Beast machines theory thread

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by Blunderzag, Oct 11, 2017.

  1. Fenrys

    Fenrys Formerly Tigatron2002

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Posts:
    60,358
    News Credits:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    492
    Location:
    Virginia, United States
    Likes:
    +124,522
    megatron wasnt reformatted till the last episode, primal tried to force a reformat but megatron knocked him away before it could be completed. you are pretty much on point for rhinox though. once rhinoxs memories were resurfaced cheetor wanted rattrap to reprogram tankor into rhinox (essentially destroy the tankor shell program) but primal interfered and wouldnt let them saying it had to be tankors choice
     
  2. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2010
    Posts:
    11,053
    Trophy Points:
    312
    Location:
    The State of insanity.
    Likes:
    +4,151
    What the heck are you talking about? He stayed in the control harness because it was a CONTROL harness. He literally CONTROLLED everything on Cybertron including the Vehicons. He made the generals after that incident because as Optimus pointed out with his focus split on multiple targets he was having difficulty controlling everything all at once. The Vehicon generals taking control of some of the vehicon drones for him eliminated that problem.

    What lack of progress, he nearly wiped out an entire planet with the exception of four Maximals... well it was only four at the time. But I don't know how nearly wiping out the entire population of a planet equates to a lack of progress when your goal is to wipe out the entire population of a planet. That makes it sound like he just barely started rather than what was actually the case, being near complete.

    And how do we know that's Strika? Looks like just some generic Autobot, kinda looks like a slightly modified Elita-One... though with her proportions I'm kind of OK with that being G1 Strika. She's more of a body builder looking type than the much thinner Elita-One and I like that the head isn't anything like the Beast Machines design. But the body type does fit well with the character. I like it, but I kinda wish you liked me to actual page you found the picture rather than the picture itself I'd like to read more about the image and how this came to be known as G1 Strika.

    There are actually two other bots in that picture besides Strika and Glyph (The Female Bumblebee look a like). One of them all you can really see is an arm. And partially obstructed by Strika's right arm and the disembodied left arm there's a bot in the background that I can't really tell if male or female but maybe that could be Obsidian... or maybe Obsidian can be the disembodied left arm in the picture since I can't see enough of the character to tell if that's a male or female. Considering there relationship together in Beast Machines I just can't really picture them being too far apart hence my thinking that Obsidian could also be an unnamed bot in this picture.

    Well Animated Strika despite looking like a homage to Beast Machines is fine on her own because it's a different continuity, different rules. But the original Strika I can't picture without Obsidian given the characters that were established for that continuity.
     
  3. Fenrys

    Fenrys Formerly Tigatron2002

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Posts:
    60,358
    News Credits:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    492
    Location:
    Virginia, United States
    Likes:
    +124,522
    Strika (BM) - Transformers Wiki

    There is the page that image is from, specifically the retcon comes from a story called flames of yesterday
     
  4. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2010
    Posts:
    11,053
    Trophy Points:
    312
    Location:
    The State of insanity.
    Likes:
    +4,151
    It's actually both... Think about it this way. In Beast Wars transformations are never shown to happen because of changes in emotion. It wouldn't even make sense for Megatron to revert to Beast Mode because he's angry if he's still a Transmetal 2 because transformations don't work that way. They activate with a command code. Terrorize for robot mode and beast mode for... well beast mode it's kinda self explanatory. But in Beast Machines Megatron never uses these command codes.

    The technorganic bodies were established to work differently than previous forms. Instead of transforming with a command code, even though the maximals still ended up replacing Maximize with I am transformed, they had to keep a clear head in order to transform to robot mode. If they were feeling stressed, nervous, angry, ect they would revert back to beast mode. This is part of why it took so long for Rattrap to transform cause he's kind of a coward (his catch phrase we're all gonna die) He puts on a brave front in beast wars most of the time but it's pretty clear most of the time he's actually terrified and this really comes out in Beast Machines when his emotions get in the way of his ability to transform.

    Megatron transforming to beast mode because he's angry fits with the way technorganic transformations work, he can't maintain his robot mode in an overly emotional state just like the Maximals can't either. Though looking at it this way it makes it even more pathetic how long it took Rattrap to transform if you consider how quickly Megatron got back into that control harness after being forced into beast mode. Megatron really quickly regained his composure and got back into robot mode I think faster than any of the Maximals did. Most of them figured it out fairly quickly except for Rattrap but they were all stuck in beast mode for a while before they figured out Maximize wasn't going to work anymore. Megatron never even tried to call out Terrorize to get back into robot mode.

    You seriously think that the only reason he reverted to beast mode is because he was angry? That's only part of it, that wouldn't have worked if Optimus didn't reformat him first. Emotions don't control transformation in Beast Wars but they do in Beast Machines. If he wasn't reformatted that would just be really inconsistent to how his transformation works. Why does he transform like a technorganic if he was never reformatted into one?
     
  5. Fenrys

    Fenrys Formerly Tigatron2002

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Posts:
    60,358
    News Credits:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    492
    Location:
    Virginia, United States
    Likes:
    +124,522
    Him reverting to beast mode due to anger is a direct reference to his transmetal 2 figures bio
     
  6. PredaconElder

    PredaconElder Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2003
    Posts:
    2,284
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    312
    Likes:
    +469
    a) Bob Skir personally didn't agree with the 300 years after Rebirth placement of BW/BM in the Transformers timeline. Skir personally viewed the interregnum between G1 and BW/BM as happening much longer in order for the original cast to become legends to the current generation. To be fair apparently the original BW writers said they had come up with the 300 number before they knew about how long TFs live and were just trying to set on a date where most of the G1 cast were gone. Since most of the second season iirc was story edited by Skir (Isenberg did season 1 despite both sharing credit), Strika/Obsidian were probably in his view defenders of Cybertron between the end of G1 and the beginning of BW/BM.

    b) Strika and Obsidian being Decepticons was a fan theory back when BM aired. The people who wrote the idea into canon or had influence over those who actually did were largely part of the fandom during the era and basically got to canonize their own ideas similar to James Roberts on MTMTE.
     
  7. Fenrys

    Fenrys Formerly Tigatron2002

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Posts:
    60,358
    News Credits:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    492
    Location:
    Virginia, United States
    Likes:
    +124,522
    Another comment on the 300 year gap

    Nowhere is it said officially, as far as I’m aware, that beast wars is 300 years after the rebirth. What is said is that beast wars is 300 years after the Great War. If you remember there are at least two cybertronian wars during the course of g1, season 1/2/movie are one war officially ending with the autobots retaking cybertron and season 3 starts a new war. The Great War generally collectively refers to all the events that encompass g1, however remember that while the rebirth marked the beginning of a new golden age, it did not mark the end of the war. Therefore the war could have gone on for an undetermined amount of time and 300 years after that beast wars happens
     
  8. Verno

    Verno Beast Wars Collector

    Joined:
    May 31, 2009
    Posts:
    13,349
    News Credits:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    312
    Likes:
    +24,733
    Yeah, I like to think the Great War dragged on for a while longer after the events of Rebirth.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Fenrys

    Fenrys Formerly Tigatron2002

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Posts:
    60,358
    News Credits:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    492
    Location:
    Virginia, United States
    Likes:
    +124,522
    thats my feeling on it as well
     
  10. Verno

    Verno Beast Wars Collector

    Joined:
    May 31, 2009
    Posts:
    13,349
    News Credits:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    312
    Likes:
    +24,733
    The 300 year gap just doesn't seem like enough time for the monumental shifts that need to happen on Cybertron. Those shifts need to start within the Great War itself and then continue through the peacetime.
     
  11. Fenrys

    Fenrys Formerly Tigatron2002

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Posts:
    60,358
    News Credits:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    492
    Location:
    Virginia, United States
    Likes:
    +124,522
    Exactly. Honestly I kind of like idws modified timeline that has bw2 and neo taking place before beast wars and unicrons attack on cybertron in neo being the end of the Great War, then 300 years later is primals story
     
  12. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2010
    Posts:
    11,053
    Trophy Points:
    312
    Location:
    The State of insanity.
    Likes:
    +4,151
    And my point remains, why would they be Decepticons. How did that fan theory even come to be when nothing in the show suggests that would be the case. Their being defenders of Cybertron working for Megatron only because he controls Cybertron would make them Autobots not Decepticons.

    The idea of them being Decepticons totally ignores everything we know about them as characters. It makes me think whoever came up with that theory and canonized it never even watched the series. It's like the only thing they know about the characters is that they were villains in Beast Machines and that they were G1 characters so they came to the totally incorrect conclusion that they must be Decepticons. That's the only way I can see anyone coming to that conclusion.

    When you take into consideration that they were Cybertron's protectors that doesn't sound like Decepticons. The only reason they followed Megatron in Beast Machines is because he was in control of Cybertron at the time so they viewed protecting him being the same thing as protecting Cybertron. They weren't evil characters, Beast Machines never treated them like evil villains, they were good guys who's programming as protectors was manipulated for Megatron's benefit. That should be clear to anyone that actually watched the show. They had to of been Autobots before Megatron rebuilt them as Vehicons. Even though it was never directly mentioned which faction they were on during the great war it was always heavily implied that they were Autobots because the Maximals tried to join forces with them as allies when Megatron was thought to be dead. Why would they think that Obsidian and Strika would even consider joining them if they were always evil? That only makes sense if they were Autobots originally.

    I really wish the Decepticon thing hadn't of been made canon because it completely contradicts everything in the series regarding those two characters. It turns two interesting complex characters who were actually developed as good guys gone bad into just two boring generic villains.
     
  13. Fenrys

    Fenrys Formerly Tigatron2002

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Posts:
    60,358
    News Credits:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    492
    Location:
    Virginia, United States
    Likes:
    +124,522
    Pretty sure the only time either of them were ever decepticons was strika in animated, which is not canon to beast wars. Every other time they pop up in stories set in the g1/beast wars continuity (and it’s variations) they are portrayed as autobots
     
  14. Super4Ever

    Super4Ever Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2010
    Posts:
    1,108
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    232
    Likes:
    +1,431

    Straight up wrong. @SaberPrime when was the last time you actually watched Beast Wars/Machines? You constantly spread misinformation about these series that it almost seems dilberate.

    I went and watch Beast Machines Episode 2, Master of the House, just to make sure I was remembering correctly. Optimus Primal does not even make an effort to reformat Megatron before he Transforms into Beast Mode. Megatron is arguing with Primal while trying to control the Vehicons who are attacking the other Maximals. The Maximals aren’t going down easily enough, which begins to frustrate Megatron. Primal calls him out on this, stating that he’s having trouble being multiple places at once, and that he’s getting angry that he isn’t winning. The camera actually adds a red filter to the screen to show that Megatron’s rage is building as the control harness begins to disconnect from Megatron and he reverts to his Beast Mode. No reformatting, just a simple loss of control, something Megatron has not had to deal with in a while.

    Command codes mean nothing. Maximize and Terrorize were dropped and brought back all the time in Beast Wars. It does not prove your point further, and in fact is a useless arguement considering that no reformatting is ever shown on screen. Megatron failed to get rid of his Beast Mode initially, and that’s just the simple truth.

    Get your facts straight, watch the shows that you pretend to know so much about, and stop spreading misinformation all the time.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2017
    • Like Like x 3
  15. Dark Starscream

    Dark Starscream With Headmaster Cobra Commander

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2002
    Posts:
    2,689
    Trophy Points:
    312
    Likes:
    +5,127
    Actually, I think he just flew there. It took him over four million years to reach Cybertron. There was no time travel for Waspinator!
     
  16. Blunderzag

    Blunderzag Transform and Transcend

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2014
    Posts:
    1,188
    Trophy Points:
    242
    Likes:
    +1,580
    Possible
    Ive heard that theory too