower?

  1. I don't care where she's coming from. TOTALLY a bitch.

    13 vote(s)
    18.3%
  2. I can see where she's coming from, but she's still kinda bitchy for doing it.

    22 vote(s)
    31.0%
  3. I can see where she's coming from but I'm not sure who I agree with

    18 vote(s)
    25.4%
  4. I sympathize with her. Good on her for calling out Bay on some Hollywood-excused sexism.

    18 vote(s)
    25.4%
  1. Ops_was_a_truck

    Ops_was_a_truck JOOOLIE ANDREWWWWWS!!!!!!

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    Let's, for a second, take the fact that Fox's acting is subpar and remove it from the context of this discussion.

    Now, let's instead focus on an issue that has been largely poo-poo'ed in any discussions that have occured about Fox's firing here, on TFW - the fact that Megan Fox called out Michael Bay for doing what would, honestly, border on sexual misconduct in any regular workplace.

    Here is an article written on Jezebel, a site whose second title is 'Celebrity, Sex and Fashion for Women' on Fox's departure (different camps will call it a firing vs. a willful decision to leave.)

    Megan Fox And The Consequences Of Speaking Out

    Now, look. One way or another, there is a prevailing fact here - Megan Fox spoke out against Michael Bay. The reports have been varied (he had her try on dresses in front of other actors/staff, he had her fake & bake to get that crispy orange tan, etc.) but the one fact remains - she called him out on it.

    The dominant perspective that I've gleaned from this site seems to be "Aw, FUCK THAT BITCH. If she can't handle the heat that's Michael Bay, she needs to get the hell out of the movie-making kitchen!" I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that that's largely a male perspective (as, again, I'm assuming most of the folks weighing in with this opinion are male.)

    ...but if we willingly remove the armchair machismo from the Fox vs. Bay issue, we're left with one unavoidable fact - Fox called Bay on what is, in any other workplace, usually considered sexual harrasssment. Does that make Megan Fox a "bitch," in your opinion, or an empowered woman who was intelligent enough to say "I'm not taking this bullshit?"
     
  2. Cryptwire

    Cryptwire Cybertronian Engineer/Sniper TFW2005 Supporter

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    my issue is that she is an employee and Bay is her boss and needs to work and cooperate well with others, especially her boss! it is such a waste. this is probably the final Transformers under Michael Bay and she couldn't at least hold it until late next year to bash Michael Bay if she wants to, after doing the movie and after collecting her massive paycheck. but i guess if she made a principled stand, that would've been a different story. but the only thing was, she was already on principal photography. Bay saw how she looked like, they met, comments were made, and the rest was history. but she came on set with the understanding that Bay wanted for her to put on weight and have a certain appearance. she was able to work with this in ROTF because it's practically the same issue that had Bay and Fox had their disagreement on. yet during that, Megan Fox was able to cooperate and work. what's different now? her getting "skin cancer" from getting too much tan (nevermind her entire body is now plastered with so much tattoos and she wasn't concerned of getting a disease then)? her getting too "orangey"? what's different now than in ROTF?

    so i choose the second option. i can understand where she's coming from, but something tells me she can be a bitch at times.
     
  3. chojin998

    chojin998 Well-Known Member

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    It's the boss Michael Bay at fault here anyway. Even if he got insulted no business man with a grain of salt would act so unprofessionally firing his lead actress that he created and he promoted and he gave her the key role of Mikaela Banes like this all of a sudden ordering a sudden script rewriting.
    It's just insane. You don't fire you main assets before having completed your first trilogy, the product that people worldwide now love and want to pay for.
    And replacing her with a topmodel it's really insulting the general public twice.
     
  4. Galvanitro

    Galvanitro Vanguardian

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    My answer. WHO the heck cares?! I"m tired of all this talk about Megan Fox. Tis tiring. What's going to be said that hasn't been already? The movie is still a year and a month out. We'll see what happens.
     
  5. Skeeve

    Skeeve Well-Known Member

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    I have no doubt that Megan can be a diva. I have no doubt that Bay can be chauvenistic. Multiple sources can back up both accusations. Neither one of them has behaved professionally in their public comments regarding each other as far as I'm concerned. But obviously, Bay has had a longer career in the industry, so his behavior is a lot harder to excuse. Also, he has ALL THE FREAKING POWER, so he should exercise at least a MODICRUM of responsibility. If Megan's story is true, then I guess she already left of her own free will, and good for her! She should make Bay pay the price for his behavior by inconveniencing and humiliating him as best as she can. If she doesn't do it herself, then there's no way she can convince others to take Bay to task as well.

    Shia LeBoeuff should do the same. crap or get off of the pot. Either act, and put enough effort into the role that you aren't ashamed of your work, no matter how bad the movie is, or quit and find something else. Don't apologize to the general public for an entire movie when you were only responsible for a small part of it. Yeah, we know your movies suck, Shia. Take a page from Ben Kingsely, and work hard no matter how terrible the movie around you is. Because if you can do that, then you really have nothing to apologize for.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2010
  6. Megatronwp38

    Megatronwp38 Megatron? Is that you!?!?

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    I agree with the OP. In my work place he would have been disiplined if she came to upper management with a complaint of that nature. Hollywood though? It seems to be how they DO business. Everyone has to be "perfect" physically.

    I feel for her because she IS a sex symbol and that's a tough role for someone so young , especially being thrown into the lime light of a blockbuster movie franchise.
     
  7. sneaker

    sneaker New Member

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    Neither directly its Paramount 150%, they should not have allowed it to go this far, Also partially Spielberg, he should know better, come on that crew letter on Bay's website is a clear case of harassment in the workplace if you talk to any lawyer
     
  8. Sso02V

    Sso02V Injector Has a Posse

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    All directors are assholes. It's the only way to get shit done in Hollywood.
     
  9. g1_fanatic

    g1_fanatic Well-Known Member

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  10. Skeeve

    Skeeve Well-Known Member

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    Not every director needs to be the camera guy from "Fame." That was Michael Bay's choice.
     
  11. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

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    The truth is going to be a hard thing to know because it's in some people's interest to say Fox was in the right while other people are better off saying that Bay was in the right.

    Putting aside who was actually right, yea I think it's a double standard. I just can't see one of the male star being let go because their weight was a few pounds off what a director wanted or their skin color wasn't the right tone. A young male star they will accommodate the costuming for the right look but a young female star has to accommodate the costumes instead.

    I also agree with Sneaker that Paramount the producers really should have stepped in before things got to this point. Instead of starting the positive buzz a year early to get people to forget about the last movie they end up with this huge storm that has dominated the news on a lot of media fronts. Instead of hey guys we are really working to get this one right the news is about a fight between the female star and the director.
     
  12. Leadfoot

    Leadfoot The Strongest.

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    You raise a good thought provoking point, but I keep coming back to the fact that this is simply not, as you said, any other workplace. A film director has every right to decide which look is appropriate for the stars of his films, as it is crucial to the film's tone.

    For example, Russell Crowe was required to go on a crash diet and lose 30 pounds for Robin Hood. My boss can't tell me to lose 30 pounds because I'm not playing Robin Hood in Robin Hood. A film set is obviously not like the places most of us work.

    Now, there is of course the unspoken point that the nature of the changes Michael Bay wanted Megan Fox to make may be pervcieved as sexist. Getting her to bronze and tan and pack some weight on to make her more full figured to some may seem sexist to some, but consider the nature of her character. The role calls for a sexy, healthy young woman. For Mikaela to look like Kate Moss after a 3 week cocaine bender is not feminist liberation, it is unhealthy and inappropriate to the film.
     
  13. Skeeve

    Skeeve Well-Known Member

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    What these choices do not communicate is the manner in which they are conveyed. If somebody told Crowe "Hey fatass, take a jog once in awhile." that's out of line. Likewise, if Bay said something like "Hey, what the hell happened to your tits? Eat a sandwich!" that's also out of line. Eff anybody who thinks directors get a free pass to be d-bags. Saying you don't know enough to judge is fine. Just don't say sexual harassment is ever excusable. And yes, you can call someone too skinny and still be a d*ck about it.
     
  14. Ceasar121

    Ceasar121 Wants a Toxitron repaint!

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    Bay is not required to be classy. First off, this would be the second time this issue has come up. Megan is an adult and she knows the requirements of her job. If I come in late one time, my boss may be civil about it. If it becomes a pattern detrimental to my job, he probably won't be so polite about it. Also consider if I was talking $hit to my coworkers about him IN HIS WORKPLACE, and he found out about it? And lastly, let's say I was making a million a year for this job.

    Megan knows part of her job is to be a sex symbol. Do you think strippers and lingerie models aren't told to keep their bodies in shape or risk being fired? You think vast sexism doesn't occur to them? If you don't want to be sexually harassed, the answer is simple... get a job where your body doesn't earn your money.
    Megan didn't put herself in a place to be treated with respect. Calling your boss names in public, and then reporting to work unprepared to do your job is a way to get cussed out, and ultimately fired. It's called insubordination. If Megan want's to look like she did, THAT'S HER RIGHT. But her looks are a requirement of her job, and she failed to meet them.

    Yes Bay was probably a d!ck about it. You avoid these situation by being professional, and Megan hasn't taken the high road, she stooped to Bay's level. So she lost her job. Whining about things you agreed to, on condition of employment, is the definition of bitching.

    If she had showed up to film Jennifer's Body weighing 200 pounds, after talking $hit about the director, what do you think would have happened? You think they would have said ok, we'll film with you fat? Hell, Bay hasn't trashed her in public like she did him. He was probably a d!ck to her in person, and then went through with his push to get her fired.

    She called dude Hitler. She likened him to one of histories most evil people. Calling somebody something so negative usually gets the same type of insult returned to you. It's called eye for an eye. You can downplay the Hitler comment all you want, but that's like me calling a black person an Uncle Tom... it's a common insult, but an insult none the less. Bay could have taken the high road, but if you just made someone a star, got them paid millions of dollars, and they called you something so negative, you just might start having it out for said person.
     
  15. Murasame

    Murasame CHIMICHANGAS

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    Actors aren't prostitutes. The director's cannot do what they want with their actors.
     
  16. Bumblethumper

    Bumblethumper old misery guts

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    ...drama like this reflects poorly on all involved.

    In reality it may be one more than the other, but all we have to go on is hearsay, gossip and speculation.

    Megan may be overreacting, or Bay may have really been pushing it, none of us were there. We all have different limits of what we'll put up with. Whatever it was may have just been the last straw. Sometimes you just have to say fuck it, no amount of money is worth this. Just one film was enough for Bruce Willis to decide he'd never work with Bay again.

    One person I can sympathise with here is Shia. For all his big talk about wanting to make a better film, the reality is he's caught up in it with two other individuals who just don't seem to care as much. This is all beyond his control.
     
  17. Cryptwire

    Cryptwire Cybertronian Engineer/Sniper TFW2005 Supporter

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    ^this

    ps. Megan Fox called Bay hitler and Bay is Jewish...
     
  18. CyclonuS_ZerO

    CyclonuS_ZerO Uni-con

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    She's replacable. It'll make for a more interesting story either way and keep it fresh for the human part of the movie.....which shouldn't even exist. I couldn't care less about the "actors" in this movie. I understand that humans are necessary for the story so we can relate and all that...but come on. I'm tired of actually giving a shit about human characters...last I checked the movie is called Transformers, not "Humans Being Followed Around by Transformers."
     
  19. Leadfoot

    Leadfoot The Strongest.

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    No one said they were prostitutes. No one asked Megan to have sex for money (that I know of), and directors absolutely can do what they want with their actors within the confines of their contract. Hence, Megan was not optioned for TF3. She did not comply with the demands of that particular role, and therefore was no longer qualified.

    All the name calling and blame game is very unprofessional. That's why you have heard practically nothing from Bay's camp. He's a professional.
     
  20. FanimusMaximus

    FanimusMaximus Well-Known Member

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    So Transformer fan are dealing with gender discussion now?
     

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