Also this, since I didn't see it when I quoted the last post.

 

This pertains to my post...how?

"Representation" of interstellar homosexual robots?
Is that a thing?
Wow. I didn't think my criticism of heavy politics, wink-and-nod dialogue, over-explanation of fake science, and the sexualization of fantastic made-up, (formerly) asexual robots would trigger someone.

 

You'll probably enjoy the work of a certain James Roberts, then, who has done more to develop storylines and concepts specifically around transformation and Cybertronian biology than any other writer in the franchise.

Unless, of course, "humans in cosplay" means characters that drink and crack jokes, and "giant transforming mechanical lifeforms" means characters who play basketball and occasionally drive to another location. Seems to be how these phrases are generally used in this forum.

 

I think that they may be referring to the pop culture references.

 

Possibly. If so, it's good to know that characters who deal with transplanted hands, reprogrammable brains and memories, a vital organ called a 'transformation cog', potential transformation addiction, bodyjacking, a Militant Monoform Movement, viral warfare based on transforming, spark extraction and spark transplants and a society where their function was determined by their alt mode, but who also make references to Community = humans in cosplay.

If only we could go back to the days of hardcore serious robots who eat 'energon goodies', visit dinosaur museums and fly around using jetpacks.

 

Roberts, for a time, was very good about walking right up to the edge on that cliff without jumping over. Lately (the past couple of years) he's been throwing himself from that cliff with the pop culture references. The references were okay back when they were done in smaller doses, but they got really annoying after a while. So I can understand Rodimus Prime's displeasure with some of that stuff - It did get to be a bit too much.

I'm going to 'say' it again because I say it all the time, but Roberts was fantastic about walking that line with the first 20 or so issues. He threw in references left and right; but it wasn't a subtraction, or it didn't break up the flow like it did later on. That stuff got BAD after a certain point.

 

so this is what, the ninetieth thread where we've had this stupid argument, and i'm yet to see a single poster be able to provide a single example of these "heavy handed preachy politics" that every thread inevitably devolves into carping about. It's almost like there's a certain sort of person who just... likes to fight on the internet. weird, hey?

anyway
While i'll absolutely concede that some of the storylines got a bit..... silly? [swearth, personality ticks, coff coff] ... i have a feeling that once it's finished and we've all had a little while away from it, it's going to feel a lot more coherent and well drawn than it does when we're dissecting every issue minutely every month. Not gonna go so far as to say it's flawless and obviously a lot is riding on how he lands it, but as an absolute minimum i think we're honestly going to be looking back on this in a decade or so as a timeless classic.
No art is flawless. No human can operate at 100% constantly. Show me any great work of art, especially one spanning years, and i'll show you the ways it fails to live up to the platonic ideals of it's conception - and in most cases arguably makes itself more resonant in doing so.

god damn i miss him already

 

If I explained what politics the book is advocating the post would be deleted and I would get an infraction because it's against the rules to talk about politics.

 

Completely agree. But the problem we're talking about here isn't really over-humanisation, or Roberts forgetting that these are alien robots - which some posters seem to like to imply on every Roberts-related thread. The problem is an excess of Robertsisms, a lack of restraint or editorial imposition.

Everything people seem to want from Transformers fiction - including those who are hugely critical of Roberts - is basically a toned-down Roberts. I just find it astonishing when people are like: "Great, I'm so fed up of MTMTE/Lost Light - why can't we have [description of MTMTE/Lost Light, but with some of the stylistic traits removed]."

 

This. Roberts writing really does beg to be read in binge where you can jump to the next chapter in a narrative flow. As someone who really had problems with some of the stories between 38 to 55, in regards to pacing and focus, I was surprised just how much more I liked those exact same issues when I went back and read the entire MtMtE run in prep for the then upcoming LL.

 

This is so much fun... You know our fandom is up there when a writer peacefully stepping away from it sparks massive arguments about which parts of the franchise iz betterz

 

I'll be sad to see him go. Even when he wasn't at his best (and no creative, anywhere, ever, is at their best 100% of the time) he was at least thought-provoking. When he *was* at his best - working with Nick Roche on Last Stand, or in Chaos Theory, or various issues of MTMTE/LL, it was the best the franchise has ever been.

Before he showed up, I would have been leery of loving relationships in TF stories, but Chromedome/Rewind has been a revelation, believable and sweet. After all if a species is intelligent and capable of four million years of hate, why not the opposite?

It's great that he gets to go out with a bang and finish his story. Interested to see where he pops up next.

 

Everything went off the rails after Elegant Chaos. Decepticons forever!

 

My absolute biggest problem with Roberts has always been the humour. In my opinion, he could never strike the right balance and it often came across as hamfisted and cringey, with almost every character reverting to wisecracking, observational comedian so as to up the jokey ante. I like the occasional humour in a TF comic, but Roberts needed a better editor to tell him to dial it back.

What he did really well (and I didn't really read much beyond #30, so I am mainly basing this on "season one") was some TERRIFIC plots and world-building. The obvious examples are the likes of "Shadowplay" but there were a couple of 1-2 part stories as well which were just fantastic. Take some of the poor attempts at humour out and they would be absolute classics.

It's the right time to get something new, though, so I am happy he is stepping back. Excited to see what's next!

It will be interesting to see how history judges Roberts' runs on MTMTE and Lost Light within the fandom. Only time will tell.

 

As an artist myself I can understand him. I just hope he doesn't take too long for it. My last hiatus started 2005. And for years I wanna start again and just can't find the right time. I'm always occupied. Even if it is by doing nothing. Hope he doesn't fall into the same trap.

I know how it feels having to take a break. But when creativity comes back and you don't let it out it's worse after some time.

 

No humans in cosplay, you say?

No idea where to find those:

 

Interesting thought. People talk about the issue of humanization between the three phase 2 writers (and they all did it) but the ongoing was and is widely seen as a highly problematic run, where the writer caused many issues because he admits to being unable to connect because he saw them as space robots.

Just intriguing to me to consider that vs the desire by some to reduce humanization.

I mean I take the view this have never really been written as anything but aliensarehumans in any media. Hell everything bar the g1 toon gives them teeth. Entirely for humanization. The alien nature, as it is with most soft sci-fi, is frequently shoved aside so the writer can either create familiar stories or comment on real world issues. I mean the Star Trek human alien hybrids are literally more biologically impossible that an species of alien robots have naturally occurring feamles and no one bats an eye. I'd argue people don’t become involved in soft sci-fi because they really want to see realistic alien concepts (we have hard sci-fi for that). They want characters as in any other media but with added weirdness

Random lunch thoughts.

 

Holy smokes are you salty over the G1 Cartoon. I make one comment pointing out that the user may not even be referring to gender or politics, and you immediately start throwing out strawmen and whataboutisms. You do realize that not everyone who has criticisms about Roberts or IDW are G1-purists, right? No matter how much it must shatter your carefully cultivated world-view, people can like or dislike various aspects from multiple continuities, and even be able to contextualize different media with regards to their time, place, and intended audience. I'm not even a big fan of the G1 Cartoon, but I can taste the salt from over here.

Well, the mods keep culling the thread so it's kind of pointless to say if one has or hasn't been made in it.  

 

yeah but when they say "no more overly humanising them" they mean "get these gays out my book! ahhhh!!!"

 

instead we'll just have thread after thread after tired thread of non-specific carping about it being the worst thing ever, and that's somehow both non-political and totally defensible.
seems legit.