It seems we had the same first girlfriend =_=

I'm in the same boat.... But I'm not looking, it's such a hassle.

 

Yea... I didn't kiss mine till I asked her out an all that jazz.... meh

 

^ The girl's out with you. You're paying for everything. Maybe she just wants free and expensive meals.  

The main point is, OP, make sure she understands what a date means.

Intention is what you want to convey. If she only wants to have fun, that can work out too. But go Dutch.

Quickest way to find out without second guessing her intentions AND without getting into the ugly zone. This will block any kind of thought zoning you. Intention.

If it`s friends only, keep it. Don`t hang around too much though. But afterwards, when she wants something, maybe after she overthinks it, your game. Can`t lose with intention.

 

Best advice in thread.

I was about to point this out myself because this should have been a critical key point when others were sharing their thoughts on the matter. Hang out =/= date.

 

Sounds like she was uncomfortable on the first "date" cause you were paying for everything and had clearly romantic intentions, which she did not.

Girls seem to live in a world where a guy and a girl can go out alone together and "it's no big deal, we're just friends! oh my god, he actually LIKED me? I had no idea!"

But she did know. But she went anyway, cause she likes the attention. And she'll keep on using you for that attention. She gets what she wants from you....validation and free meals/movies and she gets to feel special and important. But when it comes to actually giving something back romantically? She'll pull the "oh, no, we're just friends and I don't want to ruin the friendship" card.

I'm sorry to be so blunt but I agree with some of what jfetch said, but I would certainly word it differently. Based on what you wrote, it sounds to me like she was well aware of your feelings, and she had no intention to take it any further, but she still let you take her out because she enjoys all the attention she's getting. She's basically using you as entertainment while scanning the room for better options.

It also sounds awkward as hell how you just invited yourself along to this festival thing. If she wanted you to go, she'd have said so. Inviting yourself along to something that it sounds like she was planning on going to with someone else doesn't make it a "third date."

You need to be more aggressive. And I don't mean be an asshole or one of those "alpha" red pill guys. But in your current state it sounds like you're inexperienced and nervous and the only way to get over that is by getting out of your comfort zone and being a little more forward sexually.

I recommend drinking a little on dates...that might help.

 

You mean... she did all the 'work'?  

 

Wow, thanks for all the advice. And again, sorry for making a thread for this.

One thing I forgot to mention is... I wouldn't be doing this if there was nothing going on between me and her. She admires me at work, always laughs at my stupid jokes, and despite being the tough type, I noticed she gets shy and awkward when talking to me sometimes. I always try to do nice things for her - she loves chocolate so I always buy some extra to give it to her, I also made a drawing of her in her karate suit which she loved it.

About her knowing these were actually dates or not... jfetch might be right. But we hanged out before as friends, with other friends, many times. When I first invited her I made sure it was just me and her. It was an awkward date as I said, I made her uncomfortable. About her using me, I don't know. I talked to her about the previous hang out and how I exaggerated, then I suggested we go out again to do simple stuff - just walk and eat something cheap. She agreed, and paid her bill. It was much nicer than before, except for the relationship talk.

We're going out again in a couple of hours. It's not like she wanted to go with someone else to the event - she showed me the advert and said she wanted to go. She lives with her brother and his GF, they do stuff together all the time. I waited to see if she would mention going there with them, which did not happen. And I took the opportunity to offer myself as a company since she didn't mentioned going with someone else. She could've simply not show me the advert and go with someone else instead.

I told her, message me if you want to go, which she did. But yeah, it might be just stuff in my head, trying to find logic or figure out what she's up to. I'm just going there and do my best to spend a very nice Sunday with her.

Again, thanks for the advices and sorry for posting a new thread for it. All help is appreciated  

 

WARNING. I'm gonna be even blunter than before. I apologize for being so nasty, but I don't know a nice way to say this stuff.

Re-read what you just wrote.

This girl clearly sees you as a friend. Someone to hang out with and waste time with until someone better comes along. With no touching. People laugh at my jokes all the time....doesn't mean they wanna see me naked.

You got romantic and she was awkward and creeped out. But then next time she was perfectly comfortable spending time with you in a completely platonic, non-romantic way. So she basically gets her way, and you get nothing.

If you can live with that, fine. Be her "friend." Listen to her tell you how much she has a crush on some other dude and how sweet and understanding you are, like a sister. But it's basically like punching yourself in the nuts over and over and over, cause she's not just going to magically change her mind about you.

She is using you for the attention. Never buy unsolicited gifts for girls you haven't had sex with yet. It's a waste of money and makes you look desperate. Girls don't find that cute or romantic, they think it's pathetic and you're trying too hard.

If you can handle being around someone you're bursting with desire to pull close to you, kiss passionately, and hold....knowing full well she doesn't want that and it'll never happen? Well to me that sounds like torture. Why put yourself through it?

You don't owe her your "friendship" any more than she owes you romantic feelings. If her presence in your life is only going to cause heartache, misery, and longing.....just leave. Don't talk to her anymore. Stop torturing yourself.

 

She can admire you without wanting a relationship with you. She may just want friendship, or she may really like you, but not be emotionally ready for a relationship. "dates" do not mean things will evolve into a more intimate connection between the two of you, and she is in no way obligated for this to be the case, no matter how much stuff you pay for.

I get the impression you've already made her a bit uncomfortable at times treating these outings as romantic, so I'd advise you not to push the envelope with her, at least for now. Honestly, your options seem to me to be to go on these dates and enjoy yourself with someone who might only be looking to see your time together as a friend, or whose attitude towards you and your relationship develop slowly over time, OR to lay your cards on the table now (or when the other alternative becomes more than you can handle) and really risk losing contact with this girl.

 

Oh yeah...PS......good like trying to find "logic" in anything a woman does. May as well find the Holy Grail while you're at it!!

 

I've found that the less you stress yourself out about women, the more desirable you become being around them. Women can sense the slightest bit of nervousness and it turns most of them off. Women you've known for a while can also sense when you've changed along with your intentions. It's so clichéd, but being yourself really is the best strategy. If they're not down with that, move on and don't stress about it.

 

I'd say hang out with her anyway. If it's good and things happen, excellent. If it's good and nothing happens, there's much worse advertisements for yourself than being seen with a girl who's happy when she's with you.

I mean it's not like he can't scan the room too as well right?

 

Reading this post and your next one about understanding women being a "holy grail", and thinking about your recent posts in the relationship thread, I can't help but think that these attitudes might play a part in the problems you're having yourself.

Women are people, plain and simple. Women are not these ultra-complex, illogical mythical beasts beyond the reckoning of men, nor are they these flighty, selfish temptresses who delight in stringing hapless innocent men along. They're people, just like you and me. Women, in most cases, want the same things men want, and they're no less or more "logical" than the average man. In this particular case, the girl seems to enjoy spending time with the OP, but probably isn't interested in a kissy-kissy-lets-have-a-million-kids relationship with him, and that's okay. If the roles were reversed, and there was a girl who was attracted to you, or he, or I, who we didn't have romantic feelings for, I don't think it'd be monstrous of us to have a friendship with her, and to be even more blunt that yourself, we'd probably call her a bitch and cut off contact if she acted like that friendship was just a shitty consolation prize for our love. If she's just not that into him, she's just not that into him, and that's fine. I'd agree with you that he shouldn't be lavishing gifts on her, at least not more than you'd do for a friend, and certainly not if he's using them as an attempt to cultivate her affections. Not because she's going to take advantage of him or whatever, but because it more than likely makes the situation very awkward for the both of them (she may feel uncomfortable turning the gifts down because she doesn't want to offend someone she sees as a friend).

Also, in the future, I'd advise you to look elsewhere than XKCD for insight into relationships, dude's got a whack of problems on his own. There's a big long edit of that comic where the girl bluntly and devastatingly explains why she's not attracted to the guy, and broils him for feeling entitled to her love because did things friends do for eachother, culminating in Air Man from megaman lamenting how all he does is push people away. I can't seem to find it now.

 

Aernaroth, thank you so much for the above post.
I was actually getting really angry and disappointed by how prominent chauvinist attitudes are on this thread. I'm not a hardcore feminist or anything, but some of these attitudes here are just... not ok.

 

I never said it was wrong for her to not be attracted to him. Not at all. If she doesn't like him, she doesn't like him.

But too many guys believe the Ross/Rachel "Friends" fairy tale and invest untold time and money and emotion trying to "win" a girl's love when it clearly is never going to happen.

I can only speak for myself, but I can only take being "just friends" with a girl that I'm extremely enamored with for so long. If the friendship causes me more misery than happiness, I can't be a part of it. I know that's on ME, not the girl. I don't think a girl is a "bitch" if she's not attracted to me. And I'm perfectly happy being just friends with women...UNLESS I'm attracted to them. It's in my best interest to just stop being around that person and move on.

If this guy wants to be just buddies with her, that's cool, but he's clearly hoping for more and all signs seem to indicate she's not interested. I guess there's a CHANCE that if he just keeps on being a super nice guy, someday she'll develop feelings for him, so if he wants to roll the dice that's his choice. Me? I don't gamble when the odds are against me.

And I don't think women are complex and mysterious. But I do believe that the average woman IS less logical than the average man.

 

And I found this quote of yours offensive:

He did nothing of the sort. He took her on a date, she accepted. She is aware that when a man and a woman go out together socially, alone, and he insists on paying for everything and making sure she's having a good time, it's called a "date."

He didn't trick her or force himself on her. He was a gentleman. If she was uncomfortable at any time, she should have said "Hey, you're nice and all, but we're just friends. I don't like you that way and please don't go to all this trouble. Let me pay my share."

Instead she just sat there in awkward silence expecting him to be a mind reader. How is that asserting her equal control of the situation?

 

Onnsake, thank you very much for clarifying. Overall that seems pretty reasonable, but when it comes to where men or women are more "logical", I think that really just depends on the person and to pin it on one sex or the other is probably a pretty vast generalization.

Goodness, no. When I said this I was referring to the advice that "Get closer to her, touch playfully and all that. When you see her looking at your lips, go for it.". Some girls do not want to be touched and in fact feel very uncomfortable with it. When you're in a neutral setting and the other person is initialing all these physical cues, that puts you in a very awkward situation, especially if you're not comfortable with it. As far as paying for stuff, yes, you're absolutely right. A girl does have a responsibility to make it clear that she will pay her own and simply not ride it out. I agree with you one hundred percent there.

Aaanywhozit, I'm not here to go on long-winded conversations for the justice of females or anything. Not at all, so I will politely bow out of the thread now. Good day, gents.  

 

Well I also apologize if I said anything to personally attack you!

I was just stating opinions, and if I misread your statement, I'm sorry.

I know it's not a popular opinion, about the "logic" thing...which is why I used the word AVERAGE. Certainly there are millions of incredibly logically minded women out there, just like there are countless men that are blithering dumb-asses!

Please don't leave the thread on account of me...I think we all appreciate having a woman's input, even if our own opinions don't line up 100%!

 

Yeah, I'm a real asshole. I hate women. They're all bitches out to get me and keep men down. Feminazis. Raaarrgh.

Glad you guys got me all figured out.