Don Talks: More on VAs/Filming Date

[Master Fwiffo]

Had a great first week on SHOOT 'EM UP. Truly amazing. Our cast is wonderful, a great work ethic, and the director is super prepared and getting good stuff. This could be a special, and suprising film. Susan and I are psyched. We'll know more this week IF there are gonna be some Toronto Stooge visits. It is all about timing. I hope so.

On TF, I hoped to be able to tell you about our start date. I can say it is looking like late May. I can tell you that Tom and I are excited. I can tell you that Michael and Ian are working hard as hell. I can tell you that Robert and Alex are pulling all-nighters. But I can't give you the exact date until the green light comes. It will come. Maybe next week.

What I will point out here for y'all, is that the project is at a crossroads. The smarter of you could tell that things were happening behind the scenes when you read Michael's post on his site. EVERYONE has been informed by me of the ONE consensus in fandom- the original voices for Cullen and Welker. Everyone including Michael gets it. BUT not everyone supports it. If I believe the film should be tied IN GENERAL to the original material there is an equally vocal group within the production who believe that we should be re-starting our own mythology and that what was in the past stays in the past (with the exception of a nod or two). The other side has strong, rational arguments for their point of view. In their point of view, the original characters don't even need to look like you remember them, ie. Prime remains a truck but a completely new truck I don't know which point of view will prevail- that is Michael's call. The conclusion, either way, is coming soon.

What I will say, though, is be patient. We are trying to make a huge worldwide box office success based on Transformers. I hope you'll like it no matter what. Your voice is coming through ( you can tell that from Michael's post too). We're nearing the finish line on the one hand and the start line on the other.

Hang tight Stooges, hang Tight.

Link (http://www.d13satellite.com/donmurphy/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8505)

[Switchblade]

The conclusion, either way, is coming soon.
Good. Then maybe we can stop arguing over it.

We won't, of course, but it's nice to dream. :p

[ILoveDinobot]

I had a slight heart attack after he mentioned Cullen back as Prime. That would be so awesome!!!! :thumbs2:

[Valkysas]

I hate Don Murphy. Nothing will ever change that. But I do appreciate he's doing everything he can to get the true Optimus Prime in the movie.

[Dark Prime]

I don't think too many of us mind what alt modes are used, so long as a couple things happen: prime as a truck, seekers as jets, and certain colors for characters, like bumblebee = yellow, sideswipe = red. To me, those things seem like things which would be easy to agree upon. As for voices, I still would prefer cullen as prime and kaye as megatron. Even chalk as prime would be ok. But using a big name actor for the sake of it isn't necessary. It's really a shame that hollywood still hasn't learned that big name stars do not equal blockbusters.

[Brodimus Prime]

My greatest fear for this film is that it will turn into Troy. Remember that? Sure, it served its function: Helen leaves Menelaus, Greeks attack Troy, Achilles battles and kills Hector, Achilles then dies from an arrow to the heel, Greeks lay seige and destroy Troy. Yet it took a great story and distorted it. Examples: in the film Menelaus is a fat slob, a logical reason why Helen would prefer the more handsome Paris. In reality, Menelaus was a great warrior who was often praised for his good looks. To add insult to injury, the movie people KILL MENELAUS!!! WTF??!! Menelaus survived the war, took Helen back to Sparta and ruled. Odysseus' son Telemachus comes to Sparta to ask Menelaus' advice when he fears for his father's life after 15 years have passed since the end of the Trojan War. Other things it got wrong:

1. Agammemnon did not die at Troy. He survived, only to be killed in the bathtub by his wife Klytemnestra, who was pissed that he had sacrificed their daughter Ipheginia to Artemeis in order to get wind to sail to Troy.
2. The character of Odysseus. He seems to be the only level-headed Greek in the film. But in truth, he took concubines and pillaged and plundered as much, if not more, than the other Greeks.
3. Achilles and the concubine. Not only is her story wrong (I can't remember her name) but the film makes it seem as though Achilles didn't fight because he was torn between her and the war. Hell, the only reason he didn't fight was because he was pissed at Agammemnon. She had nothing to do with it.
4. Hector does not steal Achilles' armor after the fight with Petroclus. That point was essential to the story because it was supreme irony when Hector later fought Achilles while wearing Achilles' armor.
5. HELEN ESCAPES!!! **See part about Menelaus**

Sorry to get off on a Trojan rant there, but I love the stories of Homer and was painfully saddened when Hollywood all but destroyed them. Sad to say, I'm scared in the same way for Transformers. It's not like our voices haven't been heard. Don's made that clear, so has Michael Bay. But I'm afraid that bigger egos will get in the way of telling a good, nostalgic story. I thought the purpose was to make a G1 movie, so to tap into the audience's inner kid; so that the 30 year old guy will say, "Ratchet is the ambulance. Hey, I used to have him. Cool!" Or as soon as Prime speaks all the older folks in the theatre go, "Holy crap! I recognize him. He IS Optimus Prime!"

My point is this: staying true to the story and the idea cannot do any harm to the film. If anything it will help it, thanks to the nostalgia aspect. By "rewriting the mythology" (which is exactly what they did for Troy) you tamper with the myth, and it loses its power. I pray this film does not do that.

[Shipley]

RID, Armada and Infiltration have all tried to update/rewrite/modernize the mythology with varying degrees of success. I'm totally with the producers who want to do something along those same lines.

just remember what worked and what didn't work and remember that properties like Batman, Spider-Man, X-Men, etc all succeeded at the box office by providing that balance of keeping the fans happy as well as catching mainstream appeal. I know that sounds like pleasing all the people all the time, but its better than pleasing some of the people (Fantastic 4) or pleasing none of the people (Catwoman, Batman & Robin).

If they just try, they really can not fail. Its just not possible. Transformers will make a splash based on name alone and if they keep its interesting then it can be a long term success too.

[Bluestreak]

Hmm, I dont mind them changing the look of the robots just as long as you can recognise who is who.
The heads/faces being recognisable and the bots not looking too weedy are the only things I'm really hoping for.As for Peter and Frank, I dont think they're gonna be in this whatsoever. I'd like them but it's not a big deal for me if they're not there.

[Slappytron]

YAM - Yet Another Mythos. Transformers has to be right up there with Batman. How many different takes on this do we need?

[Shaun_C]

I thought the purpose was to make a G1 movie, so to tap into the audience's inner kid; so that the 30 year old guy will say, "Ratchet is the ambulance. Hey, I used to have him. Cool!" Or as soon as Prime speaks all the older folks in the theatre go, "Holy crap! I recognize him. He IS Optimus Prime!"

My point is this: staying true to the story and the idea cannot do any harm to the film. If anything it will help it, thanks to the nostalgia aspect. By "rewriting the mythology" (which is exactly what they did for Troy) you tamper with the myth, and it loses its power. I pray this film does not do that.

From what I've based able to tell this isn't a G1 movie.More a movie based on the G1 concept.We already have a G1 movie on DVD

And in terms of staying true to the story.As long as

1)They're robots from another planet called Cybertron
2)Optimus Prime is the leader of the noble Autobots
3)Megatron leads the evil Decepticons
4)They come/crash land on earth
5)Humans are involved
6)There's a matrix

That's IMO staying true to the story.I mean every TF toon we've had follows that concept.Cullen would be staying true to the nostalgia not the concept

[Nevermore]

I feel slightly worried now.

Do an "Ultimate" and make it fresh, while at the same time keep the "essence" of the mythos intact? Fine.

Da a John Byrne and change everything you feel like changing just for the sake of changing it? Bah. "Transformers, a story about the heroic Hyperbots from Planet Robottion fighting the evil Destructorbots! Gigantimus Major vs. Machanitron! In theatres July 2006!"

[Backpack]

If they don't want to tell the Transformers story.... why even bother? Just make something else. This whole project started out as an updated G1... and it gone to 'it might make a few nods, with characters that look nothing like they should. If this is the course they take, it's going to be bad... even getting/using Cullen wouldn't save the movie. It's starting to sound like a freaken disaster. Even the way Bay speaks of them as robots... 'hot robot on robot fighting action'.... clues me in to the underlying thinking on this project.

Make a G1 film... or let it die.

[Ops_was_a_truck]

This is refreshing. This is the kind of update I was hoping for. I'm much more interested in hearing Murphy's twist on production than I am on Bay's. Nice to hear that the film is progressing at a relatively swift pace now.

[Scantron]

Nice to get another update as to what's going on with the movie and it's coming closer and closer to being a reality. Personally, I'd like to see them do a whole new take on Transformers to bring something fresh to the table, as I'm getting a bit tired of all the G1 rehashing that's going on in the line right now. I realize there are some fans who won't be happy unless the movie is a shot-for-shot live-action recreation of the cartoon "MTMTE", complete with all the animation errors and Chris Latta resurrected from the dead to do Starscream's voice...but it's time for something new. It's nice the producers are listening to the fans, but this movie will be a disaster if they base too much on the rather vocal whining of the internet fanbase. Cullen and Welker back as Prime and Megatron? I'd love to see Welker reprise his role, as he's an excellent voice actor, or even just show up for a cameo if he doesn't play Megatron. Could do without Cullen, though, as his work wasn't that impressive in the original cartoon.

[misterd]

I don't mind a fresh approach to old material. Spider-Man, Superman, Batman, the XMen and numerous other comic book characters have all thrived with solid reinterpretations for the screen, both big and large. Of course,a reinterpretation can also result in a colassal failure, but so can staying too close to the source material. In other words: simply straying from the established story doesn't mean a thing.

The catch is how it is adopted. Spider-Man's costume was different, but he wasn't put in red and gold armor. Krypton was radiacally different, but it wasn't blown up by Lex Luthor. You can fiddle on the margins all you want, but you can't take away from the franchise's heart. In this case, that heart is Optimus Prime (and to a lesser extent, Megatron). I suppose another voice actor could do a great job with Prime, but like Gary Chalk they will likely do so by adhering closely to what Cullen established. In the case of Megatron, Welker was replaced by Nimoy for the movie, and David Kaye's Megs/Galvy most definately does not sound similar to G1s. The only other voice which I think has a critical sound quality would be Soundwave.

In terms of appearance, I think it depends on whether they are talking robot or alt mode. Prime's had lots of different truck modes, so as long as he's a truck, I don't care what they do, and I think you have similar flexibility with the alt modes of every other character.

For robot modes, the margins are narrower. Changing Prime's appearance dramatically would be akin to changing Superman's or Batman's costume. Yes, every tv show and film (and many times comic artists) have had different costumes, but they were always a variation on the same theme. The same must be done with Prime. Other characters again have a bit more flexibility, but to have any appeal to the fans of the series, a good number of them must be at least recognizable.

[Brodimus Prime]

It's like Backpack said, look where the thing started and look what it is now. It started as an updated G1 film, now we have folks telling us that some bots may not look the same or Prime may be a different kind of truck. Again, it feels like the beginnings of Armada, where we were told it would be one thing, then it evolved into something totally different.

As far as being a retooling of G1, we've had that. The Micron Trilogy is the new G1 (at least as I see it), complete with G1 homages in names, alt modes, and storylines. That's not to say that they ARE G1. They'll never be. And they'll never capture our hearts and minds the way that classic show did back in the day and still does today. Nostalgia can work if you make it as close to the original series as you can.

I know the film can't be the exact same thing. I understand it, accept it, and in some cases welcome it. I was looking forward to a helicopter Soundwave, and I'd like to see what kind of tank Megs will look like this time around. But I'm scared they're going to just slap on the name to something that just does not feel like Transformers, but more like Machine Robo. I want Cullen and Welker (particularly for Soundwave), and I think we all do, we just are sick of people complaining about it. We know Peter wants to do it, and Frank is the "voice god." I think they can only help the film.

Even though the latest updates scare me a little, I am glad that stuff is getting done. Won't be long now till we get the final answer.

[Golden Age]

OK.

If done well the original Transformers story could actually be IMPROVED upon. With "Batman the animated series" Bruce Timm and Paul Dini really cut all the fat from the source material. We have to remember that Dini and Timm did have a long relationship with the material, they also worked in comics and animation for their entire careers. Not to mention that they had a stroke of genius.
My major concern is that the writers and creators of the upcoming Transformers film arent as familiar with the original material. I am unsure that they understand what is good about it.

[Ra88]

You know, I think all this panic is for nothing. The whole 'characters look different' thing is just Bay's way of saying that they're new takes on the old characters (like G1 and Cybertron Soundwave, or G1 and Energon Galvatron). And I doubt Spielberg would allow him to make them 'just robots', remember, that guy is a nut for emotional plots and characters no matter what movie he's involved with.

[Voiceroy]

At this point, it's not a huge issue to me if Cullen and Welker aren't voicing Prime and Megs. I surely hope they do, but if they go the celebrity voice route -- it would suck if they cast them solely based on what names they *think* will put more butts in the seats, rather than the actors who give the best performances.

I just want an entertaining, quality movie with a solid script, realistic-looking CGI, awesome bot battle action scenes, and high-quality performances. And one that's not watered-down to appeal to kids.

I'm sick of all the pre-movie debate otherwise.

There will be plenty of time for that afterwards.

[Acteon]

I just hope they keep the heart of the original franchise - there was a Gobots movie, but it wasn't as good as TF (natch). I don't want to end up with something that feels more like Gobots than TF. The mythos needs to be recognisable for this to work. As for Cullen and Welker - it'd be nice, but Hollywood has a stigma about needing big names, whether they can act with their voices or not.

[neospark1]

We are trying to make a huge worldwide box office success based on Transformers. I hope you'll like it no matter what.

Let me just replace one word and everyone will get my take on this.

We are trying to make a huge worldwide box office success based on Catwoman. I hope you'll like it no matter what.

[SAJse]

I'm sick of all the pre-movie debate otherwise.

There will be plenty of time for that afterwards.
Post-movie discussion has its own disadvantages. Most notably the lack of access to a time machine (and rocket cars to a lesser degree :redface: ).

Plus the thread title was very clear, I thought. :wink:

Other than that I'm just praying "Don's side" calls heads because I'd rather see an adaptation rather than a completely new mythos with a few nods.

[Dalarsco]

If Megatron sounds anything like Welker I will be pissed. He was great for cheesy '80s plot of the day villain, but in a millenial action movie you need something better. But Cullen is a damn good Prime, and I hope to hear his voice.

[Superman_Alpha]

My greatest fear is that this movie will ultimately be nothing more than an attempt to cash in on the name & popularity of the Transformers, but be as unrecognizable to the source material as Catwoman, Batman Returns, Batman & Robin or LXG all were. Or like Tim Burton's thankfully-aborted Superman movie where Superman wore all black, couldn't fly and got around in a super-car.

That goes beyond the voice actors debate, but the whole "let's do something totally different with no ties to the past" notion that they keep mentioning.

[SKowl]

As long as Wheelie isnt in the movie, I'll be happy no matter what...

(that is not true - but is it funny regardless)

laugh now.

[EagleEyeJoe]

I think Nevermore captured my gut reaction...

I'm slightly worried.

I can understand what's going on, and saddly - it's all about the ego. People want to put their own "stamp" on a project and say "hey, I did this". Well, sometimes that involves saying "hey, I destroyed something really cool". Does this movie have the potential to be awesome? Absolutely.

Will it? ......

The whole argument over Cullen and Welker should be a non issue IMHO. These are iconic voices to a generation. It is possible to recreate a mythology and still pay tribute to the roots. Spider-Man's films rebooted the mythology... but you know, it felt like Spider-Man. The character's heart beat inside the suit. If the producers and writers can't find the heart of Prime and Megatron (and the other Transformers) - then this will be just another big FX movie.. with no soul.

The story isn't that hard to get.. really. I mean, Sunbow created a catchy little tune that told you everything you needed to know.

Transformers... Robots in Disguise.
Autobots wage their battle to destroy the evil forces of the Decepticons.

There's your story :)

I don't know... I will remain hopeful, but I'm going to be looking to get another copy of "More Than Meets The Eye" on DVD.

[03Mach1]

They had me at "Transformers".

:thumbs2:

[Cheetatron]

From what I've based able to tell this isn't a G1 movie.More a movie based on the G1 concept.We already have a G1 movie on DVD

And in terms of staying true to the story.As long as

1)They're robots from another planet called Cybertron
2)Optimus Prime is the leader of the noble Autobots
3)Megatron leads the evil Decepticons
4)They come/crash land on earth
5)Humans are involved
6)There's a matrix

That's IMO staying true to the story.I mean every TF toon we've had follows that concept.Cullen would be staying true to the nostalgia not the concept
Basically What your take is:
The movie people want this to be more like an "Ultimate" G1 story as opposed to a G1 "2099" story like RID, Armadacon.

[Cheetatron]

We are trying to make a huge worldwide box office success based on Transformers. I hope you'll like it no matter what.

Let me just replace one word and everyone will get my take on this.

We are trying to make a huge worldwide box office success based on Catwoman. I hope you'll like it no matter what.
How can you compare catwoman to the transformer situation they wanted to cash in on the comic craze but they had to make it an elseworlds story because of the 'bat' embargo that went into effect thanx to the batman begins movie. In other words they couldn't include batman making it imo a bad idea no matter who directed/produced/wrote or stared in the first place.

The Spiderman movie is much more comprable no legal issues to contend with just many, many artistic and personal changes to give the property the best chance at success in a new media. Simillarily the proposed changes angered its established "rabble rabble" rabid fanbase and was a huge success dare I say, because of it.

[Dio]

You have to look at the motivation behind the whole "ask the fans" approach Don Murphy took. He said in one of his interviews that he did it partly to avoid making the mistake he did with League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, which ended up getting negative reactions from fans of the comic for not being "true" to it. I don't know the details of that, as I never read the comic, but the overall reasoning behind setting up the TF Movie forums is clear.

However, this line of thinking is different because apparently, all he could gather from the (rabidly vocal) fan base is that "Cullen and Welker are necessary or at least would be a good thing." Nothing regarding characterizations, nothing regarding storyline besides big robots tearing each other apart.

Can we say that we've failed as fans to really get the point across as to what would make this movie successful to the general public, as well as satisfactory to the fans of the original series? Too much bickering, and all we're left with as a unified message is that two of the original voice actors would satiate a zealous minority, while being generally a "good but not critical" element to the rest of us. That is downright pathetic.

However, I do think that the "heart and soul" of Transformers will be preserved as well as the core was for X-Men. In that movie, it was "spectacular people with mutant powers battling each other over freedom and equality." In Transformers, it will be "Giant Robots in Disguise battling each other over energy and the safety of the humans." That's all it needs to be a good film, and I honestly think there's nothing that can detract from that because when all's said and done, there is nothing else for us to really care about as a group.

All of the pointless debate and ranting on message forums has just proven that the only thing we can agree on is "big robots fighting and turning into stuff." Everything else seems to be a rabid attachment from a minority number of the fans, that will not make or break the movie as a whole.

So yeah, I'm excited whichever route they choose to go, I just hope that once the direction is set they'll all pursue that one wholeheartedly and not allow the partisanhood to divide their efforts in making this film (something I really don't see happening).

[orionpacks85]

Since there's no way in hell Megatron will ever be a gun the very least they could do is give us the original voices.
If you're not a Transformers fan I doubt George Clooney doing the voice will get you to go see the movie.
And on that note...remember Hollywood thought star power alone would save the Batman franchise and we ended up with 'Batman & Robin'.

[eriku]

Okay, if the camp that wants what was in the past to stay in the past, then why use the names Optimus Prime and Megatron at all? That's just as much of the mythos as anything. Hell, why even call the movie "Transformers"? Why not make "The Brave Little Toaster 3 - Mission to Pluto"?

This thing is almost guaranteed to turn out like the live action Super Mario Bros. movie.

[Golden Age]

I agree that the voice thing isnt my biggest concern. However Kullen and Welker were both great voice actors who embodied to very powerful personalities with ease. I disagree with the post that put down g1 Megatrons voice. He was the best Megatron in my opinion, and he was also the scariest.

[Shaun_C]

Okay, if the camp that wants what was in the past to stay in the past, then why use the names Optimus Prime and Megatron at all? That's just as much of the mythos as anything. Hell, why even call the movie "Transformers"? Why not make "The Brave Little Toaster 3 - Mission to Pluto"?

Because people identify Optimus Prime and Megatron to transformers.And people are using that what was in the past to stay in the past TOO litterally.All it means is to NOT expect the Live Action movie to be G1 rehashed


This thing is almost guaranteed to turn out like the live action Super Mario Bros. movie.

:rolleyes2

You better start playing the lottery if you can see the future so well

I think that the people who attend this movie with the intention to enjoy it will.

[Frognal]

I'm not liking this "Burtonesque" attitude.

[eriku]

See, overall I expect the worst because Michael Bay has made nothing but the very worst out of Hollywood. As far as my tastes in film go, the films I find to be the absolute worst have happend to come from Michael Bay. Yes, it's all a matter of taste, but for people like me who can't stand what Michael Bay makes, it would take elements like old voice actors and recognizable character designs to get us to even go to the film. Without anything familiar to look forward to, i really have no reason to waste any of my time with this production because it's just going to be another overbloated slam-bang action thriller Michael Bay schlock-fest.

[neospark1]

Shaun,

People CAN have opinions (of which I am in the same camp) that are not glared over in rose colored glasses.

Of course no one wants G1 "rehashed." Much of the original series (like most things of the 80's) would not begin to even hold candle to what mature audiences expect in a movie.

That being said, it is OK for people to want G1 in this movie. But G1 with Beast Wars quality script writing and voice acting. And to be honest, there are some eps of G1 to this day that shine through.

If you want to disagree with someone, that's cool. But can we knock off the :rolleyes: ?

I WANT:

G1
G1 with upated alt modes.
G1 with a kick ass, compelling story.
G1 with visuals that make me fall out of my seat.
Peter Cullen IS Optimus Prime.

I just DO NOT get all this BEEP about how we cannot expect G1 and should just expect whatever comes along.

Spider-Man was G1, so to speak. I mean, honestly, how many people here think that the Spider-Man movies would have been the success they have been if it screwed with the essence of what it means to be Spider-Man?

Hmmmm ... thinks Sam Raimi need to go over and have a chat with all the Transformer folks. :horse:

Because people identify Optimus Prime and Megatron to transformers.And people are using that what was in the past to stay in the past TOO litterally.All it means is to NOT expect the Live Action movie to be G1 rehashed



:rolleyes2

You better start playing the lottery if you can see the future so well

I think that the people who attend this movie with the intention to enjoy it will.

[DrawerDemon]

...another overbloated slam-bang action thriller Michael Bay schlock-fest.

That's my fear. All glitter, no substance.

Not to sound too Joseph Campbell/George Lucas, but all the "Mythical" stuff is vital to the brand.

If there's a story that relates to the human condition, you don't even need human characters, as Pixar keeps proving. Hell, isn't Cars coming out soon?

G1's "Warrior School," for example, is a story about a peaceful hero, forced to fight a homicidal, merciless villain, not "The Ambulance Guy and the Gun Guy Have a Big Fight."

The fight is worthless without a reason to fight. That they're giant, transforming robots is incidental. Ratchet's unwillingness to fight Megatron clashes with his need to save his comrades, and that's where the action is.

Arrg! I'm venting like a fanboy! Crap!

We'll all have to wait and see. More than anything else, a good story would impress the hell out of me. Don't screw with the stuff that clearly works, and don't make characters with one dimension.

[Omnibus Prime]

blahblahblahCullenandWelkerblahblahblah

http://www2.propichosting.com/Images/500991/14.gif

Seriously this is like the third or fourth thread in a week that has devolved into back and forth about the damn VAs...and Murphy hails this as the one thing all the fandom agrees on? :sly2:

[Cheetatron]

Okay, if the camp that wants what was in the past to stay in the past, then why use the names Optimus Prime and Megatron at all? That's just as much of the mythos as anything. Hell, why even call the movie "Transformers"?
You could ask those same question for any line after g1 and its as simple as this: Use it or lose it EX. dont use the name shockwave for x amount of years you lose the right to it

[misterd]

We are trying to make a huge worldwide box office success based on Transformers. I hope you'll like it no matter what.

Let me just replace one word and everyone will get my take on this.

We are trying to make a huge worldwide box office success based on Catwoman. I hope you'll like it no matter what.


Kind of, sort of, but not really. Most people know diddly squat about the character of Catwoman. The changes in her character would have pissed off comic fans, but if the movie was decent anyway, many would have dealt and moved on. What made Catwoman the movie it was was not infidelity to the source material, but the holy trinity of movie suckage: bad acting, bad writing, bad directing.

[Superman_Alpha]

Shaun,

People CAN have opinions (of which I am in the same camp) that are not glared over in rose colored glasses.

Of course no one wants G1 "rehashed." Much of the original series (like most things of the 80's) would not begin to even hold candle to what mature audiences expect in a movie.

That being said, it is OK for people to want G1 in this movie. But G1 with Beast Wars quality script writing and voice acting. And to be honest, there are some eps of G1 to this day that shine through.

amen.


Look at what IDW is doing with G1. Fresh "modern" spin, but clearly G1.

[airfox]

Spider-Man was G1, so to speak. I mean, honestly, how many people here think that the Spider-Man movies would have been the success they have been if it screwed with the essence of what it means to be Spider-Man?

I beg to differ, but Spider-man wasn't G1, it was G1-based.

I've been reading Spider-man comics since I was 8 years old. I remember both the old cartoon (Spider-man, Spider-man, does whatever a spider can), the second one, the one with Iceman and Firestar and the 90s one.

Don't get me wrong. I think both Spider-man movies were good, I even own the DVDs; but to me both movies always felt odd and I can't quite point out why. Is it because of the webbing? Is it because Peter keeps loosing his mask? Is it because he's not a genius? Is it Mary Jane or Dr. Octopus? I don't know.

I even liked more Fantastic Four than Spider-man, even though objectively (sp?) I guess the source material was more respected on Spider-man.

Having said that, I hope Transformers receives at least a movie with the quality and standards like Spider-man & Spider-man 2. At least. Hopefully we'll get X2 or Batman Begins quality though. I think there's still hope and I'm looking forward to what the producers, directors and writers deliver.

P.S.: besides, everybody knows Cullen isn't Prime. Optimus Prime spoke in spanish. :D
P.S.2: I wonder if in 1988 fans were clamoring for Adam West to reprise his role as Batman in Burton's movie.

-airfox

[Cheetatron]

If you're not a Transformers fan I doubt George Clooney doing the voice will get you to go see the movie.
I think many of you are letting nostalgia cloud your judgement. That opinion doesn't even seem to be based in any rational school of thought. PS. I dont care for clooney but the man has REAL pull, you would be naive to underestimate.

Take shrek or lion king for example do you honestly believe those movies would have grossed a 3rd of what they did with no names staring in them?

Look at Shrek 2, it
-added a known latino actor, hispanics could relate to
-added a seasoned and well known "face work" actor
-it blew away its very, very, very succeful predaccessor in terms of grossing

Do you mean to tell me the first and second points didnt affect the third point? I am not saying thay are the sole reasons, I am saying they should have had a HUGE effect.

I never saw shreck 2, but even if I did and thought it was bad, its box office success would render my opinion superfulous.

Now lets look at a tragically neutered film franchise as far as big name celebrity voice are concerned:

Winnie The Pooh its safe these movies almost always break even because they are
-cheap to make
-popular enough with the kids
-nostalic but as some thing of an endearing cross generational iconic property they have more nostalgic pull than tfs

But they're success potential is capped infact "bottlenecked" would be apporpriate they will never be run away successes cause they never have big name stars in the leading most roles. They will always be at the bottom barrel of movies that do more than break even in their home market.

more celeb voices than i know what to do with (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0298148/business) and its less succesful older brother (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0126029/business) vs The Tigger Movie's grossings (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0220099/business)

And thats the best anyone could realisticly hope for if cullen and welkner(both worked on the tigger movie) were recasted. My point is breaking even isn't guranteed, so why should the people who make the movie bottleneck themselves, they should stack the odds as much in their favor as possible.


P.S.2: I wonder if in 1988 fans were clamoring for Adam West to reprise his role as Batman in Burton's movie.

-airfox
I think someone on transformerslive pointed out that the fans did on alt groups or whatever but it couldn't have matered less for a variety of reasons

[Superman_Alpha]

P.S.2: I wonder if in 1988 fans were clamoring for Adam West to reprise his role as Batman in Burton's movie.

Comic book geeks? no.

Regular people? yes. In fact Warner Bros went to great lengths to distance the movie from everyone's expectations of the popular sitcom; a show so popular when it debuted that it was credited with the explosion in the sales of color TV sets. This was especially difficult for WB after the director hired an actor only known as a comedian for the lead role, which was why WB pushed The Dark Knight Returns as the new modern take on Batman for a year before the movie's release.

[Enigma2K2]

GAAAAH!!! I'm sick of this!!! People... get over it! You should just hope Murphy pulls off a good movie! Stop bitching about the voice actors already!!!

Sorry... had to vent...

[Cheetatron]

GAAAAH!!! I'm sick of this!!! People... get over it! You should just hope Murphy pulls off a good movie! Stop bitching about the voice actors already!!!

Sorry... had to vent...
Conflict is in human nature. Some people will never stop bitching about certain things take rabid 616 spiderman fans and the subject of organic webbing.

[Twin Twist]

Come on Cullen and Welker! WHOO!

[Cheetatron]

^Bah
Fishbourne and Keith David in 07

[Omnibus Prime]

Come on Cullen and Welker! WHOO!

Hell with Cullen and Welker! BOOO!!

I say from here on out, you just quote one of the above whenever this topic comes up. Either that or you must bring pie charts to back up your argument for or against Cullen/Welker. Because pie tastes good.

[Cheetatron]

Murphy hails this as the one thing all the fandom agrees on? :sly2: Really? Wow just goes to show how impared one's judgement can be when one is blinded by nostalgia or is surrounded by those who are. I myself thought the lines were drawn on every tf board you could possibly go to. The nostalgia soldiers :thumbdown vs the progressive crew :thumb I guess the soldiers have Murpys ear on his board?

Yes, it's all a matter of taste, but for people like me who can't stand what Michael Bay makes, it would take elements like old voice actors and recognizable character designs to get us to even go to the film. Exactly how many of you do you think there are?

Profit and Viability aren't exactly subjective things and as such they kinda make subjective things irrelevent. Case in point there are at least 4 micheal bay movies that grossed over 100 mil in the US alone, Pearl Harbor, The Rock, Armegeddon and Bad Boys 2. 3 of them recouped more than half of the budget at opening week and made 65 mill+ in profit in the US alone. If his movies weren't awfully profitable most of te time he probably wouldn't be allowed to make them unlike Uwe Boll who abuses provisions in German law to fund his travesties and make himself a profit.

Spider-Man was G1, so to speak. I mean, honestly, how many people here think that the Spider-Man movies would have been the success they have been if it screwed with the essence of what it means to be Spider-Man? The spiderman movies were basicaly an ultimate style spiderman epc it "screwed" or upgraded many aspects of what made 616 spiderman for grossing viability and art purposes they continue to be raimi's highest grossing most profitable movies.

Hmmmm ... thinks Sam Raimi need to go over and have a chat with all the Transformer folks. :peoples: Cause raimi paid so much attention to nostalgia blinded fans that he abandoned his vision and followed stan lee's "amazing adult fantasy #15' to the script right?

What? You couldn't find any examples to back up your argument so you decide to trump one up and try to twist an example that could and would be used against you? :banghead:

[Twin Twist]

Anyone not cheering for Cullen and Welker on is dead in my eyes. DEAD.

I don't care what you think, I want Cullen and Welker.

THE END!

[Hiro Prime]

And wellcome to Hollywood Poly-sci 101. God I hated the politics out there. It was one of the reasons why I quit working in the industry.

Tho I do believe that everyone needs to take a step back, breath real deep and re-read Don's post again. He's not saying that the other side wants to change everything, just that the movie should be it's own universe so to speak.

Keep in mind that These people are throwing ALOT of money at this project. They have to make it back plus more and we fans couldn't make it successful if we went to see it 100 times each.

That said, let's look a couple of things rationally.

1. Hasbro will not let these guys stray too far from the path. This is one of their big guns. They have to be able to sell toys based on this movie so I don't think they're gonna accept too many changes that stray too far away from the "mythos".

2. Like him or not, Don has been working with the fanbase so we can have some kind of voice in what get's done. Keep in mind that as a film is in production the last person who's voice gets heard is the writer. (unless the writer is the producer or director or etc...) Below the writer is the series creator or sorce origin (once again unless they are further involved) And we fans are even lower on the pole than that. So if anyone working on this film even stops to look our way, never mind listen to anything we have to say, we should be happy.

3. As was stated earlier in this thread, how can we expect them to even listen to us if we can't even agree as a fanbase on what we want? If when they do decide to give us an ear and we shout craploads of conflicting ideas, don't be surprised that they don't listen to us.

4. Lastly, Movies are made by committie. Yes there is guidance by the Director, but everyone who's involved withmaking the movie put's their own touches on it. From the actors to the make-up crew, from costumes to props. And all of the techincal people as well. Then there's the score, and special f/x and then it all goes thru a blender called editing. So what started as one thing can become somthing entirerly different once compleated. And it's all up to the Director to make sure things go as smoothly as possible and everyone is on page. When it's done right, you get Lord of the Rings... When it's not, you get Catwoman.

This is why Don keeps refering to Bay on things as the ball is in his hands now. So what ever we hear from now until our butts are in the theater seats, the only way anyone is gonna enjoy the movie is to realise how things work and to trust that everything is in good hands. Otherwise your gonna be in for a hellish 18 months.

[Roller]

Anyone not cheering for Cullen and Welker on is dead in my eyes. DEAD.

I don't care what you think, I want Cullen and Welker.

THE END!


Shush! You'll agitate Michael Bay! :)

[Twin Twist]

And wellcome to Hollywood Poly-sci 101. God I hated the politics out there. It was one of the reasons why I quit working in the industry.

Tho I do believe that everyone needs to take a step back, breath real deep and re-read Don's post again. He's not saying that the other side wants to change everything, just that the movie should be it's own universe so to speak.

Keep in mind that These people are throwing ALOT of money at this project. They have to make it back plus more and we fans couldn't make it successful if we went to see it 100 times each.

That said, let's look a couple of things rationally.

1. Hasbro will not let these guys stray too far from the path. This is one of their big guns. They have to be able to sell toys based on this movie so I don't think they're gonna accept too many changes that stray too far away from the "mythos".

2. Like him or not, Don has been working with the fanbase so we can have some kind of voice in what get's done. Keep in mind that as a film is in production the last person who's voice gets heard is the writer. (unless the writer is the producer or director or etc...) Below the writer is the series creator or sorce origin (once again unless they are further involved) And we fans are even lower on the pole than that. So if anyone working on this film even stops to look our way, never mind listen to anything we have to say, we should be happy.

3. As was stated earlier in this thread, how can we expect them to even listen to us if we can't even agree as a fanbase on what we want? If when they do decide to give us an ear and we shout craploads of conflicting ideas, don't be surprised that they don't listen to us.

4. Lastly, Movies are made by committie. Yes there is guidance by the Director, but everyone who's involved withmaking the movie put's their own touches on it. From the actors to the make-up crew, from costumes to props. And all of the techincal people as well. Then there's the score, and special f/x and then it all goes thru a blender called editing. So what started as one thing can become somthing entirerly different once compleated. And it's all up to the Director to make sure things go as smoothly as possible and everyone is on page. When it's done right, you get Lord of the Rings... When it's not, you get Catwoman.

This is why Don keeps refering to Bay on things as the ball is in his hands now. So what ever we hear from now until our butts are in the theater seats, the only way anyone is gonna enjoy the movie is to realise how things work and to trust that everything is in good hands. Otherwise your gonna be in for a hellish 18 months.
Don't come in here with stupid things like FACT and REASON. They're not welcome. Cullen and Welker are, however, you can lick the windows!

[Feralstorm]

OK, It's pretty much a given this will not be a live action rehash of the "More than Meets the Eye" miniseries. Change is expected, even necessary to take occasionally cheesy stories and characters from the 1980s and make it accessible and acceptable to a mass audience who may or may not have any nostalgia for the original stuff.

All the "avoid ties to the past" talk still concerns me though, because the past is what created the opportunity to make a new film, and what will appeal to those with even the mildest sense of nostalgia. It's also a bit vague right now. Does avoiding ties to the past mean "some modes and designs change for the sake of moviemaking and storytelling, and please don't be too put out if Cullen's not in it.", or is it more like "You're going to love it! Optimus Prime is an insecure soldier rising to prominence after his experiences on Earth. Hell be voiced by David Schwimmer, and we just scored H. R. Giger to design all the robots in his trademarked style!". I'll agree that Hasbro probably won't let things stray too far from where they "should" be, since they own the property, and would like to use this movie to move some toys.

I think the big thing is this movie should be recognizable to the vaguely nostalgic as G1, even if it's a modernised, updated, reimagined version of G1. Transformers has already been reimagined a lot, assuning the baseline is the cartoon or the Marvel comics, a little deviation gets you a Dreamwave or IDW version of G1. More deviation, and you get Armada, Energon, Cybertron, and RiD. Take the deviation farther still, and you get Beast Wars and Beast Machines (I know these connect to G1, but they are also a reimagined TF universe in their own way too)

I don't want a movie that reminds me too much of Armada. I guess that's what I'm saying. :)

[Brave Magnus]

I know I say this a lot but: what's your obsession with getting Cullen and Welker for the movie voices? Let other guys act too.

[neospark1]

I have a chill pill if you need one.

:D

Really? Wow just goes to show how impared one's judgement can be when one is blinded by nostalgia or is surrounded by those who are. I myself thought the lines were drawn on every tf board you could possibly go to. The nostalgia soldiers :thumbdown vs the progressive crew :thumb I guess the soldiers have Murpys ear on his board?

Exactly how many of you do you think there are?

Profit and Viability aren't exactly subjective things and as such they kinda make subjective things irrelevent. Case in point there are at least 4 micheal bay movies that grossed over 100 mil in the US alone, Pearl Harbor, The Rock, Armegeddon and Bad Boys 2. 3 of them recouped more than half of the budget at opening week and made 65 mill+ in profit in the US alone. If his movies weren't awfully profitable most of te time he probably wouldn't be allowed to make them unlike Uwe Boll who abuses provisions in German law to fund his travesties and make himself a profit.

The spiderman movies were basicaly an ultimate style spiderman epc it "screwed" or upgraded many aspects of what made 616 spiderman for grossing viability and art purposes they continue to be raimi's highest grossing most profitable movies.

:peoples: Cause raimi paid so much attention to nostalgia blinded fans that he abandoned his vision and followed stan lee's "amazing adult fantasy #15' to the script right?

What? You couldn't find any examples to back up your argument so you decide to trump one up and try to twist an example that could and would be used against you? :banghead:

[Hale]

I wouldnt be suprised if some characters looked very different. I'd expect prime to have a "normal" face. One with a mouth and nose and not the faceplate. You cant have one of the main good guy's face half covered. Who knows...

[Dalarsco]

The only thing that matters is that the actors can act and the voices aren't a departure from characterization. If the studio wanted to make Starscream voiced by Al Pacino, I'd say go for it. If they wanted Ironhide voiced by Clint Eastwood, it would be pretty cool. That being said, keep crappy actors far away from this movie. Owen Wilson is hilarious, but he can't actually act.

[Ra88]

I wouldnt be suprised if some characters looked very different. I'd expect prime to have a "normal" face. One with a mouth and nose and not the faceplate. You cant have one of the main good guy's face half covered. Who knows...

Now THERE is something that'll NEVER happen. Of all Optimus Primes, there has always been one consistent factor: blue helmet, a crest, antennas and a mouthplate (alright, RiD dropped the blue helmet on the supermodes, but you get what I mean). And since OP ís Transformers to many fans out there...

[TerraEsperZ]

They could go the Primal/Cybertron Prime route, and give him a partial faceplate with an inset for a mouth, which can look very good and still keep the established look.

[Dark Prime]

I think hasbro will step in and make sure there are certain appearances that must be there, with one being prime having a distinct prime-like appearance. After all, i'm pretty sure they want to have it so if you look at a character then you know who it is without being told. This would help attract people in their 20-30s who haven't seen transformers in many years.

[Blastwave]

Please, no changing of the mouthplate... I can just hear my friends now "Hey Jon, you're a transformer fan... what the f*** did they do to Optimus?" And my only response will be a sigh as I shamefully look to the ground.

I think this is Don's way of softening the blow before it hits. I believe that he thinks Bay already has made his decision, and it's not in favor of the original VAs.

[Cheetatron]

I think hasbro will step in and make sure there are certain appearances that must be there, with one being prime having a distinct prime-like appearance. After all, i'm pretty sure they want to have it so if you look at a character then you know who it is without being told. This would help attract people in their 20-30s who haven't seen transformers in many years.I also hope this megatron actually looks like g1 megatron in facial appearance.

[Greyryder]

They could go the Primal/Cybertron Prime route, and give him a partial faceplate with an inset for a mouth, which can look very good and still keep the established look.

No. Prime's broken nose has never looked good. I'd rather he had a regular face, than to start cutting holes in his mouthplate, again.

[StarAngel]

And wellcome to Hollywood Poly-sci 101. God I hated the politics out there. It was one of the reasons why I quit working in the industry.

Tho I do believe that everyone needs to take a step back, breath real deep and re-read Don's post again. He's not saying that the other side wants to change everything, just that the movie should be it's own universe so to speak.

Keep in mind that These people are throwing ALOT of money at this project. They have to make it back plus more and we fans couldn't make it successful if we went to see it 100 times each.

That said, let's look a couple of things rationally.

1. Hasbro will not let these guys stray too far from the path. This is one of their big guns. They have to be able to sell toys based on this movie so I don't think they're gonna accept too many changes that stray too far away from the "mythos".

2. Like him or not, Don has been working with the fanbase so we can have some kind of voice in what get's done. Keep in mind that as a film is in production the last person who's voice gets heard is the writer. (unless the writer is the producer or director or etc...) Below the writer is the series creator or sorce origin (once again unless they are further involved) And we fans are even lower on the pole than that. So if anyone working on this film even stops to look our way, never mind listen to anything we have to say, we should be happy.

3. As was stated earlier in this thread, how can we expect them to even listen to us if we can't even agree as a fanbase on what we want? If when they do decide to give us an ear and we shout craploads of conflicting ideas, don't be surprised that they don't listen to us.

4. Lastly, Movies are made by committie. Yes there is guidance by the Director, but everyone who's involved withmaking the movie put's their own touches on it. From the actors to the make-up crew, from costumes to props. And all of the techincal people as well. Then there's the score, and special f/x and then it all goes thru a blender called editing. So what started as one thing can become somthing entirerly different once compleated. And it's all up to the Director to make sure things go as smoothly as possible and everyone is on page. When it's done right, you get Lord of the Rings... When it's not, you get Catwoman.

This is why Don keeps refering to Bay on things as the ball is in his hands now. So what ever we hear from now until our butts are in the theater seats, the only way anyone is gonna enjoy the movie is to realise how things work and to trust that everything is in good hands. Otherwise your gonna be in for a hellish 18 months.

In short, Amen.

[StarAngel]

I think we are pretty darn lucky a movie is being made of TFs and that those in charge are willing to listen to us. After all the feuding that has been going on, I'm surprised they still are listening to us.
We all need to understand that this movie needs to make money. Bottom line. Hollywood is not going to just allow to have a movie made for only us the fanbase. Has to be so big that the first weekend it opens screams "make a sequel" with money. And it sounds like Bay is planning on making sequels.

I think we need to trust Bay, Spielberg, Don and company with what they are doing. Another bottom line.

If Cullen and Welker are chosen, great. If not, then I will trust that voice actors for Prime and Megatron are chosen for the roles are good actors who will make the characters come alive. I'll settle for a cameo role of Cullen and Welker just appearing somewhere in the movie like Stan Lee does in movies.
G1 is great cause it started it all for a great many of us. Its why we have Armada, Beast Wars, Energon and all the others. But we have to get past that G1 is the end-all of all things. If you look, Hasbro has been listening to us as well by giving us updated toys of classic G1 characters like Energon Galvatron, Rodimus, Arcee and Alpha Q to just name a few off hand. Perhaps this will be the same with the movie.

TFs needs some updating since it was originally released in the 80's. We no longer have boom boxes.

Right now I'll be happy if Don, Bay and company are happy to be doing this movie and listening to us cause after everything that has been said, I wouldn't be surprised if not due to all the arguments here about every little thing that has been said by them.

We just need to trust and look forward to a new TFs movie that will kick afterburners.

[A_U_T_O_B_O_T]

We all need to understand that this movie needs to make money. Bottom line. Hollywood is not going to just allow to have a movie made for only us the fanbase. Has to be so big that the first weekend it opens screams "make a sequel" with money. And it sounds like Bay is planning on making sequels.

I think we need to trust Bay, Spielberg, Don and company with what they are doing. Another bottom line.

Money is an issue, but they also need to see that a portion of that will come from the TransFans. If they want to make a blockbuster they need to help it to appeal to everyone, I just hope that works out. It's also hard to trust Bay when he hasen't released anything big or remotely spectacular at all (ie. The Island).

G1 is great cause it started it all for a great many of us. Its why we have Armada, Beast Wars, Energon and all the others. But we have to get past that G1 is the end-all of all things. If you look, Hasbro has been listening to us as well by giving us updated toys of classic G1 characters like Energon Galvatron, Rodimus, Arcee and Alpha Q to just name a few off hand. Perhaps this will be the same with the movie.

TFs needs some updating since it was originally released in the 80's. We no longer have boom boxes.

With the newer series of Transformers it just seems to be declining very slowly in quality from the early G1 until Cyberton. In these days it seems more of a "Power Rangers" style of cartoon which isn't interesting because they seem to be using an idea from a different show (like Prime connecting with different vehicles in Energon). If they plan on using more of an updated style like Cybertron I would be scared that they could go overboard and turn this into a distaster which believe me I don't want to see being a TF fan. What I mean is if they make this so much oriented in the present style of Transformers it could be just a combanation of all the TF series smushed into a blender and having it turned on high. I just hope that Michael Bay doesn't turn this into a The Island 2.

[Cheetatron]

I just hope that Michael Bay doesn't turn this into a The Island 2.Most of bays movies are a financial success. You would know this if you decided to look into things as opposed to just over-react and over state the buying power of tf enthusiats and the hardcore element.

[swarlock]

It's really a shame that hollywood still hasn't learned that big name stars do not equal blockbusters.

Agreed here. Especially if they don't know anything about the role they are playing. But I digress.

[swarlock]

My major concern is that the writers and creators of the upcoming Transformers film arent as familiar with the original material. I am unsure that they understand what is good about it.

It helps a lot if the writers learned a little more on the subject.

But I know Hollywood people too well for them to get it completely right.

Just my two cents.

[Akumaxv]

Well, I don't see why anyone is surprised. We all knew from the beginning that they were going to make the movie THEY want.

It feels to me like this is more of an warning to the fandom, that things are going to turn out very different from what we had hoped. The fact that they think they should start over with "our own mythology" really worries me.

They might as well call this movie "Giant Shape Changing Robots from Outerspace that COULD be Transformers, but Aren't".

Even with all the incarnations of Prime, RID/A/E/C, you still knew it was Prime. It still felt like Prime. He was a huge truck. Sounds like they'd be happy just making him a Honda Element. I mean, that's a type of truck, right?

Hell, I can live with changes. It's absolutely necessary. It's 2006, not 1986. I'm a diehard G1er, but even I can recognize the need for change. I can live with that. I can even live with the no Cullen/Welker thing. =(

But if they're going to make it so re-booted that it barely resembles what the source material is, then no thanks.

I don't know.

Anyone remember the Street Fighter movie? Remember when Ryu "throws" a fireball, and it's just the screen flashing white? Why do I get the feeling we're going to get that? I mean, a much more expensive, flashier flash, but pretty much something as lame as that.

Here's hoping they prove me and the rest of us pessimists wrong.

[Akumaxv]

P.S. I Barely visit the DM boards, but when I do, does anyone else feel there is entirely too much a$$ kissing going on there? I mean Jesus, it's embarrassing.