Transformers: Cameos In Disguise

Discussion in 'Transformers Earthspark and Cartoon Discussion' started by Nightrain, Oct 16, 2017.

  1. Nightrain

    Nightrain Senior Villain

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    Stop doing this, you lazy schmuck writers. Stop introducing a new character who runs around for a couple episodes and then has to leave because their planet needs them for some inexplicable reason.

    I don’t know where exactly this all started, but it was especially irritating in Prime. It seemed to be some kind of cheap writing gimmick to have someone show up, leave, then come back again(hey! Jacky’s back!!!) and make the episode about that because they’re too uncreative to come up with real stories.

    Now in the current one I hear about all these characters like Windblade, Jazz, Ratchet, Blurr etc who, I guess, showed up at some point. But when I watch a random episode they are no where to be seen.

    I’m not saying every character needs to be in every episode of course. But would it really kill the writers to give kids who supposedly buy all these toys to have a sense of, like, a growing team/family/army? Like even if some of them are just in the background sometimes. At least they would BE THERE.
     
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  2. Dropkick

    Dropkick Doktor

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    this.
    To many writers follow the "Limited Cast" strategy and if the character is not a drone builder, than that character will leave for some unexplicit reason, or just killed off.
    This was the case with Dreadwing.
    and Skyquake.
    And Downshift.
    And Cliffjumper.
    And MV Jazz.
    And RID2015 Jazz.
    And Ironhide.
    And Ratchet.
    And almost every S3 Character in Animated.
    And Blurr.
    And basically every Prime / RID character ever except the main cast.
     
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  3. Murasame

    Murasame 村雨

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    I also prefer bigger casts.
     
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  4. Windsweeper II

    Windsweeper II Banned

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    Yep. Time to end the five versus five era.
    I want to see stories about the Transformers again, instead of stories about a handfull of heroes hiding on earth for no good reason.
    Stories about a variety of characters so that you get the feeling that this really is a war instead of a scuffle.
    Stories that take place in various locations around the milk way with various civilisations.
     
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  5. Prime Noble

    Prime Noble Well-Known Member

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    Definitely prefer larger casts especially when the smaller casts have boring or unlikable characters.

    Bumblebee and Ratchet got boring quickly in Prime and I hated generic tough bot Bulkhead with his horrible design.

    Smokescreen was my favourite Autobot and he didn't come along until halfway through the second season.

    As for RID, though I like Sideswipe as a character, I hate his "hair". Grimlock is very annoying and just silly.

    Jazz was disappointing. They should have at least used his voice actor from Fall of Cybertron.

    Rescue Bots has the most likeable cast but it's aimed at toddlers.

    Reduce the humans time in all the series. Denny, the older Burnses and Jack are likeable but the kids are annoying know alls.

    Do cartoon execs ever research what kids actually think of the kid characters?

    I know as a kid, I had no interest in the human characters in Transformers and always hated the kid/sidekick characters like Snarf in Thundercats and Keshin from Defenders of the Earth.

    All I wanted, and still want, were good stories like in Marvel UK not silliness like Kremzeek or Alpha Trion.
     
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  6. I honestly hate Overlord

    I honestly hate Overlord I'm gay for Sunstreaker.

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    funny enough, Troy Baker was in the show, so he could've been able to do the voice for Jazz.
     
  7. Prime Noble

    Prime Noble Well-Known Member

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    That's a pity. He did a great job in Fall of Cybertron.

    Another missed voice opportunity like not using Peter Cullen for Ironhide in the movies and War for Cybertron games or not altering Frank Welker's voice in the movies to give us his proper, unparalleled G1 voice.
     
  8. Venixion

    Venixion Its always the middle of the night in Moonside

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    Eh, its sort of a tradition with tv shows.
     
  9. pilot00

    pilot00 Well-Known Member

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    Wait till you see the new show......
     
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  10. Jumacas

    Jumacas Banned

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    One more instance where G1 did it better than any successor, yet, most people still go on and on about all its mistakes and shortcomings. Inferiority complex over 9,000. And I don't even say this as an 80s kid, which I am not. G1 gave many solutions to the creative problems of how to write for the Transformers concept. But newer shows and many fans always go for a surface reading. If you look at G1 from a creative standpoint, bearing in mind that there was no precedent for how to depict and write exactly what the concept demanded, it's a gift that keeps on giving. Really, many lessons could have been taken. But who wants to learn and who wants to improve and strive for the best when there are enough sheep who'll buy into anything and support it religiously because of a fanboy mentality? Really, if you look at it from afar and from a creative standpoint, again, the franchise has made not a single step forward creatively since the end of the beast era. Nothing original, nothing daring and "new", as newer fans also go on and on about. It's either bits and pieces of G1 with additional arbitrary changes or ideas that G1 wisely chose to avoid. Essentially, striving to re-claim already claimed creative ground. Each of the problems the franchise has now has a solution in G1. Think about it. And that's not even a testament to G1 as a holy grail or anything. It's a testament of the lack of effort that is being put into this franchise in the last 10-15 years. Because morons buy anything anyway.
     
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  11. flamepanther

    flamepanther Interested, but not really

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    I dunno. It's been done since G1 (Skyfire). Beast Wars did it when Tigatron and Airazor decided not to live at the Maximal base. Animated did it constantly with the Dinobots and the Elite Guard. I can't think of a series that I'm sure hasn't done this. And while I find it really obnoxious, I can't say that it's worse than the G1 habit of having characters just show up out of nowhere or disappear for several episodes (or permanently) with no explanation at all. So while it would be really nice if Transformers would grow out of this, I don't think it's fair to single out any particular series for it.
     
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  12. BigRed

    BigRed Well-Known Member

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    Nah. People much smarter than you working out solutions from a place of experience instead of nerd rage have decided that smaller core casts are the best format not just for Transformers but for all cartoons around, period. You will struggle to find even a show like Batman Brave and the Bold keeping a big cast around. Hell what was that about "the episode is about them being back cuz they have no creativity!"? That did not even happen in Prime, and that IS a show that often lacked creativity in it's story set-ups. Even Wheeljack's first introductory episode was about an impostor in their ranks than Wheeljack himself existing.

    But hey, you get to look publicly delusional when you claim it's the fruit of laziness instead of story choices deemed and PROVED superior to those of a cynical 80s toy advertising schlock that kids fell for back in the day, good for you, but thankfully people that work on these things nowadays know better and do better.
     
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  13. kaijuguy19

    kaijuguy19 Keyblade Wielder

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    Not sure if going the route of how G1 did large casts would be the best way because they've had more characters sure but did a lot of them if not all of them had any real depth and distinct personality to them at all? From what I've heard not a lot so if they were to do it they need to be smart on how they handle it otherwise you'd end up with a lot of characters being either 2 dimensional or worse one dimensional. There's a reason why a series like Beast Wars had characters people praise and remember to this day because by having a smaller cast that they did eventually grew throughout its run they've actually had time for a lot of them if not all of them to develop them and give them more depth.
     
  14. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Be strong enough to be gentle

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    But G1 had scads of characters. At most RID would be adding, what, three or four new members? Would that really interfere with character development?

    Does there not exist a middle ground between the looney excess of characters in G1 and a team that never keeps members? Can the cast not simply grow gradually?

    Is this a real post?

    Probably because even if it got this "right" (which it didn't) that doesn't absolve it of its other flaws that drag the show overall down. Even bad shows have things they do well. Doesn't make them less bad.

    Nah, an inferiority complex would be if they constantly had to resort to petty insults and canned statements akin to:

    That's an inferiority complex if I ever saw one.

    Yeah, but what exactly? Can you give an example at all? Because all you did there is just restate the same thing over and over again without any specifics or detail. Everything you said there is a complete non sequitur.

    How did G1 offer a "creative" solution to this problem? By simply not explaining half the new characters that appeared and disappeared? By being so bloated in its cast hardly anyone recieved development or much beyond a token character monologue? Or that the writing was so bland and directionless even characters who did get an episode or two to themselves still came across entirely flat?

    G1's cartoon did the exact same thing, only instead of explaining why, say, Seaspray for example never did anything outside his two major appearances, they just forget about him. Because they didn't care about character continuity or the characters at all. It was the exact same thing as "I have to go back to my home planet now" only we're left to assume they're just sitting around at base in an unseen break room for months at a time.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2017
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  15. kaijuguy19

    kaijuguy19 Keyblade Wielder

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    I never said about not adding new members at all. I was just pointing out the why the G1 show did it was flawed and that you need to be smart about how to add new characters to a growing cast without going too far with it. I do agree about there being a middle ground. Maybe I wasn't clear about it when I did my last post.
     
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  16. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Be strong enough to be gentle

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    No you're totally right, I was just trying to bridge a middle ground using your post and worded it poorly.

    I'd honestly rather have a well-developed small group than a G1-sized army of nobodies with token character traits, but if that were the case I'd honestly prefer if the new characters just didn't show up to begin with until they were needed. The odd cameo character I'm fine with, there's certain entities in a show that while entertaining wouldn't fit as part of the core cast. (the Dinobots in G1 and TFA are a good example) But I don't see why, using RID as an example, can't simply introduce new team members and keep them.
     
  17. Nightrain

    Nightrain Senior Villain

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    Actually...yeah. Who invented this silly idea that every new toy needs some sort of grand explanation of where it came from in order to be allowed to show up in a cartoon?

    I never needed to know nor cared where exactly Seaspray came from or disappeared to. I don’t want a cartoon that is filled with origin stories. Stop with the origin stories. I don’t care. Just have a cartoon where a variety of robots do things every week.
     
  18. AirjitzuRonin

    AirjitzuRonin Member of the Bee Team

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    I don't mind cast size as long as the cast is well developed and other characters have reason to not be main. I feel like cast size is used as a way to complain about shows and it's just stupid. G1 has a large cast of underdeveloped, 1-dimensional bricks (only Omega Supreme, the Constructicons, Optimus, and Megatron developed. The Constructicons development is all over the place).

    It all depends on the execution. If you can tell a great story with a giant cast that's great. If you can use a really small cast, occasionally introducing characters who only appear for certain reasons and leave when no longer needed, possibly recurring, that's great too. G1 is a bad example though.
     
  19. Rumblestorm

    Rumblestorm Well-Known Member

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    A limited cast will help keep the series from feeling crowded and will allow more breathing space. Unless you plan on having more like 5 or 6 seasons (20+ episodes each), which no TF series has done (except Rescue Bots, but I won't be counting that as a main TF series), a limited cast is the best way to go.
     
  20. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Be strong enough to be gentle

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    Probably the old adage of "don't waste my time?"

    Not putting something into a story you don't have a purpose for is kind of screenwriting 101.

    That's fine for you, but most people actually do care about where characters actually, y'know, come from if they're not meant to be a natural occuring part of the setting. Which the TFs aren't. It's why the Dinobots always have to be "explained" somehow.

    Also, you say origin story as though a five second line of Optimus mentioning new Autobot recruits wouldn't be totally servicable. Or showing some (not even all) of these characters on Cybertron and meeting the existing cast. (even though later episodes show the new characters have been on Earth just as long as everyone else) Problem is there's no explanation, no development, and thus very few people actually care about the characters at all. It's called making a character more than a drawing and a single line of character specific dialogue. For as annoying as cameos like in RID can be, they're a damn sight better than nothing at all. The characters are actually treated with a measure of dignity when they show up or depart, because the writers know people like them and having them fade in and out of the show without explanation would be lazy and frustrating to those who actually care.

    And even if what you said is true, that G1 did it best by just not bothering to explain or show anything, that's still not a "creative" solution. It is the exact opposite, because no creative thought was put into it. I mean, just look at how many people in this thread are actually championing the limited casts' appeal. Because people would much rather have a small group of characters they care about and who have actual writing and effort put into them than dozens background grunts with the odd focus episode if they're lucky.
     
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