Fan Art: 3D modelling help needed- face design

Discussion in 'Creative General Discussion' started by Master Blaster, Mar 26, 2012.

  1. Master Blaster

    Master Blaster Banned

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    Hey guys, I've been sketching up a 3D model of a replacement Superion head for the RotF version for someone, it's going great! But I just can't do the face. I've had a crack sure, and will have another go tomorrow, but faces really aren't my thing...

    I've dropped a screenshot of how far I am. If anyone's particularly good with faces, now's the time to save me!
     

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    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 31, 2012
  2. Insane Galvatron

    Insane Galvatron is not insane. Really!

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    Faces have been the toughest thing for me. I can do it in Solidworks, but only because it's more user friendly than other programs. Some of the techniques I use in there could not be done in other programs. One of these days I'm gonna save up $4K to buy it with and quit using these student editions. lol Sorry, I guess I was really no help at all.
     
  3. Venksta

    Venksta Render Project Creations TFW2005 Supporter

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    Faces are definitely the hardest part to model on a TF, since they require some organic style modeling, which uses different techniques than building the rest of a TF figure/parts. The only thing I can advice you with is, just model what you can, and improve your skill over time. I think it took me 5 years until I could make decent TF faces. Now, most of my TF faces take about 5 minutes or so, and then just tweaking to get the "character" part right in my eyes.

    I guess one thing you can try is to get the shape of the face down first, and ignore the eyes, nose and mouth. Once you think the shape is right, then you can add in the main features and tweak them. Thats usually how I go about it.
     
  4. Master Blaster

    Master Blaster Banned

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    Yeah it's definitely no picnic! I had another go after posting and, while it's a good start, it's definitely too basic for this work. Gonna have to get some serious practise in, but imagine at least when I've got a template done I can resize and change details for future heads. Will definitely make things easier. I also redesigned some of the helmet, wasn't happy with how the top side looked all the way round.


    Any and all advice is always appreciated! Is there any kind of informational resource for this sort of work? I'm keen to learn, I've loved modelling stuff these last 8 months or so.

    I've attached a pic of my second attempt, a step in the right direction I think?
     

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  5. Treadshot A1

    Treadshot A1 Or just 'A1' for short...

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    You won't get it right. Sorry, but you just won't.

    I've currently got many robots designed, and not a single one has had a face where people go "hmm, that looks right". Every single one has been met with criticism. First they just looked stupid, then they needed tweaking, and it's getting to the stage where now they are just minor tweaks. It'll take some time. Just do what you can now, there's nothing any of us can do to help you other than to tell you what's wrong with each one so you know what to improve. I walked down the same road, and as painful as each criticism can be, it's the only way to get better.

    [/raining on parade]

    Edit: I should mention I've been working with Sketchup for 3 years now, and spent the last year focusing on modelling TFs, and I still feel that it could be better. Not that that's an especially optimistic point to bring up, but just for the record.
     
  6. Master Blaster

    Master Blaster Banned

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    Dude you need to think more positive, I hardly ever read anything positive from you. It's useless saying you just can't do it, when you should be saying I can get it right but I need to practise. I'm not looking for a perfect face first time, I'm looking to learn. Trial and error's all very well and good, but I seriously doubt that, for all the people who have ever modelled a 3D face (and there's some good ones out there), that nobody's ever thought about the process they go through in the design stage.

    What I need to is advice on what sort of things to look out for, techniques folks use to make them look more natural, maybe even a quick how to on setting up a basic structure. Venksta gives some solid advice (thanks man), that sorta stuff is helpful.

    (I've found the file for that hand I was doing a while back. Still need to finish the bloody thumb, but I'll get it done this week and test it etc).


    I tweaked the helmet again, it felt a bit too wide so slimmed it a mm and it looks better. I need to learn some more on adding depth to the face and such, maybe I should've got some books out of the university library before coming home for easter...
     

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  7. MACRAPTRON

    MACRAPTRON Well-Known Member

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    It depends.
    If you doing industrial stuff, then you'll have to master Solidworks or other CAD application and figure out all equations for every single curve you want in a TF face.

    If you're going the Shapeways route, just sculpt the face in Zbrush and use the decimation plugin. If you want more control over the shape, make a retopology out of the Zbrush model.

    But basically, all you need is to understand how each curve in the face behaves in the 3D space.

    Here's some stuff I've been working on in my free time. First I block everything in Zbrush, then export to 3DS Max, work on the measurements, then export it back to Zbrush to sculpt fine details.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  8. bellpeppers

    bellpeppers A Meat Popsicle

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    I think it was F/R that posted this once...

    when faces for Classics stuff is designed, very large sculpts are made out of clay or some other sculpting material- I think it was about 4x larger than the finished product. Then these scupts were scanned into a computer and scaled down for the figure.
     
  9. C2567

    C2567 Well-Known Member

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    I have both those programs and even with a student discount its EXTREMELY expensive so totally out of league unless your a thief or very rich (or a student/employee)

    I havent used sketchup so Im not sure but it must have basic poly modeling tools right? so just practise with basic curved shapes first then move onto faces
     
  10. Rodentus prime

    Rodentus prime Well-Known Member

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    When I've done faces in Sketchup I tend to make 3 angled planes and then cut the chin to shape from that, an early one -
    [​IMG]

    More recently I've been trying to take the line from cheekbone to chin a bit more to improve the shape.
    [​IMG]

    And another head example I think you're on the right track by having the nose mouth and chin in a flat plane and then working back from there - it just takes trial and error to get the shape looking ok.
     
  11. Venksta

    Venksta Render Project Creations TFW2005 Supporter

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    What Makato says, you guys should take to heart about modeling faces. He speaks the truth. :D  And you guys should study his wireframe and topology, as that will give you a good idea about what he mentioned about curves in 3d space as well.


    I want to pick your brain here. I've started learning Zbrush recently, and so far, haven't seen any reason it would be good starting on TF models, that I would finish in Softimage. Just curious what benefits you found? I am still early on in the learning process, so I expect you know way more of Zbrush than I do, and see some potentials that have not crossed my path yet. :)  I'd love to see a render of the Zbrush detailed model, if your cool with sharing. :) 
     
  12. Master Blaster

    Master Blaster Banned

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    Beautiful stuff guys! I'm a very visual learner, so these pictures speak volumes. Hopefully I should have a face of my own to show you all real soon! :D 
    Haven't read through all the replies just yet, have done another major redesign of the helmet. Moved away from the more square G1 design, towards a more angular, anime styled head. I pinched some design ques from that extended mosaic released a while back, the "War Journal" story. Happened to be reading it, figured why not.
    Will have a nice little break after the neck, a cuppa tea, and read these replies!


    Version 1 is near completion. Decided to do the easier of the two versions first- the cartoon styled, mouth plated Superion. Need to add details and finish the neck, but otherwise this first one's done!
    Being able to colour things in sketchup is pretty awesome. Never bothered with it before, but it really makes things easier to see.


    I'll probably take another crack at the face over the weekend, kinda need to do some university work tomorrow and friday. Will round off the cartoon style head tonight. The head measures in at roughly the same size as Superion Maximus' head, with the antennae being a little shorter than the antlers on him.
     

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  13. Venksta

    Venksta Render Project Creations TFW2005 Supporter

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    Heres a look at the wireframe for my Red Alert head. This was modeled for my upgrade kit. So some details are modeled differently, than I would do, if it were for only CG rendering and animation only.

    [​IMG]
     

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  14. Insane Galvatron

    Insane Galvatron is not insane. Really!

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    I'm working on a new project now, but haven't done the face yet. So I really don't have anything useful to share. My last two faces were so small, I could get away with minimal detail. My first attempt at a larger deluxe size head ( Slipstream head for Cyclonus mold ) didn't look anywhere near as good as others posted in this thread.
     
  15. Master Blaster

    Master Blaster Banned

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    I've just learned that sketchup refuses to render spheres smaller than 5mm in radius, kind've a bugger when you're shooting for a 3mm radius...
     
  16. Rodentus prime

    Rodentus prime Well-Known Member

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    Try making a 30mm sphere and then scaling it down by 0.1 - Sketchup doesn't like 'follow me' actions that result in tiny faces.
     
  17. Master Blaster

    Master Blaster Banned

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    Oh, so it can handle them then? How peculiar. Thanks man!

    Actual face Superion's coming along nicely, just need to decide how to frame the face within the helmet. There's a little left over room, since it's the same helmet as faceplate Superion and the face is obviously thinner.

    EDIT: Good work today! Face almost done, just need to add mouth and run watertightness checks. Pretty pleased with it, especially for my first go. Any criticisms are welcomed and appreciated :) 
     

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  18. Forgotten_Prime

    Forgotten_Prime Till All Are One

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    help

    hay. can you give me a starter 3d frame so that i can learn how to work this. im now using google sketchup8.
     
  19. Master Blaster

    Master Blaster Banned

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    I don't think anybody's going to want to do that I'm afraid. These heads take a fair few work hours to get to where they are as you seem them.

    I'll tell you what I did though.
    Take a head, any head of a tf you own that you like. Measure it up, find out it's basic size, then draw a block that size in sketchup. That's your starting square, it'll tell you how much space you have to work with.
    Then draw the basic geometry of the head into the space, start with simple blocks.
    I'd leave a square cut out of the front of the head where you can put the face later, it'll make things easier imo.
    When you're happy with the size and basic shape, add the details that make the head unique.
    With the helmet done, draw in the face. This is a whole other deal and I'm in no position to advise here to be honest. I've only just finished my first one! I can say you're going to want to pay attention to the chin line and the space behind the head in the head, ie where you're going to put the neck (ball joint or otherwise).

    I hope that's of some use to you.


    On that note, I think I've just finished the face for Superion head #2. I decided on a more classics styled mouth (ie static, robotic, non-expressionist) since it'll fit in better with where Superion'll be going when he's done.

    Comments? Criticisms? Advice? I'm fairly happy with how it looks, but I'm not sure whether I need to make mouth deeper.
     

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  20. Megatron31

    Megatron31 I Belong to Nobody!

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    This thread is awesome. As I have a lead. A cracked version of solidworks. Macraptron your heads might actually make me purchase Hercules.

    Master blaster you may won't to bring the face out of the helmet a little more. That side profile makes it look recessed to far. I think that will help the look alot. I'm jealous of you graphic design guys it makes my old school scratch building feel limited at times.
     

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