Loosing your mind and believing yourself to be a giant robot that transforms into a truck and leads an army of alien robots sounds pretty severe to me

 

Yes I forgot about that one....Still its odd isnt it? From what they showed up to that point I mean. Probably one of those moments where they didnt pay attention to their own lore.

 

Actually I would have to say that you’re completely wrong and I think when I explain it you’ll agree

To begin with, you seem to be speaking as if there was a great deal of consistency here when there really wasn’t

Second you also seem to be under the impression that it was more common for them to not be able to link up or function with a missing part and you’re wrong there is well

There are two other incidents by the way that you forgot but I’ll get a to that in at minute after I review your earlier post

One you spoke of how the combaticons could not form bruticus with a missing part, which was true

You then spoke of how Devastator maintain his combined form with out his head, but was motionless......In which was incorrect as the body moved down to pick up hook and placed him on his own shoulders so he could become the head

Neither of those are consistent with each other, I then brought up how Defensor was able to function with a missing arm

None of those incidents are consistent with each other so to be honest with you it would seem that they were paying attention to their lore because each one was different and unlike the other

Now answer two other incidences, desertion of the Dinobot‘s part one, we get to see devastator function with a missing arm

And likewise five faces of darkness pt1 we get to see Menasour function also without an arm

 

In five faces of Darkness it was actually Devastator, but cudos because you were right.

Regarding consistency: I wouldnt say so. Yes these insidents did happen, but it could equally be randomness or something that they wanted to do.

All this is pointless however: The jist of the problem is: How the heck the mind of the combiner forms if there are missing parts from the team then?

 

Assuming the combiner still retains its core mind and personality then a missing component might actually be beneficial (assuming its not one of the legs or core body of course) since the combiner would have less minds which each need to agree on a course of action or decision so the gestalt can act more freely

 

Is that so? Or is it that it would be impossible to complete the merging? Or even result in reduced mental effectiveness? IDK really.

 

Anything that isn't removing your head and replacing it with a seperate guy I consider less severe.

 

Yes you’re right thank you

Yes well that’s kind of my point, you made a comment that the writers didn’t follow their own lore, And my point was that there really wasn’t any “lore” in this case just about every time something like that happened they handled it differently

Well the way I would see it considering what they did a few times would be that with the smarter combiners they tend to be a bit slower physically and intellectually with a missing part

For the dumber or not easily controlled likewise they are just that much more dumber and harder to control, Kind a like devastator went nuts when both groups were fighting for control over him

You know speaking of that episode I wonder how Optimus ethically made a decision to use machinery to brainwash devastator?

 

Don’t you see the inherent error in what you just posted?

If each member of the team, each mind in the combination, needs to agree on a course of action so that The combine to form can function, then the combiner requires each component to form his core mind and personality.

With a single part missing then there is a major part of his mind and personality missing

 

My view is informed by those old War Within comics, where the Protectobots engage in a "confunctional inter-lock," to combine into Defensor. The way I interpreted that bit of Techno-babble was that Hot Spot and his team had to be mentally in sync in order to function effectively as a combiner on the battlefield. If that was the case and the union of the Protectobots' processors is successful then Defensor would perform as expected, saving lives and all that, but if not, then the combiner would end up "dumb as post" and just duke it out with Devastator with little regard for collateral damage or friendly fire.

 

Technically it wasnt brainwashing but bringing him back to his self (although again technically Devastator himself didnt exist before Megatron fiddled with the Constructicons).

I am afraid I cant agree completely with that assesment. Devs went nuts not because of the missing limbs but because they litteraly fried his logic circuits from switching the controls. Plus the combiner mind is a merged minds. Meaning for it to appear it needs all the parts. How the heck does it merge whithout its components?

 

I believe that the mind of a combiner is the merging of all involved. If a component is in conflict with the others, it causes the mind of the combiner to dive into a simplified emotion. Hence why Menasor or Devastator tend to be more so used as weapons of destruction. The Predacons all focus on the hunt which makes Predaking so effective.

With a missing component, some of the aspects of the merged mind might be missing, but the combined form can still function. Defensor in The Ultimate Weapon without First Aid acted unified but noticabley handicapped. Devastator without Bonecrusher in FFoD was weakened to begin with being low on Energon, but there was something to pick up on. Bonecrusher says "Don't have the strength to hold on." This sounds to me as if the individuals have to focus their energy on merging to allow the combiner mind to be whole in addition to staying connected physically.

I will say, this topic has been a great one of discussion. I'll have to use it for my research for combiners.

 

“Technically” from the point of view of Optimus it was brainwashing

Remember he didn’t know the full origin of the constructicons until omega told him,

I never said he went nuts because of missing parts

I said that he might go nuts similar to how he went nuts in that episode, And by similar I mean the signals to his brains or being interrupted and messed with and a similar thing could be expected with one or a few missing components

I would say the evidence contradicts you would at least one way

It’s obvious that the body seems capable of merging with a missing part, or at least in most cases anyway

What would be an issue would be the merge mind , Which is what I said before about them being a bit nuts or dumber and not being able to function as adequately

And as we saw with Defensor, his personality seemed largely intact even with the missing component......So I think a simple way to think about it would be to think that each personality brings a separate part to the merge to min so I think a simple way to think about it would be to think that each personality brings a separate part to the merged mind

Hypothetical example
Hotspot.......courage
Grove.........compassion
Streetwise...resourcefulness
Blades........willpower
FirstAid....... stability

Without One the merged personality should still form and function But would be limited in its actions no different than when components can’t agree and then the combined form is not as effectively

 

I saw your first installment last night, I made a few comments I hope you don’t mind

 

Just pointing it out here; Since when has G1 been consistent with anything? The origin of the Constructicons has been given in several ways, and even Devastator's design tends to vary (Though that could be him deciding when he wants to wear his shades).

 

Never said it was the PoV of Optimus. It is just what happened. BTW thats another point for the "Optimus is an asshole, all hail Megatron", list.

Never said you did  

Possible, but not certain. After all those two are different cases. Thats what I am trying to say.

Most cases been not all cases, though. I am afraid we cant draw a general conclussion. But I admit those cases (where they functioned) do exist and seem to sugest that they can. However illogical it seems (to me at least).

As a broad assessment yes. It might work like that. Wouldnt explain why a supposed 'stable' combiner has obsessions (ala defensor) ofc. But that kinda is another kind of discussion.

 

I don't mind, but are you named something different on there?

 

I can agree that G1 has it always been consistent....

But it’s a bit of a misconception and misbelief that the constructicons were give several origins

If you would like me to explain let me know

What do you mean? Are you talking about the combiners as a label or do you mean the pronunciation of some of the names that you used?

 

seems that way

Sure look like you did with based on the rest of your post I see it differently now

I’m not surprised they could function and some limited ways

Obsessions? What do you mean?

 

Depends on the writer and demands of the plot.  

Personally, I tended to see combiner psyches as something like human corporations or teams/groups. The internal structures may vary, they may be more or less efficient or effective at getting things done, and sometimes the resulting actions of the groupthink are actually significantly different from the desires and goals of the individuals involved.

I'd like to see a gestalt team with a psychologist onboard, who analyses and tweaks the interconnections of the team members when they're combined, in order to produce a smoother mental integration and a psychological structure fine-tuned for the gestalt's role in the faction.