Please tell me. How can a company be in financial trouble when it doesn't pay royalties or licensing, doesn't have fixed overhead, knows the demand in advance for production, doesnt have big adminstrative salaries in employee overhead and produces luxury goods that have many substitutes but still sell like hotcakes?

 

Because mechanical tooling costs are in the tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars range, not to mention overhead from employee costs, warehouse fees, printed materials, web hosting, etc. Also, the 3P companies don't own their own factories like HasTak do, so there's probably service charges on top of that all. But primarily that first one. It takes quite a few units sold to simply break even, let alone turn a profit.

At the micro, consumer-level, fans too often get distracted by the little pricetag in front of them, and too easily miss the steps needed to make it to that point. Remember the old adage "It takes money to make money". That's especially true in the manufacturing industry.

 

Agreed.

A run of figure can be 500 pieces. Most runs are probably 1000-1500 and are profitable, but not exactly lucrative when the project is a 2 year process. Only the most successful molds are really financial success stories.

 

I always find these discussions fascinating.
A 500 piece run is generally a "limited edition" so runs are probably a bit higher than that, especially for big guy's like FansToys. Multiple runs of figures expand that further.
Staffing cost's are probably pretty low as most of these operations seem pretty small - a couple of "fans" who do it in their spare time or work in teams of only a couple of people (designers seem to often be contractors that get paid per design, not paid a salary) I always got the feeling that most people involved in the 3P industry have day jobs and this is a sideline. Very few actual full-time employees.
Using external factories means they pay a set fee for production, and don't have to worry about too many extraneous costs.They'll know in advance what moulding, production, materials, packing, shipping etc will cost as these will be part of the contract of work. There will be cost overruns of course but they shouldn't be major and an experienced group like Maketoys should know what to expect in that area.
Honestly, if they plan it out right, have other income (ie: a day job) to tide them over during the development period and budget and project manage properly, the main things that are likely to screw them over are
1) failures in QC (which is generally attributable back to the factory you hired and ideally should be covered by guarantees of quality clauses in the contract - though that may not be a thing in China?) or
2) a figure failing to sell.
Maketoys seem to do pretty well with their sales and have been around long enough to have a good handle on the whole process.

Having said all that, getting started is no doubt costly and you need a nice chunk of change to get yourself off the ground.
No 3p manufacturer has ever been willing to give us ANY idea of what the actual cost's of manufacturing these things are, and considering the array of cost's we've seen things going for (including super low prices like XTB's Stunticons and clearance sales) there's a lot of markup in the process and different levels of the supply chain are all taking a cut. I honestly think we'd all be surprised and a little shocked if we ever found out how little these things actually do cost to produce, and how much profit each level of the chain is skimming off the top. If XTB are at least breaking even on $45 Stunticons, and all the other levels in the chain are still getting their cut, there's a $40-$60 difference there?
100% speculation of course, I have zero actual info apart from what I've gleaned from posts here and elsewhere.

 

Well, when they tried to cast the ass in the final test shots it warped and they had to put a skirt back there to hide the deformed ass. Redesigning it would take new tooling fixtures and a more creative approach to the problem.

 

A lot of the estimates in this fashion are just spitballing based on hearsay and anecdotes. No company is going to publicly divulge the specifics of their financials, especially when the end consumer can easily get the wrong impression (remember the conversation in Big, where Tom Hanks says how the expensive RC car "only" costs the company 75 cents or whatever?).

Apocryphal at this point, with the old subforum having been lost/deleted, but when Aaron Archer used to host a Q&A here under the username "Orson", IIRC he dumped on us that the average Transformers deluxe tooling cost Hasbro about $1M per figure, factoring in all associated overhead. Obviously 3P don't deal in the volumes that Hasbro does or they'd never turn profit, but that rough figure still puts things into perspective.

 

Its fun to speculate. I suspect that the majority of the 3Ps are financially backed by investors who are looking for a little personal reward (I helped make a cool figure) and a return ($) on the investment. The profits likely get split back to the investors and I suspect little is actually held onto by the "company". I think there is an enormous amount of volativity in costs and scheduling. We've heard that factories have changed their estimates and didnt follow thru w commitments. These are factors that make it hard to gauge the actual costs. Multiple test shots occur before production. There have been many reports of screwed up molds and parts that have to be adjusted or fixed. These are all additional costs that are hard to factor into profit margins.

I suspect the real skimming is within the factory owners and distrubution channels. We've heard about Mr X strong arming companies. Its a shady business w many moving parts, unforeseen delays and changing costs. The only way to assess demand is thru pre-orders which presumably have dropped significantly due to consumer changes and those preorders wont do anything until final test shots have already been completed. Basically, AFTER the majority of costs have been payed.

So I dont believe this is overly profitable unless youre Keith who already owns the factory. Most of these projects and companies are out of fun/love rather than big $$$.

 

Because MT makes cool stuff but, sometimes their shit is too out there to fit in anywhere. There's never really any sales for them, unless it's in their own store.

At least they give out $6 parts for all their figures that WILL break.

 

Factories have fixed costs and have to take on projects with positive margins to be profitable and offset fixed costs. Designs are reasonably inexpensive. Molds and tooling may cost but they are tied to each projectm. Then there are other runs in other colors. It's crazy to think Maketoys is in trouble. As long as they break even or profit on each run, they will make a ton of money with a seeker mold. It's like 12 figures, some with minor retooling from the same few molds.

Where do you get your costs from? A mold made in China by Chinese companies for Chinese companies doesn't cost what we would be paying in another country with that domestic country's labor and material rates. Why is my phillips electric toothbrush sold at a profit in China for 25 usd and sold for 68 usd here. Yes there are middle men and other add on but you can sell it for what people are willing to pay. Pharmacy drug manufactures do this all the time. For the toothbrush, it's because it costs less than 25 to make but can be sold in different areas for different prices. They difference is they are selling it for prices in countries with higher rates and who are willing to pay more but producing it for their costs in countries with thriving manufacturing economies. We have g1 ko molds of toys long gone that get made and sold for profits all the time.

I don't agree with a lot of the comments above. We would not have so many 3p figures today if it costs as much as some people say and the margins we're that low. It's not like so many would rush in and risk losing their savings to produce plastic crack with so many others already on the street corners.


All this is to say Maketoys is not in financial duress. They may have other issues but it's not moneym. I'm sure they just want to keep things under wrap until they are ready. They will be fine if they embrace a happy mp style blend to cater to most.

 

Nah its obvious how the wings were constructed, you can see the exact same parts on the prototype that are missing on the test shot. Theirs about three per wing, fill in pieces glued in place to finish the wings on the proto. MT just left those fill in parts out. "Hollow wings" was never an accurate descriptor of what they did with his test shot.

So the wings are literally incomplete on the test shot. If that's how they remain then the final product can definitively be classified as having incomplete wings that were left as such purely for cost reasons no doubt. I hope that doesn't end up the case and I'll likely still be picking him up anyway as the other 90% of the figure seems fantastic. But will be a big shame such an obvious flaw may potentially remain purely for production cost reasons.

 

Agree with everything that Nighthawkblack said, except for this one line :
"they will make a ton of money with a seeker mold. It's like 12 figures, some with minor retooling from the same few molds."
The hope is that MT Seekers will sell well and be profitable through repaints and remoulds, but it's still heavy speculation at this point. Takara Seekers are practically stock standard in so many collections that it's still unknown if enough people will pick up on HM to justify the effort of additional versions. Even though the seekers use the same mouldings, you still have to pay for material, paint, production and all the other cost's, and Coneheads will require additional moulds for the unique parts on top.
The hope is that enough people want HM and his brothers for MT to go all out, but if Starscream, the permier character in this grouping, shelf warms, they won't bother pursuing the rest of the jets. Hopefully he does well.

 

I can't believe anyone remembers that reference.

 

Hopefully, Scream can use different faces for that gimmick.....

 

Some of us do.  

 

i am wondering if they newer proto pics are not complete and the finished product will have those panels in place on the back of the wings

 

That's why price was so important for this set. At the right price...and if they actually release all 3, these guys were a buy. At the wrong price, many people will only buy Starscream or skip them altogether. As it is for me, they're right on the edge...and only if they do all 3. The priced them about as high as they could where I'd still consider them...but probably only with an eBay flash sale.

 

I just put this picture together. I think they look very good beside one another!

 

So what happened? Is this project on hold for some reason?

 

It's supposedly out before tfcon next weekend or at tfcon but their other seeker took that spot.

 

Haven't been to this thread in a while, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were some KO people eyeing this mold up. It would be so easy to give him a new head, fill the wings, and sell lots due to the improvements.