Sure, it can be taken as given if you want lazy writing focused purely on plot devices, MacGuffins, and Mary Sues. But I like deeper fiction. We've seen the Predacons be tough going all the way back to the Costa days. For them to be hypnotized off-screen is absurd. I also don't think we've seen in-fiction (at least in the TF-prominent books--LL, OP, Revolution, Revolutionaries, or Rom vs. TF) claims that Rom is the greatest of the Space Knights.

 

Again, you use the fallacy of your own reading experience as universal. For readers who haven't read the Costa run, they might not have ever heard of the Predacons before. But all the necessary info is given on the page in Revolutionaries #4. You don't need to see their whole history to accept it when Kup says "these guys are bad news."

From ROM #6, third panel. Rom himself says that he is called the Greatest of the Space Knights.

 

You're making a really bad false equivalency. Yes, I suppose it's possible for an IDW Transformers reader to pick up Revolutionaries and not know who the Predacons are, but that would be the least of their problems. I'd bet that most people who pick up Revolutionaries are (i) Transformers fans, (ii) have some knowledge of Predacons, whether G1, BW, TF: Prime, or otherwise, and (iii) are familiar with some of IDW's arcs. The Preds haven't only appeared in Costa's run; they've appeared a bunch. For your average Transformers reader, they've been established. I don't need a throwaway line that they're bad news; they've been established as such. It's a show-don't-tell kind of thing.

As for your Rom quote, that's irrelevant because (i) he's saying it of himself in the heat of battle, so it's both a tell in the form of a bold battle cry but also a show because he actually does something about it, and (ii) it's not matter-of-factly stated as a proxy for actual good storytelling.

 

my opinion doesn't count as much as the tried and true transformres fans. i grew up on the tf uk comic, hama's g.i. joe:arah comic, both tf and joe cartoons, but i collected mostly joe toys as tf's were so expensive. i had grimlock, prowl, cliffjumper, and all the stunticons. i don't want transformers in the more grounded fantasy of larry's arah continuity but i'm starting to enjoy the shared universe use of the adventure team, iron klaw, sgt. savage, baron, and cobra (who were always my favorites-and despite my bothering the heck out of hama, he still won't use post-2000 specialty vipers, i hope the tf multi-verse continues embracing the best elements of it's new subplots and co-stars... but i still hate the shared universe joe revamp by that aubrey guy and his artist.
does idw ever try to get artists from outside the tf line? i'm thinking GEOFF SENIOR, WALT SIMONSON, MIKE GOLDEN from the original 12 issues of marvel's micronauts, SAL from themarvel ROM, etc.? i still wouldn't mind simon furman returning for a spotlight or mini-series as long as it didn't contradict continuity.

 

You're really discounting the G.I. Joe fans who picked up Revolutionaries because it was a book with a Joe in the cast, Joe villains, the Adventure Team, and don't give two shits about Transformers or who the Predacons are or what the hell Hearts of Steel is. Doctor X has been established. She's Europe's Greatest Supervillain. It doesn't need more establishing other than that caption.
As for the Rom quote, you literally said "it hasn't been established in fiction." This is not true. And no, it doesn't matter if it was established in his own series or in a book featuring TFs.

Sal Buscema is currently inking the backup story in the current ROM arc. But I think the reason why most of those artists aren't hired is because they're either A) more expensive than other artists or B) semi-retired.

 

that is awesome news. i know he's been drawing forever and might not feel up to drawing an entire story-but i hope the rom arc is dark and brooding like the old SCARY-ARSE sister wraiths when they killed everyone in clarington-including main characters. the alien from "ALIEN" and the "SISTER WRAITHS FROM ROM 47-steve ditko taking over". i'm in the minority but i have enjoyed every run of idw's transformers and if their entire arcs are republished in future "TRANSFORMERS: THE IDW COLLECTION... PHASE 3 OR WHATEVER" as i still feel the revamped joe comic is not the crown jewel of the hasbro shared universe. i feel all sister titles are tf titles starring a tf or two but also the entire sub-plot of these characters that , i believe, are, now, co-stars of the hard covered collections because transformers are the drown jewel all these other titles branched off from.

 

I love seeing conversations in this thread but most of it seem more suited for first strike?
Maybe we can keep it more on topic and focus on the ROM vs Transformers stuff?

 

It all started about what makes a good crossover.

 

Also isnt "Doctor X - Europe's greatest Supervillain!!!" Kind of...the joke? There are 30ft tall warbots who have been warbotting for a trillion fuckn years as a basic premise and Doctor X is this wondefully stylish idiot who turns up, everyone remarks on their European flavoured villainery and then we go back to the main plot of iunno, magic space lizards turning ninjas into cyborg ninjas or whatever.

X's thin and bathetic characterisation is part of the charm and jesus christ how is it that this joke needs so much explaining?

ANYWAY that above ROM art is pretty good ey, lets talk about ROM.

 

All that stuff about Europe’s greatest super villain or whatever is besides the point to me. The underlying problem (which I think the original poster of that criticism was getting at) for me at least is that the characters in the wider cross over stories seem ill-defined individually to someone like me who has little previous background in the other properties. There are so many that they don’t get much time and blur into one so I lose the thread from issue to issue, which is not great for such a fast paced book. I appreciate this won’t be an issue for others.

That’s where Rom vs Transformers really shines though- the focus is on a smaller cast of characters *and* the events in a true coupling. Because you get to know the characters better, when key events occur they mean more to you and strike home more effectively. I had little familiarity with Rom before this and arguably just came for the Transformers. But the strong characterisation here has led me to pick up the Rom series, which is great, because I have found out that that is pretty good as well.

Stardrive is an excellently drawn (literally!) character of sensitivity working through the contradiction of her upbringing versus her origins. Through her as our proxy (because we reach out to her in sympathy) we then get to critically assess elements of the Transformers war and the Solstar Order without the biases of each of those groups. I love that.

Not only do we have that element but we also have the more philosophical questions of global peace and governance prior to further space exploration. This is a subject I find fascinating especially in our current climate, and leads me to think about stuff like the dilemma of ‘lost’ local cultures in the struggle for globalisation, which I believe ultimately should be focused on freeing us from the fate of Earth. It’s heady and thoughtful stuff.

 

On a final unrelated note before it goes back to ROM vs TFs...


... Joe comic book fans in majority don't care about IDW modern Joe continuity. There's far, far much superior ARAH to read if you're a Joes fan. Sale numbers for both IDW G.I.Joe titles are proving more than enough.

That's probably the main reason why you don't see a big outcry about Hasbroverse character derailment for Colton - barely anyone who's a Joe fan gives any damn about this continuity since IDW managed to mutilate it even before the shared universe started.

So... You'd better skip this argument. It won't work.

You won't have crowds of Joe comic book fans storming bookstores to get a copy of the First Fail.

It started with what makes a good crossover because ROM vs TFs is a texbook example of a well-made one whilst it's contemporary coming from the same publisher is a prime example of a terrible one.

Unfortunately some people here took a real IDW-knight mantle upon themselves as if their life was depending on it.

 

On another note, I fear Stardrive may bite it at the end of this. No mention of her in the current Rom comics which you would have thought might happen when Rom encountered Cybertronians again if she was still around. It would make me sad if that was the case, but if we got a figure it might go some way to making up for it...Alex have a word with MMC, eh?  

 

I love "Shining Armor". The selection of the chosen characters are excellent, the story is exciting and interesting. Loved the interactions between the different alien races, the battles and discussions, the humour and of course...the art !

"Am I unusual?". Stardrive is a wonderful, very sympathetic (and pretty !!) new character to identify with (and always good for a surprise). Thoughtful, compassionate and tough at the same time. But probably also somewhat lonely. Maybe even more than she admits. I like this new character very much (I only wish that she will survive this series). Pleeease Starscream, be a gentleman, only once, don´t double-cross her...

God, Starscream...He is and always will be, my all-time favourite. But the way he treads organics...leaves a lot to be desired (you spiteful beast !). Grabbing this poor little guy like a fly or a mouse, and throwing him carelessly, like a piece of dirt and without batting an eyelid, over his shoulders. This was frightening and yet at the same time hilarious (not for the guy of course).

I think it's great that we can finally see/read how the Seekers (sadly without Skywarp and TC) operat and act together. Something you rarely see in the comics / television series. It wasn´t a lot, but I am satisfied. Unfortunately I was once again painfully reminded how much I miss Ramjet and Thrust (always these constant deaths).

The Dire Wraiths remind me of some oversized, vicious, and diabolic viruses / bacterias. A fatal plague, bouncing on all living beings, to destroy everything and everyone. Although I like their shapeshifting ability, but they are more than just unsympathetically to me (hardly to believe that this nice "CONS4EVA" is a Dire Wraith too).

Unfortunately I didn´t become a huge fan of Rom and the Space Knights, but it is quite possible that I will still grow fond of them (slowly).

There was so much to discover in this issue, so much has happened. Misunderstandings had to be clarified. Poor Sata, left behind..Again ! A somewhat embarrassed Bumblebee. A raging Dire Wraith/Autobot hybrid. A outrageous (as well as "companionable") Starscream. The disciplined/honourable Ultra Magnus (I wonder if it´s the "real" one) etc.

I am curious to see how this adventure will continue...and how it will end. Unfortunately, I have the unpleasant feeling that it does not end too well for some (the Xetaxxans, Ultra Magnus, Stardrive...?).

 

I think Stardive'll make it.

I think she may go rouge--abandoning both the Spaceknights and the Cybertronians in search of her own path.

She is a very moral character--and both of these groups are too bull-headed to see how the other side thinks.

I suspect she may remain on the ice planet as its gaurdian... ensuring that if any Dire Wraiths did survive, there will be a Spaceknight there to protect the inhabitants/prevent 'infection'.
Indeed, this path may be the only one that succeeds in convincing Livia that they need not annhilate this world.

 

Good idea. That would be a nice and fitting end.

 

Yeah, I think that'd be the most satisfying ending. I can't see her staying with the Space Knights into the modern day, but her dying would just be depressing.

 

Didn't have time to read this until yesterday...I'd say this book's winning streak keeps on going!

I loved the Transformers' 'interactions' with the locals - from Starscream casually throwing someone away (killing him?), to Bumblebee being Bumblebee, trying to help the locals - and the best one yet: Stardrive trying to help some people, only to fail miserably. It's a welcome change from the good guys always succeeding in securing the tiny organics, and the way it played out shows that it's not a given at all they end up safe, plus showing Stardrive simply made a mistake by trying to go after the Cons.

Alex brings his A-game: everything looks fricking gorgeous. Character actions and interactions are clear and exciting. Vehicle forms, the locals''culture'...it all lands. I'll echo that I miss your work on Lost Light, Alex, but your work is a very good fit for this Dire Wraith infested series.

The same way Scioli's Transformers vs GI Joe made me equally interested in the Joe side of that book (despite not caring about GI Joe in general), this book makes me interested enough in ROM and the Solstar Knights that their entire world and motivations don't feel like a distraction from Transformers at all. Will I pick up a ROM book? To be honest, probably not. But for this series it's a good fit.

So far this series deserves to be up there with stuff like the Wreckers books, imo. The premise is much simpler than Nick's stories, yes, but the way it's written and drawn here elevates it to a genuinely enjoyable, quality level.


Oh, and Stardrive still reminds me of RID Strongarm so much. Really wondering if she started out as that...

 

This book is especially good because we have mostly just good against bad and fighting scenes and great art. When I look at the Optimus Prime book... there's no one to like and no one to hate. It's just kinda there. Well, I liked most of the characters once, but the book made them boring.

 

Wait, you don't love Wreck-Gar?

 

man, sounds like, IF the hardcover tf collections continue, i have some bad arcs ahead of me. i just want the "events" to deepen our knowledge of transformers and if the plotting is good, i don't care if g.i. joe, rom, mask, whomever shows up as long as these sub-plots continue to progress tf continuity.