A Different Sequel to TF: Prime

Discussion in 'Transformers Cyberverse and Cartoon Discussion' started by RobotKnight95, Apr 10, 2018.

  1. YellowCorvette

    YellowCorvette Riko is still Best Girl

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    It seems like the producers behind the production of Prime doesn't have a good idea of how to spend the budget efficiently. I do think some of the producers has good intention of trying to make a decent cartoon; But even until now I have no idea of why they're so insist of using the budget in things like hiring superstars like Dwayne Johnson to voice some random character that only shows up to die, while the budget can be better spent on more relevant things like hiring more experienced writers. What makes it even more of weird choice from the producers is Dwayne Johnson isn't even all that great of an actor, and his performance is just forgettable.
     
  2. MatrixQuardeanUnlimited56

    MatrixQuardeanUnlimited56 TheDarkKnightAndTheQuardeanPraetorianKnightsmen

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    It wasn't the producers as much as it was Hasbro who didn't have a concrete clue on how to run TFP. Hasbro at the last second wanted an Aligned Continuity that spanned everything from the War For Cybertron Games to TFP and were insistent on it but the crews from High-Moon Studios and from TFP weren't keenly interested in having their Transformers projects and/or universes interacting with one another and tried to keep them separate from each other so that they both could do their own thing. But as usual Hasbro was extremely insistent on their ideas and in the end they had no choice but to comply with Hasbro's demands, much to their disappointment and/or anger. And so both crews had to change everything around, including the lore of the Binder Of Revelation, to make sure that the Aligned Continuity made sense to both Transformers fans and the general public and also in-verse to the Transformers universe that they were creating. Unfortunately, Hasbro wasn't satisfied with even that and went beyond everything including the lore as they also wanted to add in more characters such as the Predacons to boost more appeal towards the children demographic so that the show could be more appealing and sale well to both children and more so to the parents alike as Hasbro got letters of complaint from parents complaining that TFP was too dark for a Transformers television show. It even failed in Japan for one of these exact same reasons. And it even effected both Seasons 2 and 3 because they wanted their ideas implemented into the series at the last second and they didn't have any idea on what they wanted to do with the series and it even lead Hasbro to create Transformers Robots In Disguise 2015 so that they could get some of their losses from the TFP Toyline. TFP was a good show and could have been a great show had Hasbro had any concrete plan and/or plans outside of money making and knew what they were doing and/or thinking with TFP and the IP as a whole but as usual they don't so unfortunately the IP as well as Transformers Prime suffered because of idiotic decisions and that of Executive Meddling. As for having Transformers Prime come back to life I would personally like TFP and TFA and TFECV to come back to the forefront and for TFU to be made but Hasbro isn't keenly interested on revisiting the Aligned Continuity and/or any other previous Transformers storylines and/or universes and/or continuities so we'll have to hope that Transformers Cyberverse could reinvigorate the general audiences' interest in the Transformers brand.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2018
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  3. RobotKnight95

    RobotKnight95 Unamused and Insane

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    So to abridge your points in short; Both High Moon and the makers of Prime had their own visions for what they wanted to due with the brand but Hasbro forced them to install Aligned elements so there could be this big continuity in the pursuit of getting larger sales. How on earth continuity raises profit is an absolute mystery.

    Second is parents, both US and Japan, considered the show too "dark" for children so even if they had access to the show their parents wouldn't let them view them or were scared themselves fom the show's imagery.

    Not to be a downer but I think Prime serves as an example to fans that want a more "mature" series like the IDW comics in TV form is not a successful avenue. First being if kids can't or won't view it it will not last. As much as older fans think they hold the franchise up it's really the kids that do that. Second is if Hasbro can't sell toys from said show or if the toys sell poorly they are unlikely to carry on with similar ideas in future. Its why as of now future shows are very kid friendly and low-stakes.
     
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  4. Super4Ever

    Super4Ever Well-Known Member

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    I see mention of the show being too dark but where does this information come from exactly? There are much darker shows being aired in Japan, so I’m not sure I can just buy that information without some sort of proof. I don’t see what was so dark about the show.


    Also, i’m not surprised the toy line did terrible in Japan. They got rid of paint apps for stickers, truly an odd decision.
     
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  5. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Anthony Hopkins with a submachine gun. 'Nuff said!

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    Cliffjumper dying in the first five minutes wasn't dark?

    Not in the least if you understand Japanese culture right now. Ever heard of Gunpla? Gundam is fucking huge in Japan, inconcievably so, but you know what the main form of Gundams and all the robots from those series come in? Kits with stickers - and sometimes you have to paint them yourself for every last detail!

    [​IMG]

    Arms Micron was an attempt to move Transformers a bit in this direction, with the Microns themselves being constructed from sprues (which RID ended up doing with the armor for ITS mini cons) and stickers to encourage 'customization' of the figures.
     
  6. Super4Ever

    Super4Ever Well-Known Member

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    Cliffjumper was not the first character to die in a kids show, and that certainly doesn’t make the entire show dark. It was mature, but not necessarily dark. And it continued to win awards as a kids show in the United States.

    Also, Gundam has nothing to do with Japanese culture “right now”. Gundams and model kits have been popular in Japan for a very long time. I used to collect. Zoids, I’m well aware of the model kit fascination. However, Transformers isn’t Gundam. They tried to shoehorn in a concept that isn’t what the brand is known for. Especially TakaraTomy, who fans had previously looked to for more accurate paint apps. All in all, the entire line was a step in the wrong direction and the sales suffered for it. As I said, it was an odd decision, for Transformers. It works for Gundams, because that is what Gundams are about.
     
  7. Haywired

    Haywired Hakunamatatacon

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    Yeah, let's not compare level of complexity gunpla or other plastic scale models can reach with arms microns. The consumer base is different here, also very few people who are purchasing those kits are building them as-is without making their own improvements at least with their paintjobs. Model builders are model builders, toy collectors are toy collectors. There's some amount of overlapping with some people being both... But that's not a baseline.

    Also, just because someone's a model builder it doesn't mean they look for the same in TF figures. I've put together my own share of WWII and Antiquity stuff either for display or wargaming... But it doesn't mean that I'm purchasing TF figures with the same intent. Sure, I can fix a thing or two or maybe add detailing... But if I wanted a DIY model kit I wouldn't be purchasing from HasTak to begin with.

    Trumpeter, Tamiya or Zvezda they are not.
     
  8. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Anthony Hopkins with a submachine gun. 'Nuff said!

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    Awards mean nothing if the show fails to push the toyline. Which it failed to do spectacularly.

    And Cliffjumper's death was only an example of how dark the show got. The brutal executions of Vehicons when a simple bullet to the head would have sufficed (WHY did bulkhead rip out that one guy's guts?), Breakdown's torture, and whatever it was Arcee was whining about on a weekly basis.

    lol I'm sorry but what? Transformers has been doing this kind of stuff in Japan for ages - the entire line is handled differently outside of just the usual size classes as in the rest of the world. I bet you've never heard of the infamous "gum" toys, which exploit a loophole in Japanese law by selling (really crappy) gum along with a cheap, tiny version of a Transformers toy. Guess what that toy looks like right out of the box?

    [​IMG]

    And this is from 2012.

    If the line did so poorly then why did Hasbro essentially duplicate the "assembly" aspect with its mini-cons in RID?

    It's making Bandai money hand over fist with their Builders series though.

    At the same time, Takara's budget allowed them to not only produce more figures overall, but figures Hasbro couldn't and wouldn't produce - major figures like Breakdown (both normal with the Hammer and the Silasdown version with a retooled inner chest) and Unicron. Stickers suck - Breakdown's rear chrome bumper is the spawn of Satan I swear to god - but I'd rather suffer the stickers and get the physical figure of a character, then deal with Hasbro's shitty paint apps and get a crappy figure if there even is one at all.
     
  9. Haywired

    Haywired Hakunamatatacon

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    Because Japan (actually, Asia in general, it's really big in China too) also has a very large model builder culture and unlike the West where scale modeling is understood mostly as realistic and historical (with even huge franchises like Star Wars being looked down as "kiddy-fied") they also like fantasy and sci-fi subjects as much as other themes. The overlap is bigger there. It's not an accident that so many companies producing scale models and accessories come either from China or from Japan.

    However, expecting that it can be married with action figure format in the same set... Maybe if it was an entire action figure to be assembled, like chewing gum or gunpla kits. Or separately sold accessories. Not a half of the figure being your standard AF and then some DIY parts thrown in as an afterthought.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2018
  10. Super4Ever

    Super4Ever Well-Known Member

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    I didn’t mention awards in any relation to the toy line. You made that jump. I was referencing the fact that people are claiming that everyone thought the show was too dark, but it was winning awards as a kids show which seems to show the opposite.

    Again, you’re just mentioning moments on a show that, while maybe mature, aren’t necessarily dark. Look at a show like Power Rangers, where it’s actual people getting shot at or hit with blades and not giant robots. Even Rangers have died before. No one calls those Power Rangers dark, these are just more mature moments in a show. And also again, you’re just giving me examples from the show, not actually proof that parents around the world felt the show was too dark.

    Also, never said Transformers hasn’t done model kits. You seem to be missing the point I’m making. It was that a main line was stripped of its paint and replaced with stickers, which is not what’s expected and not in a good way. I never mentioned the Arms Microns build from the sprue aspect originally, you brought that up. I specifically mentioned the stickers. But also, again that wasn’t something you would expect from a main Transformers line.

    And the RiD line did not replicate Arms Micron with the Mini-cons. There were a few armor pieces that could be removed from a sprue and placed on the Mini, it wasn’t even necessary. You didn’t have to build the Mini-cons.

    And the stab at Hasbro isn’t really justified. The stickers weren’t what allowed Breakdown to be made. That’s silly. Hasbro felt those figures didn’t fit their price points correctly. Did using stickers suddenly allow Takara to develop a better Smokescreen? No, they released a cheap retool until another figure was made.
     
  11. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Anthony Hopkins with a submachine gun. 'Nuff said!

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    True, but you can't fault Takara for at least trying something new, since Transformers sales in Japan were flagging even before they introduced Arms Micron. It didn't work, but Takara's failed harder before (*cough*kiss players*cough*)

    And yet not ONE of those awards notably is for the quality of writing or storytelling.

    You honestly think parents would see Bulkhead ripping out a Vehicons guts and not call that dark? Please tell me more about how an episode of Power Rangers had a Ranger cut open the stomach of one of the generic enemies and rip its internal organs out.

    Are we talking Prime or Titans Return?

    Remind me what the biggest problem with the TR voyagers were again?

    You still had to remove parts from sprues - the mere fact you had to do that for any part of the toy is more than the usual. They could have just come pre-assembled.

    That doesn't change the fact Hasbro inexplicably never made a Voyager Breakdown of their own. Instead, we got Thundertron (who never appeared in the show), Cab-Over Ultra Magnus (who never appeared in the show), and Airachnid (the worst piece of shit sold at deluxe pricepoint in the past decade).
     
  12. Super4Ever

    Super4Ever Well-Known Member

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    Oh innovation is key, but as you said, model kits are nothing new in Japan. And the least said about Kiss Players the better.



    True. And I’m not saying the writing or storytelling is stellar. I’m saying people state on here that parents thought the story was too dark, but I have seen no proof of that anywhere.



    Guts? Come on, it’s a robot. You’re making it sound more graphic than it is. Robots get ripped apart on shows all the time. Most Power Rangers characters are organic, not robots. But you know what, even they explode. Not just the monsters, human characters too. The season of Time Force started with the red ranger getting killed in the first 3 minutes.



    Are you forgetting that you’re crossing an ocean here? Takara removed paint apps and instead used stickers. Usually Takara improves paint apps. Titans Return is a Hasbro series, and people were again upset about the use of stickers. And what did Takara do with those stickers? They removed them for their figures and produced better paint apps. If anything, you bringing up Titans Return just proves my point that Takara usually improves upon what is seen on a Hasbro figure, and in the case of the Prime figures they did not. It wasn’t until Power of the Primes and this new brand unification that we started seeing stickers on Takara products again, and this wasn’t something they did on their own.


    Right, but it certainly wasn’t inspired by the Arms Microns, it wasn’t the same. Add to the fact that as the RiD Mini-con line went on, the armor pieces were dropped.


    That absolutely skipped Breakdown. Thundertron was slated to appear. Who knows why the design for Ultra Magnus changed. And yes, Airachnid was terrible, but Takara didn’t fix her either. Again though, all I brought up was looking for proof parents thought Prime was dark and that it was odd that Takara went with stickers and not paint apps. Everything else you brought into this.
     
  13. Murasame

    Murasame CHIMICHANGAS

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    Incesticon sounds kinky :lol 
     
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  14. RobotKnight95

    RobotKnight95 Unamused and Insane

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    lol how did i miss that :lolol 

    Breakdown was skipped as his voyager toy was labelled "not cost effective". Most likely his figure had more parts going into him that the designers couldn't incorporate a Powerizer gimmick without jacking up his price. So because the toy designers were insisted on mechtech with lights thats why we never got Breakdown.

    Thundertron, and by proxy his Star Seekers, was suppose to appear in season 4 had the show lasted as long.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2018
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  15. Super4Ever

    Super4Ever Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I remember that was said about Breakdown, that he didn’t quite fit any of Hasbro’s price points.
     
  16. spiritprime

    spiritprime Dudes, I'm a girl!

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    I'm honestly having my fingers crossed for @grimmlock 's fan film sequel soon. Hopefully that will fix the mess that Hasbro left behind. Bless you.
     
  17. MatrixQuardeanUnlimited56

    MatrixQuardeanUnlimited56 TheDarkKnightAndTheQuardeanPraetorianKnightsmen

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    Marvel's MCU and/or Hasbro's TFCU and G.I.Joe Universe and/or DCComics' Dark Knight Trilogy. Enough said.



    Yeah and it doesn't help that TFP was also on the Hub Network, an exclusive channel that was only included in some TV Packages such as DirecTV and it barely had any commercials advertising any of their other shows, including TFP, and their network as a whole and not to also mention, TV was and/or is still dying out everywhere else and that everyone else's was/is going to streaming platforms such as Netflix and Hulu.

    Also that's isn't surprising and/or that's very hypocritical of parents to do, considering these are probably the same parents who watched IT and/or A Night On Elm Street when they were teenagers and/or who probably created and/or watched Death Note and/or Gundam and/or recently went to go see Deadpool II and/or Avenger's Infinity War.



    No, you aren't being a downer, just realistic. Also, a show such as TFP can in theory work if have everything planned out from the start without any complications and if its marketed to the right demographics and/or demographics, such as if Hasbro marketed TFP towards teenagers and/or TF Fans and TFRBots towards parents and children.

    Second, it's kinda of a combination of the two that keeps Transformers going, considering the fact and/or facts that some fans are an actuality parents who get their families and/or teenagers into Transformers and/or fans who buy Transformers' figurines such as the Masterpieces and/or Model Kits.

    Finally, it isn't that the TFP Toy-Line didn't sale well. It was more of the fact that the toys in general were atrociously made and/or weren't created good enough and/or it along with TFP wasn't marketed well and/or wasn't commercialized on enough to warrant any attraction to and/or from its audience and/or audiences on the basis that the product's fame and popularity would be enough to cash in on their investments' and/or schemes'. And corporations such as Hasbro and Cartoon Network are taking the easier and safer route and/or routes' because it's cost-effective and cheaper to use and/or create and/or cash in on.



    Considering the fact and/or facts that Japan didn't even market and/or commercialize TFP's Second and/or Third Seasons' and made and/or created a separate sequel named and called Transformers GO! towards Japan and also replaced most of their TFP Toy-Line there is susceptible and good claims towards these reasons. There's also the facts' that Japanese Transformers Shows has always had a kid friendly tone and/or tones inside of their shows for the last and/or past 30+(-) years kinda says it all.

    Also, considering the fact and/or facts' that Hasbro made and/or created Transformers Robots In Disguise 2015 which has and/or is basically a kiddiffied version of TFP towards both parents and/or children alike instead of more so marketing and/or commercializing on TFP's counterpart and/or counterparts' such as TFRBots kinda proves these claims true and provides further reason and/or reasons why TFRID2015 failed to reinvigorate and/or recrystallize and/or revirtualize further interest and/or interests' in Transformers' Aligned Continuity.



    Probably because Takara-Tomy pulled its remaining TF stocks from their shelves to avoid further economic bankruptcy and/or bankruptcies' from their TFP Toy-Lines and to my knowledge that hadn't and/or hasn't happen and/or happened before and/or since.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2018
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  18. DecepticusPrime

    DecepticusPrime End of Days

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    What exactly was the studio doing that pissed Hasbro off so much?
     
  19. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Anthony Hopkins with a submachine gun. 'Nuff said!

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    Basically going over budget constantly and not sticking to the elaborate story bible that they spent thousands of dollars making?
     
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