It's cool. Thanks for the reply, btw.

There's no insider loop. And it's not the individual characteristics that do it on their own. It's the package and context. Shoot..... I've had this discussion before. And it can get heated. And it's hard to explain if you're dead set on not seeing it.

Like I said.. I'm not someone walking around with a magnifying glass searching for racism where I can find it and then jumping and pointing at it like I've found gold.

This didn't take any searching. You gotta learn to see things from a different point of view. And from mine........ Mudflap and Skids just made me wince the entire time I saw them on screen. My friend who gets even less offended than myself was warned about Mud and Skids and he blew it off. Said people were being too sensitive. When they showed up, even he was like, "Oooh my god........ whoa.... wow...."

Just saying the offense doesn't come from nowhere, nor is it something I want to see or feel.

In my time, I've known folk of all walks of life talking like that, buuut...... hmmm... then I guess the Doctor could have been portraying someone who enjoys emulating crazy Nazi German doctors?

Weeellllll, the backgrounds aren't the same really. One...... has some history and the other is toy collecting.

Trust me, I've unfortunately had to deal with just being a person instead of a color for the better portion of my life. Pointing out why something like this would be offensive is NOT something I look forward to doing, nor do I keep an watchful eye out for it. And yeah, all America is doing a good job with growing up and beyond racial stuffnjunk, but I'm telling you... as an easy going guy with an even more easy going friend when it comes to this.... Mudflap and Skids is a step back while laughing.

I have mad hate for irritating comedy relief characters. So, I already hate them. On top of it, they had to be the worst portrayal (with big cartoony lips to boot!) of a negative black stereotype to be laughed at.

Just not cool.

I really wish they'd just put that time in to fleshing out Sideswipe and Arcee.

Alright.... time to crash.

Thanks for the reply and keep up the good work on the podcst.  

 

Thanks. And thanks for not taking anything I said personally. It's nice to be able to have discussions like this without it breaking into a flame war.

 

The Homicidal Prime discussion was priceless. So hard not to laugh on the train... Always love this podcast, but this was the best! It's killing me though, because I swear it only makes me wanna buy more toys. If nothing else I'm convinced I gotta have ROTF Leader Prime. Curse you sirs!

Anyway, can't wait to listen to the next one^^

 

I run a forum of my own, so I unfortunately know alllllll too well how much it sucks when people just can't have a conversation. No worries, big man.

Get in line, Van.... you speak to the man that walks the path of heaven and will rule over all.

I sent it in an email to Vangelus, but it's worth saying here... when you guys went in to the Murderer Prime rants, I was put in to tears laughing and had to turn the podcast off so that I could finish work.

Good job.  

 

Very impressed with the open-minded discussion on the twins. I definitely side very firmly in the camp that I don't believe the stereotypes were malicious, but yeah, duh, they were stereotypes. I don't really buy the argument that gangster culture is raceless because of the existence of non-black people co-opting the culture...because at the end of the day, that's what it is, co-opting black culture. I don't know about anybody else, but I wouldn't feel confident enough in a post-racial America to screech in ebonics three feet away from a black man, even today. Some people still find that behavior offensive or at least irritating because hey, it's people from another race cherry picking stereotypes from black culture (ebonics, thug life) and imitating them because they think it's all part of being "cool."

So you could say that there were a few extra degrees of separation in the stereotypes (robots imitating white people imitating black people vs. robots imitating black people) but trace that chain to the end, and it's still black stereotypes. And no, I don't think it's racist to recognize these stereotypes, because the wide-spread existence of wannabe ganstas imitating black people is proof enough of their existence.

 

Well sure. Statistically you’ll always have that.
I guess what I ment was those of us who do have criticisms, over outright rage, about the film generally seem to share the same or similar views on it.

 

Just heard this (sorry so late). Awesome podcast. Great and hilarious work covering the movie, especially the Wheelie discussion. Badass, guys, keep up the great work.

It's funny Gog, my thoughts were exactly like yours regarding the racism crap... This is from another thread.

 

Finally finished this one up, great discussion, guys and I concur with you Gog, that the Twins were not racist, just a stereotype. All dem kids be tawkin dat ways, of all ethnic backgrounds, I really don't find them offensive at all.

Could have used more Sideswipe, tho. Damn, he's good!











<

 

Same here. He's the only movie toy I bought!

 

ZOMG I was listening to episode 35 (for some reason) and Seth made a an assumption that was right too: Optimus driving off of stratosphere transforming and it being rad, and he did and it was

 

about the allspark shard - kitchen bots

here is my opinion

Remember...it was mentioned that all human tech was reversed engineered from Megatron in the first movie...
so when the allspark shard turns them into robots...they are inherently Decepticon .

 

i agree here. and i also think the other stereotypes were ridiculous-- wheelie, the doctor, jetfire, the deli guy, and the border patrol guy. all of it was low brow humor (along with some of the other human scenes) that was unnecessary. as i posted somewhere else, bay might not be the man for the job. he can make things go boom but the subtleties and nuanaces of a good director are lost on him.

that said, i def enjoyed the movie, and it got better with more viewings. the twins and bad humor offended me less, and i was able to focus more on the good parts. things i thought were awesome:

- as seth said, they nailed ravage in this movie.
- obvi forest fight scene
- killer prime-- i didn't mind his brutality.
- some of the emotional human scenes: sam talking to his dad about college, some of the back-and-forth between mikaela and sam, sam blowing up at leo, the mom telling the dad he has to let sam go (oh growing up metaphor), etc
- soundwave
- decepticon banter
- scenes with simmons (on the whole more funny this time around)
- optimus combining-- i was afraid of an anime style powerup and actually preferred the jetfire sacrifice. had it been done right (one line from optimus along the lines of "he sacrificed himself for us" and then he takes off), it woulda been more powerful

also, someone mentioned a parallel to the '86 movie and i can kinda see it too. prime dies after an epic battle in the beginning/middle, then the final battle is a little anti-climactic (rodimus v galvy, prime vs fallen and megs).

anyway, there's a lot more good than bad in the movie, but as you all pointed out, it certainly wasn't flawless. i say on the whole better than TF1, but certainly more controversial.

haha and i'm in the camp of those who want another movie supplemental. nice job

 

Decepticons are a faction, not a race.

 

^ this

 

ok...then tell me what to call them!!! XP

 

I remember the writers saying that was why the Mountain Dew bot etc were evil in the first movie. I think it was during a Q&A at Botcon.

 

spoilers

THIS IS MY SPOILER SECTION , IF YOUR VIEWING EXPERIENCE OF TRANSFORMERS REVENGE OF THE FALLEN WILL RUINED BY SPOILERS DONT READ MY POST!

Ravage should have kicked more ass.
Jetfire was scottish or irish ? I couldnt tell.
Tony Todd was awesome as the fallen!
I loved the combination of Jetfire and Optimus.
The matrix of leadership and the space references made sense.
Where were Hot Rod,Springer and Ultra Magnus?
"I RISE AND YOU HAVE FALLEN !" - OPTIMUS PRIME
Why didn't they have Soundwave do more than broadcast the wholetime?
I would have liked to have seen his robot mode.

I rant because i LOVED THIS MOVIE! I CANT WAIT TILL TF3!

 

Plus i want the G1 repaint set of Megatron,The Fallen and Soundwave.

When they come out. ToysRUS Here I COME!

Oh Yeah Devastator's wrecking balls were funny as hell and kind of "devastating" to kids as well . LOL