Yeah, but hatred consuming you to where you become what you hate has been done to death as well (tho' admittedly under Roberts at his best would be a great read). I rather like the idea of Megatron confronting his demons/aiming for redemption. I just hope Roberts doesn't take an easy way out of this plot thread.

Edit: I should've quoted the post this is refferring to. I forgot this is a live thread right now. Usually, traffic's not heavy enough to warrant a quote you're posting just under the post you're referring to.  

 

Starting from the beginning via Furman's run would be your best bet. A lot of people hated on "All Hail Megatron" but that was the starting point that pulled me into reading TF comics and made me want to read the previous mini's. So I went back and bought the "-ations" chapters by Furman and individual Spotlight books. And don't forget about "Storm Bringer"!

Costa's run was forgettable IMO especially after Jame Robert's debut with "Last Stand of The Wreckers"! After that is was hard to take any of Costa's crap seriously. Oh and feel free to steer clear of that "Heart of Darkness" mini, even if it's free (That sh*t was IDW at it's worst).

After that are the 2 ongoing books RID and MTMTE started... I prefer Roberts (MTMTE) over Barber (RID) but Barber has a few good arcs and standout Annual books.

Most of this stuff is cheap on Comixology and Amazon via mobile and Tablet app. But if you want physical TPB's try Amazon or a local comic book store if they're reasonable.

 

Has it really?

Or should I say, has it more than the incredibly blunt and unremarkable "villain redemption" story?

And it's not about what has or hasn't been done to death. I never criticized anything for being unoriginal. It's what would work more in a story and give us the better character development. The notion that we should avoid perfectly servicable plotlines because they've "been done" is horsehockey because everything's been done. Just because it's original doesn't mean it'll work. It's why plotlines get repeated in fiction. A tool for every job, so to speak. Or rather, a path for every development, and I seriously believe this was the wrong path to go down.

 

Yeah and I'm not sure Hot Rod fits that's role. He's getting more childish by the minute. Maybe Terminus will be that but he's been in the background. Ravage was that sort of.
I like the idea of giving characters a chance to change for the better, but the punishment should fit the crime. The idea of putting a redemption seeking Megs on a ship full of Autobots makes for interesting stories, but there should be a payoff and more inner turmoil amongst the ranks and no just wiping the slate clean. Getaway mustache twirling felt too much like the Joker to Batman, Hahaha catch me if you can moment. But the Joker can getaway(no pun intended) with that crap because he makes up for it with serious consequences. I just keep waiting to see if they switch Megatron back and what little progress he has made with the audience will be now I'm going to kill your puppies you've been having adventures with in front of you, much like Overlord getting loose in the first season. The series is just meandering too much and needs to refocus.

 

I didn't say to avoid all plotlines of a particular type, I very much was typing what I myself preferred, which is the Megatron redemption story over the becoming what you fear story.

Further, by your own post, the Megatron redemption story could give us better character development for Megs as well as the story flip for Getaway could. It's really just your own preference, same as mine.

 

Wow, thanks! I'm gonna screenshot your post so I can reference it as I'm shopping lol

 

I'd say go read tfwiki pages on IDW Megatron and Optimus Prime first. This way you'd have an idea of what happened. Then pick whichever books that interest you. There're a few must read imo:

Megatron Origin
Last Stand of the Wreckers
Transformers Ongoing 21-23 (then read 24,26,28,30 recounts on tfwiki in order to connect with what's next)
Death of Optimus Prime
Punishment, Redemption
All of MTMTE & ExRid, Windblade (these are very recent and you prolly don't want to miss anything. IMO they are all worth reading, even if there's some bumps alone the road.)

Then, of course: TAAO, Lost Light and Optimus Prime

BTW, my absolute favorite is Punishment/Redemption (and likely the coming Salvation in June), i.e. The Dinobots Trilogy. This series captures the spirit of idw tf comics since phase two. They also answered some problems people had been debating here. Honestly, if nothing else, read LSotR and these. They are dark, but delightful, honestly among the very best comics I've read, regardless of fandoms.

 

Except it hasn't, because Megatron's development has been plodding and awkward ever since he first stepped foot on the Lost Light. His turn to good guy was way too sudden and absolute, and he was accepted into the crew far too smoothly and perfectly.

Thing is, Megatron can't be redeemed. Not the way they're doing it. He's just too evil and has done too much wrong, it's unrealistic that he's had the change of heart like he has, and there's no sense of self-awareness to it. He's become a completely different character with an altered history that doesn't jive with what he's actually done in IDW.

At least the Getaway plot would have to have some sort of development, either with the realization and regret over what he's done, or at least been a somewhat decent villain origin. At least he wouldn't be a villain charicature.

Hell, why not both? I feel like there could be this great dichotomy between Getaway's villainistic fall and Megatron's struggling redemtion. The two could've been an excellent contrast, but instead we needed "Personality ticks" and Swearth I guess.

 

Wow, it's kind of crazy to think that the cliffhanger effectively switched from "did the good guys die?" to "what happened to the betrayers?"

 

"I wanted a driven, funny, independent, ebullient, cheeky new character, with a unique set of skills.”

He doesn't think he's pretty much overpopulated the book with that kind of character?

Man, makes you really wonder how he really perceives his comic.

 

I think infiltration. But I would need to look it up to be sure. But I need to get dressed for work now. Check tfwiki.net for infiltration

 

I did say "could."

Megatron saw at the end of Dark Cybertron a great many things, enough to make him see the error of his ways. But from then forward, it's been kind of an uphill battle for him to really embrace his change and imo he's shown in the actual series various times where he's come to be challenged about that.

It's also funny that you say that he was accepted far too smoothly and perfectly when Whirl attacks within the first couple of pages (as a part of a larger scheme no less) of his coming aboard not to mention that his being on-board is the direct result of the current mutiny that was apparently planned some time ago. Just about every character at one point or another has made some kind of comment about Megs halting the trial/sentencing, not wanting him there, and reminding him of what he's "supposed" to be atoning for (quotes because one of the characters actually--Ratchet I think--said exactly like that, implying he's not getting it and probably never will).

"Megatron can't be redeemed."

Can't he? You say and believe that but the fact that we're having this conversation to begin with just shows the premise has promise and Megs whole arc is based on that exact idea.

Personally, I think it's unrealistic for him to be redeemed but I do think it's realistic, after everything he's done, to want to try.

What do you mean by altered history, though? I wasn't quite sure what you meant there.

When we catch up to the LL, we'll see if he ends up as a straight forward baddie with no depth or not.

Both would be excellent, I could go with that.

Sometimes, I just think the book (be it as MtMtE or LL) gets thrown off by the constant crossovers. I love MtMtE/LL but I'd be lying if I said it hasn't been the same since post-Dark Cybertron. It's still good and I love it but the pacing has been jacked up and I can't figure out if it's the crossovers, the renumbering thing as he mentioned, or editorial (which it also feels like).

 

Getaway is a Megatron Parallel. I think that is on what is justice, one of the big topics in the comics. And i agree with the point: Revenge is not Justice, not even a part of it. I once read that justice should be for the betterment of people, which includes stoping crimes, preventing future crimes and reforming those who went down the wrong path. Revenge is none of that. Punishment is another thing, because it can serve two purpose: 1. to reform people 2. to deter future crimes. But seriously, it is only useful to deter lesser crimes/wrongdoings, like a fine for parking in the wrong place. I don't think someone like Megatron would be deterred by, say, even death sentence, and deliberate torture should never be lawful.

If someone, even the likes of Megatron, really wanted to change, even for all his crimes, I'd vote give him another chance. Only when someone who refuse to stop posing as a threat to others, and when there is no other way, should that person be put down, and that is for practical reason. So if Megatron was killed during the war, that would be just, but not now when he had reformed.

 

I believe Getaway will be given a second chance when Rodimus catches him. Actually, we don't even need to wait for that. I don't understand why anyone would say that Getaway is without depth... Getaway who got thrown into the battlefield as basically an "infant", who talked about later gen MTO never got proper education, who JRo intended people to hate or side with? He already has plenty of depth right now.

That said, I too feel as if MTMTE/LL's handling of Megatron's redemption is not entirely satisfactory. It is mostly very good, makes a lot of sense, but just... a bit lacking in some aspect. Some said it was because different aspects of Megatron's character clashed without enough explanation, but I don't think so. These traits are not real contradictions, no real paradox in his personality development. But today I finally realized what it is that feels lacking: Shame!

I do not mean others shaming Megatron, that is not the problem here, but Megatron's own shame. Think about it: he just confronted how horrible he was during the war, how many death and pain he had caused. Shouldn't shame be a natural and strong reaction? Even a Major reaction? Especially since Megatron was supposed to take his responsibilities very seriously? But we didn't see much of his shame, only hints. And his speech recently sounded a bit too self-satisfied. It just doesn't sit right. Shouldn't he show some of his regrets and shame, alone with his determination to do the right thing? Even if he was very good at hiding it, shouldn't he be at least more reserved?

That is what feels unreal to me.

 

I don't think any mortal person can judge anyone irredeemable. Whether a person has the potential to change for the better speaks to the fundamental values of their life, if not of humanity, and I don't think anyone has enough knowledge or authority to judge that. Besides, Megatron did not become a completely different character. He still did all the bad. Consequences like DJD was thrown in his face. It is just explained now how he became that bad. Being a person and doing horrible acts do not contradict each other. His character development makes a lot of senses to me. Much more senses than someone who is evil beyond reason.

We often need a larger than life representation of evil for us to feel conformable. But what even is evil? There is no such a thing that is evil itself. It's an umbrella concept that is too often taken at face value, almost magical, as if "evilness" can be used as an explaination. Every single person who became "evil" has a reason to be like that. There is no one who is magically just evil. I'm glad Megatron is no longer a symbol of such a detrimental concept.

 

Yes - I can't really think of a single time they soft-rebooted the continuity in a way that didn't involve carrying over major plot threads, and this latest one is the worst attempt yet. 'Optimus Prime' is surely incomprehensible as a jumping-on point - every other page involves a new rollcall of characters with invisible plot baggage, and the relationship between Autobots, humans, Decepticons and Colonists is complex to say the least.

Then you have Lost Light beginning on the resolution to a cliffhanger from More Than Meets The Eye and immediately booting half its cast into a parallel universe whose rules were set up in that previous series, and loads of characters just hanging around in the background.

I don't think it's quite that bad. For one thing, it's good storytelling practice to let characters move into supporting roles once their plot arc is completed, unless you have something new lined up for them. I actually think Roberts' writing suffers from the opposite problem - keeping around his popular characters without giving them anything much to do.

As for Anode, it's true that Roberts' description here doesn't make her stand out at all, but that might be a form of mid-interview inarticulacy. We all know Roberts' real strength in his character work, with a couple of exceptions, is in teasing out their history and the decisions they've made and will make. That's what makes them worth reading about. Only Whirl, Magnus and possible Swerve are enjoyable simply because of their personalities, or 'presence'. So to explain what makes Anode necessary at this juncture would be to give the game away, assuming there *is* more to her than the attitude.

Same position, overall. Great writers need great editors.

I think you're going rather too far here. Remember you're quoting a poster who also wants to see Perceptor and Blaster get comeuppance, and I don't think that's likely. The person you're replying to is well toward the extreme end of anti-Getaway reaction - plenty of us on the boards see his side of it as well, and I really don't think he fits the form of other Roberts villains. I hope and expect that we'll get more out of this than a revenge narrative.

 

Maybe instead of "the fans" I should've just said "fans" to not be so general towards eveyrone who likes MTMTE/LL, as I am well aware there are those who are less extreme.

 

1. that fucking sucks
2. here's hoping
3. preaching to the choir

 

Simple:

Getaway sets himself up as 'the autobot doing what needs to be done'. Defends proclaim "Look at how evil Megatron is! Getaway is getting rid of a murderer! He is killing a monster! What's wrong with that?" And frankly I'd have no problem with that...

...if he'd done it himself.

Had Getaway gotten close to Megatron, acted as his friend, only to then stage the attack him in hopes of getting Megatron killed, knowing he would die in the process and be a martyr, I'd have no issues. Because he did the deed himself. He died for his cause. And frankly everything after that could still work in the story (he survives but is punished, betrays his friend Skids, so on). But he didn't do that, did he? Getaway instead took an innocent... someone who hadn't even fought in the war... and happily lied to him, seduced him, and sent him to his death. Because Getaway is a coward. He hides behind "I am such a hero! I do what others can't!" except it is real easy to claim that when you don't suffer the punishment.

There is an episode of MASH where they deal with this general. he is a big hero, always getting medals, a real legend. But Hawkeye discovers this guy sends his troops against the enemy in a needless battle for a spot of land that doesn't matter... just so he can report how he fought the good fight despite heavy loses (he caused), captured another spot of land, and he'd like another award please. He isn't the one shot at. He isn't the one dying. He sacrifices NOTHING... but claims he is the hero.

The same with Getaway. If he truly... truly believed in the cause, believed Megatron was evil and had to be stopped and was willing to do anything... he'd have strapped on that glove himself and done it. But he didn't, did he? Because like all good hollow-voiced, weak-willed, cowardly 'patriots' that beat their chest but scurry away and let others die in the name of THEIR VALUES... he didn't really believe in the cause. Not enough to risk himself, now did he? No... what he truly saw was a way to selfishly get what he wanted without sacrificing a damn thing.

Kill the little guy. Get the victory. Thank you, thank you, please worship me.



As for the crew itself... I detest them for a simple reason: If you were so mad about Megatron, so mad about Rodimus... get... off...the...damn... ship.

They were drydocked in Cybertron. Plenty of time to leave. There were bots who did. Hell, there are bots who left in SHUTTLES. Red Alert left while they were flying about the galaxy. They could have easily got their own ship, said "I'm sorry, friends, but we want to try this our way" and left. Instead they decided to maroon their friends and leave them at the mercy of a Council of Aliens that hate Cybertronians and hope for the friggin' best? So the arguements that they had no choice? Don't fly one bit. THey had plenty of damn choices... here... I'll write one now!

Perceptor states he is tired of being sidetracked in their quest. Several agree with them and when Rodimus is over at Swerve's he takes a photo of the map. He then politely goes to Rodimus and requests that the next time they land he and his group would like to leave, planning to have someone come with a shuttle. Rodimus agrees, they leave... and then get a ship of their own and go out to find the knights.

But instead they decided betraying their friends is the smart way to go. Because... reasons.

It would be like a group of us going to eat and you guys want to hit a movie first and pick up your drug dealer friend to hang out too. I am hungry but instead of getting a cab or, when we swing back at my apartment saying "I'm out" I steal your car and call a bunch of crooked cops and tell them "Hey, people to beat up and shoot on the corner of 5th and main!"

Either Roberts will reveal that they were lied to about the plan (my hope is that Getaway used Hardlight Holograms in the Rodimus message) or they are complete morons worthy of my scorn. And until I get a good reason... yeah, I want them to suffer. My fear is that it will go back to the ship and everything is hand-waved away and there is little to no backlash for anyone other than Getaway.

 

Best post on that matter. I haven't thought about it deeply enough like you did, because I usually trust my feelings about people, wether written or real and I'm usually right. But this sums it up perfectly. If Getaway acted like you proposed, I would not be against him, it would be understandable. But using others for his goals and endangering other fellow Autobots, wether intentional or not, is not the right thing to do. That's what makes the difference between a good and a bad person. A good person can even have bad thoughts, as long as you don't act like that. In the end this is the same that made Megatron a bad person. He had good intentions but acted wrong and boy how wrong. He used deception to further his goals like a true Decepticon. I meant Getaway btw.